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teaching local literature (Read 7799 times)
freediver
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teaching local literature
Sep 29th, 2008 at 3:50pm
 
There has been a lot of coverage in the press recently about a move for Australian English classes to teach more local literature. This was opposed by teaching unions.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/letters/index.php/theaustralian/comments/we_must_differentiate_cultural_cringe_and_celebration

We must differentiate cultural cringe and celebration

THE oh-so-postmodern position of the English Teachers Association of NSW in opposing affirmative action for the study of Australian literature in high schools is disappointing to publishers who place their houses on the line in order to invest in publishing Australian writers, and to parents who might like to encourage their children to contemplate earning an income through a literary life in this country ("Teachers oppose our literature”, 17/9).

The problem with such an anti-parochial or anti-cultural-cringe approach is that other cultures do not necessarily follow suit. We also need to differentiate between cultural cringe and celebration. The Canadians, Irish, Welsh, Dutch, Japanese and French (to name a few) have been brilliant at supporting, cultivating and celebrating their own literary (and farming) economies through education, proud promotion, and, dare we say it, protection of local culture (and agriculture).

What is wrong with encouraging a healthy appetite for local stories, and local produce, in order to keep local production sustainable? Are those teachers not otherwise telling the aspiring authors amongst their students that if they want to be read by their fellow Australians, they must first of all make it on the global stage?

Stephanie Johnston

Director, Wakefield Press

Kent Town, SA



IT is regrettable that English teachers, of all people, should oppose strengthening the teaching of Australian literature in NSW schools. Australian literature deserves to be taught not least because it is recognised internationally for its excellence. The classic works of Australian literature are more complex than the ETA assumes, both representing and provoking a range of views and responses, while debates around the canon itself form a diverse social history.

The NSW Board of Studies’ List of Prescribed Texts for 2009-12 includes around one-third Australian content. On the face of it this seems reasonable, but the optional nature of the curriculum means that students encounter far less Australian material than these potentially available choices indicate. Australian literature has always had to fight for its place in the English curriculum in both schools and universities. Now and in the future it requires as much advocacy as at any other time in its history.

Robert Dixon

Professor of Australian Literature

University of Sydney

AT no point in the response to the NSW Board of Studies’ consultation did the ETA oppose increasing the study of Australian literature. Indeed, in its response, the ETA suggested five ways in which Australian literature could be strengthened in the syllabus for all students, rather than the handful that the board was targeting.

What the ETA disputes is how the Board of Studies proposes to increase the amount studied. The structures for the increase do not sit well with the learning design of the syllabus and isolate Australian print literature from other Australian literary texts such as drama and film. In fact, they also isolate Australian literature from the literature of other countries and other times. If we are truly to value the literature of our own people, we need to read it as integrated with the whole world of ideas, not a disconnected unit.

Eva Gold

Executive Officer, English Teachers

Association of NSW, Leichhardt, NSW

IN its apparent contempt for the study of Australian literature in schools, the English Teachers Association of NSW has sounded a new depth of cultural cringe. I can’t think of another place in the world where studying the literature of your own country can be portrayed as reprehensible because it “confers superiority” to that literature as opposed to others (as if the ETA knows anything at all about other countries’ literature in any case, any more than they do about their own).

Using that kind of cock-eyed criterion, Kevin Rudd must have erred gravely this last week in awarding the Prime Minister’s Prize for Literature to two Australian writers, and not have made it a global prize.

Not to speak of the fact that, shock, horror, he did not award such a literature prize to other “texts”, such as websites, advertisements, SMS messages, TV shows or whatever.

Sophie Masson

Invergowrie, NSW

THE “cultural cringe” was a term coined by A.A. Phillips in 1950 to describe a common, colonial assumption that white Australian culture was necessarily inferior to European cultures because it had a relatively short history. Ironically, this cringe now threatens to return in the new guise of its opposite: a modish promotion of the global. Teaching Australian literature should be limited, argues the ETA, because it will promote insularity, a lack of confidence about the place of Australian achievement in world literature.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #1 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 4:53pm
 
Of course having My Brother Jack (amongst other Australian novels) shoved down my throat at high school did not endear me to Australian literature.

