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I don't translate it as anything. I'm simply pointing out the word Aalim (which is what a learned Muslim, who has degrees from Islamic universities is called) is actually translated as Scientist. Goto google translator and type in Scientist, it'll spit back Aalim for you. You can accept, reject, other... thats just how it is.

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As does the Arabic noun علم (ilm) of which عالم (Aalim) is the active participle. This is what I'm trying to get across to you, you have a distinction between the words science and knowledge, but for many other cultures/languages they're just the same thing, and you must recognise your word 'science' is just the result of a slight semantic drift from knowledge, ever so slight, that most other cultures don't draw the distinction, yet still understand the exact same concepts. In Arabic for instance علم الإجتمعية (ilm al-ijtimaa'eyah) is translated as "Social Science", but would also be translated quite literally as "Knowledge of those things pertaining to societies".

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That's funny, I thought they were usually labeled heretics/witches/sorcerers etc. and burnt at the stake...

I don't translate it as anything. I'm simply pointing out the word Aalim (which is what a learned Muslim, who has degrees from Islamic universities is called) is actually translated as Scientist.

So someone else made the mistake - but the point still holds.

Goto google translator and type in Scientist, it'll spit back Aalim for you.

That doesn't mean that Aalim should always be translated back to science.

That's funny, I thought they were usually labeled heretics/witches/sorcerers etc. and burnt at the stake...

Some were, but the vast majority weren't. People tend to overplay the conflict (sound familiar?). Many famous early European scientists were Christians who sought to 'know God' through his work. Many historians credit this with 'igniting' the scientific revolution, by motivating research over a long period with no obvious benefits to humanity, or the researchers themselves.

What's this about your thread being deleted from AM? FD had the same thing done to him.

Same thread. Soren had a few responses in it.

Are you claiming that there weren't scientists before Islam?

jordan,

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Is that what you understood from our discussion so far?

freediver,

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You're entitled to your opinion. As far as I'm aware you don't know much about the Arabic language, so I fail to see how you can make that call.

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The fact you consider the word wrong, without having even a rudimentary understanding of the language involved, indicates that you have a preconceived idea of where the word should fit in. Christianity and Judaism calls their men of knowledge 'Scholars' or 'Academics', they're religions, and so is  Islam, so Islam should also. Not very scientific of you.

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That list is amusing.

Russian Orthodox Communists? Jewish Atheists?

Mendel is about the only one I would consider to fit the bill, as he was a monk. I was thinking of him when you mentioned it, but couldn't think of anyone else who could possibly be included.

I also find it quite surprising that a list of the 100 most influential scientists, past and present only seems to have European/Judaeo-Christian scientists. Sounds like somebody who's trying to draw some conclusions about the relationship between Christianity and science.

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The Muslim scientists developed their fields quite extensively. That's rubbish. The simple fact is there were few European scientists of any note until the Renaissance, as Christianity receded scientific knowledge advanced (Yes I'm using your old signature jordan) as Christianity had been a stifling force that prevented people from studying scientific issues, and it seems you can't accept this wasn't the case under Islam for some reason... So you're attempting to claim pretty much the same conditions existed in Christian Europe, what a laugh.

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You certainly couldn't have learnt everything in a day that Muslim scientists did in their entire field.

I'm just curious which parts of the discussion led you to draw that conclusion, that's all. Don't wanna answer? It's ok

As far as I'm aware you don't know much about the Arabic language, so I fail to see how you can make that call.

It's the English language, and the definition of science that interests me. I trust you can explain the meaning of the Arabic word. I have not contradicted your explanation of what the Arab word means.

So you're attempting to claim pretty much the same conditions existed in Christian Europe, what a laugh.

No I'm not.