And I was a big reader as a kid and adult. Of the 1000+ books I have read, MBJ was one of the few to defeat me. I could not finish it. I would have happily drowned the main character.

The only reason I gave Bryce Courtney a go was because I had heard that Fagan was a character in one of his books.

I have to say that the novels I read are predominately fantasy, horror, military or SciFi. 2/3 of what I read is NF. I usually try to read the best authors. I don't care about borders. If none of the best authors are ozzies, I don't care. I also generally avoid female authors like the plague. Simply they don't often write anything I am interested in. Julian May is OK, and Anne Rice wasn't bad except for being too long winded sometimes and a preoccupation for homosexuality in the sophisticated male. Good grief Cheesy

I would be obliged for a suggestion for a good Patrick White novel. I would be pleased to give him a go. But MBJ was for me, complete poo.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #2 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 4:59pm
 
I am open to suggestions, and I do not have a large experience base for Australian literature but can anyone suggest an Aussie book as good as

Catch 22
One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest
Dune
Tomas Covenant
Ender's Game
The Fountainhead
A Christmas Carrol
Moby Dick
Don Quixote
Oliver Twist
The Illiad
Frankenstein
Les Miserables
Songs of Distant Earth
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
Johnathan Livingstone Seagull

etc etc

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:06pm
 
I'd suggest "Cloudstreet" and "Dirt Music" (both by Tim Winton).
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #4 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:09pm
 
I really enjoyed 'Tomorrow When the War Began'. I read the whole series, something like 7 books. I can't think of any other Australian authors I have enjoyed. Being such a small country, I guess we can't expect a lot of great literature. There's only so many books you can force kids to read.

I had to read 'To Kill a Mockingbird' in school. That was a great book.

EDIT -  that guy from Brisbane is also really good, but I don't think his books would be suitable for schools.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #5 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:16pm
 
Eleanor Dark's 'Timeless Land' was my Waterloo at Junior High School.

I would rather have had root canal treatment.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:42pm
 
yes, to kill a mockingbird is a great favourite, read it many times. one of the first books I reread after leaving school. I also have great respect for Colleen McCullock. her rome books are incredibly well researhed. I like george martin's fantasy stuff as well.

tim winton is well respected but I have no idea what his stuff is about.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #7 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:24pm
 
Literature local or otherwise should be optional subject as it is irrelevant for majority of kids who grow to be adults.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #8 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:42pm
 
You don't get optional English subjects in high school.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:42pm:
You don't get optional English subjects in high school.



And that is the problem. Local vs global is just a jockeys elbowing for attention and money allocation.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #10 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:52pm
 
You think there should be additional optional classes?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #11 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:00pm
 
'Matthew Flinder's Cat' by Bryce Courtenay. It's even set in Australia. Great read.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #12 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:05pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:52pm:
You think there should be additional optional classes?


Literature should not be compulsory.

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #13 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:14pm
 
easel wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:00pm:
'Matthew Flinder's Cat' by Bryce Courtenay. It's even set in Australia. Great read.

I heard Courtenay discussing how he researched that book. He literally walked and crawled around parts of Sydney as a cat might, ultimately having to hire a Maori bouncer to protect him strung out junkies.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #14 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:21pm
 
What about English in general? Should it be optional, or should the compulsory bits focus only on grammar and punctuation?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #15 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:21pm
 
It's about a former rich guy who goes homeless intentionally to escape his demons, make friends with some kid whose mother is a prostitute/junky and brings down a pedophile ring.

The cat part isn't even about a cat in Sydney. It's fiction about a cat on Matthew Flinders' boat/ship who saves the day and kills rats which he (the homeless guy) tells to the kid to entertain him.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #16 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:36pm
 
easel wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:21pm:
It's about a former rich guy who goes homeless intentionally to escape his demons, make friends with some kid whose mother is a prostitute/junky and brings down a pedophile ring.

The cat part isn't even about a cat in Sydney. It's fiction about a cat on Matthew Flinders' boat/ship who saves the day and kills rats which he (the homeless guy) tells to the kid to entertain him.

I guess that's one for Courtenay to know what depth he gave to his characters by crawling round seedy parts of Sydney.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #17 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:56pm
 
Maybe he was trying to be a homeless guy and not a cat?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #18 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 8:04pm
 
easel wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:56pm:
Maybe he was trying to be a homeless guy and not a cat?

Maybe. Doesn't explain why he said he crawled around Sydney to see it from a cat's point of view, unless he was developing the character of the homeless guy as a cat.

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #19 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 8:16pm
 
Maybe he meant he did a pub crawl while all dressed up looking for loose women, like the cat on Red Dwarf.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #20 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 8:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 8:16pm:
Maybe he meant he did a pub crawl while all dressed up looking for loose women, like the cat on Red Dwarf.

Could be. Nice cover too.
"I'm not procuring, officer... I'm developing a character... I'm doing it for art... "
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #21 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:38am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 7:21pm:
What about English in general? Should it be optional, or should the compulsory bits focus only on grammar and punctuation?



IMHO, for the most people most of their lives grammar and punctuation are practically fairly important the same as ability to do simple counting therefore they should be compulsory.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #22 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:41am
 
So compulsory English should be limited to grammar, punctuation and spelling?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #23 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:58am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:41am:
So compulsory English should be limited to grammar, punctuation and spelling?


Do you need anything else to write and read manuals, job applications, b-letters, notes and all that other staff that majority of people use during their lives?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #24 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 10:46am
 
No, but it is also possible to get by without calculus, physics, chemistry, biology, history, art, sport, home economics, manual arts. An education is not supposed to limit you, it is supposed to broaden your horizons. There is more to life than filling out a dole application.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #25 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 7:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 10:46am:
No, but it is also possible to get by without calculus, physics, chemistry, biology, history, art, sport, home economics, manual arts. An education is not supposed to limit you, it is supposed to broaden your horizons. There is more to life than filling out a dole application.


How giving people options to choose from limits their horizons?
IMHO, giving them no choice is more limiting.


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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #26 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 7:26pm
 
We do not give our children the option of not going to school, because we know that forcing them to go (limiting their choices) broadens their horizons.

As for adding extra classes, that is partly an issue of cost, and partly to do with lack of need. You give students far more choice at university because they specialise. Primary and most of secondary school is for giving a basic introduction to a wide variety of topics. There's no point giving students lots of options to choose from while they still don't understand the basics.

In my high school, English was split into two streams for grade 11 and 12. One stream was more classical, and I think the other was more practical, though I'm not sure to what extent.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #27 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 7:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 7:26pm:
We do not give our children the option of not going to school, because we know that forcing them to go (limiting their choices) broadens their horizons.

As for adding extra classes, that is partly an issue of cost, ...


That is wrong. Most of people force children to schools because they don't have time to look after them while working or killing time otherwise.

As for costs... when there is no compulsory spending cost are down.



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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #28 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:02pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 7:41pm:
That is wrong. Most of people force children to schools because they don't have time to look after them while working or killing time otherwise.



Of course...it has nothing to do with wanting their children to have an education.  Roll Eyes
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #29 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:41am:
So compulsory English should be limited to grammar, punctuation and spelling?



Not limited to, but great emphasis put upon them. 

Show me a Qld. Baby Boomer who can't write.

Reading, and also 'riting and 'rithmatic........[that'd be the 'three rs.'..........] drummed into us, by Year 8.  Smatterings of history, geography and social studies also thrown into the mix.

(Amazes me that I know more about British ....especially Raj.... history, and their geography than my Pommie neighbours.....and my knowledge of both is founded in what I was taught pre Senior Grades.)

Years 9 to 12 built upon those solid foundations.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #30 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:15pm
 
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:02pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 7:41pm:
That is wrong. Most of people force children to schools because they don't have time to look after them while working or killing time otherwise.



Of course...it has nothing to do with wanting their children to have an education.  Roll Eyes



What is "an education"?

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #31 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:26pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:15pm:
What is "an education"?



huh? Are you fair dinkum?

ok..now I'm convinced you are a bit slow, so I won't make fun of you anymore. Apologies for my previous posts.

An education is why people go to school. They go to learn...'educate' themselves.

Do you understand the term 'learn'?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #32 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:31pm
 
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:26pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:15pm:
What is "an education"?



huh? Are you fair dinkum?

ok..now I'm convinced you are a bit slow, so I won't make fun of you anymore. Apologies for my previous posts.

An education is why people go to school. They go to learn...'educate' themselves.

Do you understand the term 'learn'?


Are you a Muslim or can you give me a definition of education?



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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #33 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:34pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:31pm:
Are you a Muslim or can you give me a definition of education?



err..ok.....




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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #34 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:41pm
 
What is "an education"?

…..asked tallowood’


In reply, I offer tallowood’s own Posts:


Quote:
Literature local or otherwise should be optional subject as it is irrelevant for majority of kids who grow to be adults.


Quote:
And that is the problem. Local vs global is just a jockeys elbowing for attention and money allocation.


Quote:
IMHO, for the most people most of their lives grammar and punctuation are practically fairly important the same as ability to do simple counting therefore they should be compulsory.

 
Quote:
Do you need anything else to write and read manuals, job applications, b-letters, notes and all that other staff that majority of people use during their lives?


Quote:
How giving people options to choose from limits their horizons?
IMHO, giving them no choice is more limiting.


Quote:
That is wrong. Most of people force children to schools because they don't have time to look after them while working or killing time otherwise.

As for costs... when there is no compulsory spending cost are down.


Betty Stewart (my Years’s English teacher) would have a heart attack!



An apology in advance……if English is not the first language of your parents, tallowood.

I reckon it’s not, but you, I suspect, were born here and yet you still have the grammar of an alien.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #35 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:42pm
 
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:34pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:31pm:
Are you a Muslim or can you give me a definition of education?



err..ok.....


a definition of education according to Mohamed or to the Laden?

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #36 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:44pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:42pm:
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:34pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:31pm:
Are you a Muslim or can you give me a definition of education?



err..ok.....


  a definition of education according to Mohamed or to the Laden?




Aussie..as you can see from his post above...I suspect that grammar is not his only problem.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #37 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:47pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:41pm:
What is "an education"?

…..asked tallowood’


In reply, I offer tallowood’s own Posts:


Quote:
Literature local or otherwise should be optional subject as it is irrelevant for majority of kids who grow to be adults.


Quote:
And that is the problem. Local vs global is just a jockeys elbowing for attention and money allocation.


Quote:
IMHO, for the most people most of their lives grammar and punctuation are practically fairly important the same as ability to do simple counting therefore they should be compulsory.

 
Quote:
Do you need anything else to write and read manuals, job applications, b-letters, notes and all that other staff that majority of people use during their lives?


Quote:
How giving people options to choose from limits their horizons?
IMHO, giving them no choice is more limiting.


Quote:
That is wrong. Most of people force children to schools because they don't have time to look after them while working or killing time otherwise.

As for costs... when there is no compulsory spending cost are down.


Betty Stewart (my Years’s English teacher) would have a heart attack!



An apology in advance……if English is not the first language of your parents, tallowood.

I reckon it’s not, but you, I suspect, were born here and yet you still have the grammar of an alien.



Aussie, how that all has to do with compulsory literature?

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #38 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:48pm
 
Quote:
Aussie, how that all has to do with compulsory literature?


.......answers your own question.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #39 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:51pm
 
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:44pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:42pm:
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:34pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:31pm:
Are you a Muslim or can you give me a definition of education?



err..ok.....


 a definition of education according to Mohamed or to the Laden?




Aussie..as you can see from his post above...I suspect that grammar is not his only problem.


Hey, I don't have the problem to be brainless Moslem who can not give a definition of an education beyond of stupid Mohamed's mumble as you admitted it yourself.

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #40 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:51pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:48pm:
Quote:
Aussie, how that all has to do with compulsory literature?


.......answers your own question.


Grin Grin Grin
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #41 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:55pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:51pm:
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:44pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:42pm:
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:34pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:31pm:
Are you a Muslim or can you give me a definition of education?



err..ok.....


 a definition of education according to Mohamed or to the Laden?




Aussie..as you can see from his post above...I suspect that grammar is not his only problem.


Hey, I don't have the problem to be brainless Moslem who can not give a definition of an education beyond of stupid Mohamed's mumble as you admitted it yourself.



errr...ok.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #42 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:55pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:51pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:48pm:
Quote:
Aussie, how that all has to do with compulsory literature?


.......answers your own question.


Grin Grin Grin


He's laughing at you...not with you.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #43 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:58pm
 
Quote:
He's laughing at you...not with you.


Do you think I give a flying ferk, either way?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #44 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:00pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:58pm:
Quote:
He's laughing at you...not with you.


Do you think I give a flying ferk, either way?


I was replying to Talowood...not you.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #45 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:05pm
 
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:55pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:51pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 8:48pm:
Quote:
Aussie, how that all has to do with compulsory literature?


.......answers your own question.


Grin Grin Grin


He's laughing at you...not with you.


I am  laughing at Moslem because you are their representative here.

Are you really proper Moslem or just trying to misrepresent them?

In case if you are trying to misrepresent them my apologies to Moslem. Is Lestat really just a Moslem hater and provoker?

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #46 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:06pm
 
Quote:
I was replying to Talowood...not you.


Apologies......it seems I have inadvertently involved myself in a domestic.

Do carry on.

Cool
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #47 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:08pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:06pm:
Quote:
I was replying to Talowood...not you.


Apologies......it seems I have inadvertently involved myself in a domestic.

Do carry on.

Cool


No problems...I too am trying to get out of this twighlight zone I have found myself in.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #48 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:06pm:
Quote:
I was replying to Talowood...not you.


Apologies......it seems I have inadvertently involved myself in a domestic.

Do carry on.

Cool


It is not a capital t and double ll.
I suppose they don't grow in Queensland?


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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #49 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:17pm
 
Lestat wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:08pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 1st, 2008 at 9:06pm:
Quote:
I was replying to Talowood...not you.


Apologies......it seems I have inadvertently involved myself in a domestic.

Do carry on.

Cool


No problems...I too am trying to get out of this twighlight zone I have found myself in.


You created the zone as a provocation.

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #50 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 9:21am
 
Education encompasses both the teaching and learning of knowledge, proper conduct, and technical competency. It thus focuses on the cultivation of skills, trades or professions, as well as mental, moral & aesthetic development (Wikipedia)

Reading should be a compulsory activity at school, but with broad choices. At primary level they should be especially broad and gradually moving toward the more complex and meaningful literature as levels of education rise. Many children will develop more complex tastes on their own, some need to be encouraged. Start kids with comics I reckon. I still read comics and MAD . It is not unusual for my backpack to have in it History of the Peloponesian War and a Silver Surfer trade paperback and a magazine on organic gardening.

The classics are chosen for a reason, often very good ones. If you read nothing other than the complete works of Skakespeare then I would have to say you have read the very best. An author who covers with incredible insight human psychology and the human condition, who covers ethics and consequences, racism and mercy, love and villany. But kids usually don't see much value in Shakespeare and this has a lot to do with the choice of play we are introduced to. On first introduction I hated Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet. Who wants to read all that flowery language. etc etc teenage boy attitude even though I was a reader. Now when we did Julius Caeser and Henry V that change completely and I went on to read many of his other plays. There are more appropriate quotes from Shakespeare to suit the multitude of everyday situations than any other body of work ever written.

There is also another Australian book that should be compulsory reading and that is Albert Facey's " A Fortunate Life". A book that moved me tremendously (I normally hate biographies or autobiographies unless they are about military persons). It is written so simply but with such elequant honesty that you are left wishing you could have met him and thanked him for sharing. After all his loss and heartbreak when he finishes is story with how lucky he counts himself, I can't help but seek a silent place for a short while.

These are the types of works that are IMPORTANT to broaden the individuals world view, to let them know that they are not alone, to appreciate the empathatic sharing of experience, and be invited to the community man beyond their own family predjudes'.

We have all met the person who boasts how they have never read a book in their life. My immediate internal comment is usually along the lines of "Yeah, and it shows dickhead", you just know that these are the people that have formed a world view in their teenage years and will have that same world view when they are old men or women. Only ever collecting the events that reinforce that view, never the ones that broaden it.


However, in terms of education, don't get me started on why universities should not be offering business degrees. I'm old school and think university should be about improving humanity and the world, not exploiting it. It's an attitude not popular with many of my friends.


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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #51 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 9:44am
 
I agree with you to some extent on universities. While those degrees should be available, undergrads should be required to do at least a couple of subjects from different areas. You shouldn't be able to get an undergrad degree without having done at least one economics subject in high school or university. It should be more like the American system.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #52 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:18am
 
Yes FD, I think along with citizenship education at high school as a compulsory subject, economics should also be a compulsory subject at some point. At least macro economics as a single semester for junior and then again and more advanced for senior and undergrade would be a good idea. I think logic/critical reasoning would also be a huge benefit to everyone regardless of whether they continue to further education.

Macro Ec. is a subject that I wish I knew more about. Especially when I just know some pollie or captain of industry is full of BS, but I don't have the background knowledge to pinpoint the lie/s.

If anyone can recommend a pedestrian or basic introductory book on macro economics I would appreciate it.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #53 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:22am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2008 at 9:44am:
It should be more like the American system.


I don't know how the American system works, but I am curious. Can you explain further. The sensible stuff of course.

Grin GrinDon't worry about the learning Klingon, University of California I believe.  Cheesy Good grief.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #54 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:45am
 
I spent a year at UCSD. The university was divided into 5 colleges. Which college you signed up through affected how many extra subjects you had to do and from which academic area. I don't see any need to recreate that in any detail, just the basic concept of a broader education.

An undergraduate degree should be seen as more than training for a 'trade' (eg medicine, engineering, accounting etc). There is too much focus on delivering what future employers want and not enough on what is good for the community as a whole.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #55 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 12:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:45am:
  There is too much focus on delivering what future employers want and not enough on what is good for the community as a whole.


I agree completely. I have a mate who has an employment philosophy that works very well for him.

Employ for attitude and train for skill. If you have what it takes then he will invest in the training. If you have the skill and the experience all the better but it is not necessary.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #56 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8:21pm
 
locutius wrote on Oct 2nd, 2008 at 12:07pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:45am:
 There is too much focus on delivering what future employers want and not enough on what is good for the community as a whole.


I agree completely. I have a mate who has an employment philosophy that works very well for him.

Employ for attitude and train for skill. If you have what it takes then he will invest in the training. If you have the skill and the experience all the better but it is not necessary.


I think that attitude is not enough. For example someone wants to be a mathematician but but despite of years of training he or she will never become one unless the person have an aptitude for such a vocational call.

But anyway, back to topic. If your child needs a microsurgery to save his or her life would you trust a person who'd read so many wonderful fiction novels and even had written some him/herself or would you prefer a person who studied medicine but never read or write any so call non technical literature and who is specialist in microsurgery?




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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #57 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 9:16pm
 
I would prefer the doctor who lead a balanced life the the one with the mid life crisis. Both as a surgeon and as a neighbour and fellow citizen.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #58 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:50am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2008 at 9:16pm:
I would prefer the doctor who lead a balanced life the the one with the mid life crisis. Both as a surgeon and as a neighbour and fellow citizen.


I would prefer a specialist who concentrates at his job rather then distractions of a fiction.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #59 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:05am
 
Having a balanced education does not make it harder to concentrate on your job. Do you think the only thing that doctors think about is what they learnt when they were back in school?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #60 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:12am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:05am:
Having a balanced education does not make it harder to concentrate on your job. Do you think the only thing that doctors think about is what they learnt when they were back in school?


Having study local or otherwise literature at school doesn't make doctors job better that is sure but there is small possibility that if he or she spent more time doing more professional study rather then something else he or she would be better professional.


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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #61 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:43am
 
The point is not to make doctors better at being doctors, the point is to make them better at being citizens. If our society was made up of doctors who only know medicine, engineers who only know physics, accountants who only knew accounting, plumbers who only knew pipes, our society would not function.

A doctor is still not going to become a brain surgeon until he knows enough to do the job well.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #62 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:56am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:43am:
The point is not to make doctors better at being doctors, the point is to make them better at being citizens. If our society was made up of doctors who only know medicine, engineers who only know physics, accountants who only knew accounting, plumbers who only knew pipes, our society would not function.

A doctor is still not going to become a brain surgeon until he knows enough to do the job well.


The bricklayer who worked on my house did not know works of Banjo Paterson or Henry Lawson but he was a good bricklayer and a good Australian citizen. He also liked fishing but that was option he had chosen and wasn't coerced into. As matter of fact there are many examples of when a state using coercion to force something on its people the quality of citizenship is lower then in states where freedom of choice is the standard.




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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #63 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:36am
 
As matter of fact there are many examples of when a state using coercion to force something on its people the quality of citizenship is lower then in states where freedom of choice is the standard.

Is education one of thsoe examples?
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #64 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:36am:
As matter of fact there are many examples of when a state using coercion to force something on its people the quality of citizenship is lower then in states where freedom of choice is the standard.

Is education one of thsoe examples?


Some of education are.
Would you want to have religion/ideology as compulsory subjects in schools for the sake of creating uniform citizenry? They did and do have this in some countries.

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #65 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:30pm
 
Religion should obviously not be compulsory. While literature should be, it should not be uniform. There are plenty of great books out there to choose from. Economics should be fairly uniform, though I would be happy if some people did macro, some did micro, and some did a crash course in both. History is a bit more difficult because there is no obvious 'introduction' to it, but the rise of Nazism is dense with important lessons.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #66 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:30pm:
Religion should obviously not be compulsory. While literature should be, it should not be uniform. There are plenty of great books out there to choose from. Economics should be fairly uniform, though I would be happy if some people did macro, some did micro, and some did a crash course in both. History is a bit more difficult because there is no obvious 'introduction' to it, but the rise of Nazism is dense with important lessons.


Bible, Koran, Talmud, Vedas, Des Kapital, Main Kampf, Life of Lenin, etc., etc., etc., are literary works of fiction and they should not be compulsory subjects of study to anyone but they also should not be prohibited as optional study.

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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #67 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:22pm
 
From a literary perspective none of them are especially good.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #68 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 10:04am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:22pm:
From a literary perspective none of them are especially good.


Some people think that some parts of some of these books have a great literary merits especially from historical perspective of literature. But of course literature is not science and individual opinion  is just the opinion of an individual. That's is another reason why study of literature should not be compulsory.
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Grammar to make a classroom comeback
Reply #69 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 2:19pm
 
Grammar to make a classroom comeback in national English curriculum

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24508917-601,00.html

GRAMMAR will return to the classroom under the national English curriculum, along with punctuation, spelling, pronunciation and phonics, for all students from the first years of school.

The draft curriculum, to be released today by the National Curriculum Board, is unequivocal in including the explicit teaching of the basic structures of the English language.

But the draft retains the teaching of critical literacy, a sociological model analysing gender, race and class in literature to expose inherent prejudices and agendas.

The draft places literature as one of the three fundamental elements of an English course, along with language and literacy, and defines literary texts so as to include "multimodal texts".

The draft English curriculum was written by Sydney University education professor Peter Freebody, a literacy expert whose appointment was initially criticised for his lack of academic background in literature and championing of controversial views on literacy.

Professor Freebody said the curriculum stiffened the intellectual underpinning of the English curriculum by putting at its centre the three elements of learning about language, literature and literacy, or how to use language.
School English courses have been hotly debated in recent years, including the teaching of reading, the study of print literature, the use of critical literacy in analysing literature, and teaching the basic structures of the language such as grammar.

The draft addresses the debates, saying the "explicit teaching of decoding, spelling and other aspects of the basic codes of written English will be an important and routine aspect" of the curriculum. The draft says critical literacy is the analysis of texts in terms of "their potential philosophical, political or ideological assumptions and content".

"The (curriculum) will need to consider, at different stages of schooling, what emphasis is required to support young people to increase their sophisticated understandings of how to interpret texts, how they can be constructed and evaluated, and how their effects on us result from the features of the texts themselves and from the personal, social and cultural conditions in which they are used," it says.

Professor Freebody said critical literacy should not occupy a big part of the curriculum, but it had a role in enabling students to protect themselves against propaganda and being manipulated.

"Language isn't always innocent," he said.

"For the most part, what kids will learn when they encounter literary text is its aesthetic value and that it is cherished."

Professor Freebody said asking students to write Marxist, racist and feminist readings of a work such as Othello was "nonsensical". "It's a gratuitous notion that kids know enough about Marxism to do it, even if it was useful, which it isn't," he said.

"It's an example of bad practice by people trying to pursue this agenda of having kids analyse texts' underlying philosophical, moral, ideological and political issues, and this curriculum wouldn't endorse it."

The first key element of the curriculum is knowledge of English, covering strategies in learning to read and write.

"The explicit and systematic teaching of sound-script correspondences is important," it says. The draft says a quarter of school students learn English as an additional language, so the curriculum had to focus on the teaching of the basics.

"A focus on grammar, spelling strategies and conventions of punctuation will be necessary across all stages of schooling," it says. "This commitment includes traditional word- and sentence-level grammar, text-level grammar that teaches text types and patterns, and the functional relations between these levels."

Teaching grammar was deemed unnecessary, and was removed from curriculums in the 1970s, and while it has been creeping back in some schools and states, its teaching remains patchy. Some universities now offer first-year courses in writing, teaching the basics of grammar and sentence construction, to give students the skills they lack.

Perth teacher John Hancock has yearned for grammar to be a subject in its own right for the eight years he has been teaching high school. "We're dealing with grammar problems as they arise," Mr Hancock, from Helena College, said yesterday.

"It's assumed that because people converse in English, they have mastered the rudiments of communication. These rudiments can be easily forgotten."

An informed appreciation of literature is the second element of the draft curriculum, which is teaching students the aesthetic value of literary texts and that they are cherished.

The draft says Australian literary works should be a core element, with literature a fundamental part of the curriculum at every stage.

The third element focuses on learning to use language, from speaking English to writing it or using it in multimodal texts.



Literacy, numeracy and now 'visuacy' for schools

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1218775943

SCHOOL students should study Picasso alongside pictures of Elle Macpherson's underwear as part of a recasting of visual arts education away from traditional forms to include images of all kinds.
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Re: teaching local literature
Reply #70 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 3:34pm
 
wtf? U don't need grammar. Its 2 l8 fr that. Grin
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