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Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch! (Read 12651 times)
bluebird
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Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Aug 12th, 2008 at 10:28pm
 
The Sheikh has written a letter to the Australian Governor General where he says that the Queen is less than a bitch, and that she doesn't really care about Australia's interests.

http://www.sheikhharon.com/announcements.html

My question is do you believe that Australia needs the Queen, does she benefit our country in anyway?

Since she is the Queen, should she be more involved with Australia?

Do you think Australia should become a republic?
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #1 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 1:31am
 
I think there was a thread where we discussed the definition of a Republic and whether Australia should become one. I'm pretty sure that it's in this board.

Any idea which thread, FD?
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Exotic Cheese
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #2 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 2:14am
 
bluebird wrote on Aug 12th, 2008 at 10:28pm:
The Sheikh has written a letter to the Australian Governor General where he says that the Queen is less than a bitch, and that she doesn't really care about Australia's interests.

http://www.sheikhharon.com/announcements.html

My question is do you believe that Australia needs the Queen, does she benefit our country in anyway?

Since she is the Queen, should she be more involved with Australia?

Do you think Australia should become a republic?


Royalty is a disgusting idea to begin...

So really all thats left is to acknowledge that Kings and Queens are forms of authoritarian domination from a bygone era and the roles for most countries, at least most western ones, that they play is purely ceremonial.

So to the questions...

She doesn't benefit anyone in anyway.
No.
Pseudo homage to a foreign queen V a reshaping of the already capitalist 'democratic' society = don't really care unless we are smacking them both off.
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #3 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 9:15am
 
Exotic Cheese wrote on Aug 13th, 2008 at 2:14am:
Pseudo homage to a foreign queen V a reshaping of the already capitalist 'democratic' society = don't really care unless we are smacking them both off.


Lol. You sound like a Communist.
Wink
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abu_rashid
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #4 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 10:04am
 
I've heard of suspicions before that this "Sheikh Haroon" guy is a hoax, probably perpetrated by anti-Muslim groups to incite hatred towards Islam, but after actually viewing the website, I think it is much clearer.

A few points about his website:

He's given the title "Australian Muslim Cleric", yet Muslims don't believe in any concept of a clergy, and it's only Western media outlets that normally refer to Islamic leaders as clerics, or perhaps occasionally apologetic government appointed groups who seek to use Western terminology to gain acceptance. But a 'fundamentalist extremist muslim leader' would never use the term cleric to refer to himself.

Also the term cleric is usually applied to Shi'a/Iranian religious leaders, and this is claimed on the website:

"The Australian Muslim Cleric, Sheikh Haron, is the same Ayatollah Manteghi Boroujerdi who has formally changed his name and that's why some people were confused who was Sheikh Haron?"

The term Ayatollah is only ever used by Shi'ah leaders, and specifically Iranian ones. Yet Sheikh Haroon claims to be a supporter of "Imam Osama Bin Laden", whilst Iranian Shi'ah are diametrically opposed to him, due to the fact he follows the Salafi/Wahabi methdology which declares Shi'ah to be apostates.

Sounds very much like this website is produced by someone who has only a very brief understanding of Islam, and one that seems to mix and match media terminology in ways that doesn't make any sense at all.
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #5 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 3:05pm
 
The nrepublic thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1173182998

No, the Queen should not be more involved in Australia. Her role, limited as it is, requires her to be as detached as possible.
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #6 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 10:19pm
 
Exotic Cheese wrote on Aug 13th, 2008 at 2:14am:
Royalty is a disgusting idea to begin...

So really all thats left is to acknowledge that Kings and Queens are forms of authoritarian domination from a bygone era and the roles for most countries, at least most western ones, that they play is purely ceremonial.

So to the questions...

She doesn't benefit anyone in anyway.
No.
Pseudo homage to a foreign queen V a reshaping of the already capitalist 'democratic' society = don't really care unless we are smacking them both off.


Ditto Cool
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bluebird
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #7 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 11:37pm
 
Freediver- Thank you for the link. I will read through this. Its interesting how people's opinions differ.

I also believe that Australia will become a republic its just a matter of when. I also believe Australia will be better off.

Abu_rashid- I am interested in Islam and the Sheikh Haron website is one of the sites I go to. I have a question as you are quite knowledgable in Islam.
Why don't Muslims believe in any concept of clergy? Isn't a Sheikh a cleric also? If not, what is the difference?
Also, on the site I had a look at the about us, it states that they are non-sectarian Muslims, does that not mean they are not shiah and not sunni?

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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #8 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 12:25am
 
bluebird wrote on Aug 12th, 2008 at 10:28pm:
The Sheikh has written a letter to the Australian Governor General where he says that the Queen is less than a bitch, and that she doesn't really care about Australia's interests.

http://www.sheikhharon.com/announcements.html

My question is do you believe that Australia needs the Queen, does she benefit our country in anyway?

Since she is the Queen, should she be more involved with Australia?

Do you think Australia should become a republic?


My question is do you believe that Australia needs the Queen, does she benefit our country in anyway?

Short answer, No.

Since she is the Queen, should she be more involved with Australia?

A true Head of State should be intimately involved in the affairs of the nation and the sensibilities of its people, as QEII rightly is with the British state and people. As a faux (and foreign) Head of State of Australia her role falls far short of what a HOS should be to the nation.

Do you think Australia should become a republic?

Yes.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #9 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 7:23am
 
bluebird,

Quote:
Why don't Muslims believe in any concept of clergy?


In the Qur'an we are told about how the institution of a clergy led the religious communities before us (ie. the Jews & Christians) astray.

They have taken as lords beside God their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only one God. There is no God save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!


O ye who believe! Lo! many of the rabbis and the monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of God. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of God, unto them give tidings of a painful doom,


Quote:
Isn't a Sheikh a cleric also? If not, what is the difference?


A clergy is a specific religious class, who are supposed to be somehow holier than the 'laypeople'. In Islam all people are supposed to be religious I guess. The way I've always viewed it is that every Muslim should strive to be on the level of 'a religious class'. This is why we see every Muslim woman is required to cover herself, to the same degree that only the religious class in Catholicism for instance do (ie. nuns). Likewise any Muslim should be capable of performing a wedding or a burial or any other religious festivity/rite.

The word 'Sheikh' actually just means old man, there's really no significance for this word in Islam, apart from in developed traditions, but they have no legal standing in the Shari'ah. Likewise there is no special clothing for a clergy.

Quote:
Also, on the site I had a look at the about us, it states that they are non-sectarian Muslims, does that not mean they are not shiah and not sunni?


I have very strong doubts that it is even a legitimate Islamic website, as expressed above. A lot of things on the website just don't sound right. Most of the language used appears to be ripped straight out of media stories about Muslims. Also just about every single article on there, just seems aimed at inflaming Muslim/non-Muslim tensions. Add this to the fact nobody within the entire Australian Muslim Community has ever heard of "Sheikh Haroon", and it becomes very suspicious.
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #10 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 8:19am
 
Semantic garbage.
Cleric/Scholar?
Call it what you like, it is just another in the parade of mad muftis with spurious claims of being able to unlock the secrets of the mystery manuals.

While the sunnis do not have any hierarchical clerical system, the shia sect most certainly do.

It is strange how these two groups can vilify each other so vehemently, whilst claiming to be able to justify their behaviour from the exact same text.
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #11 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 9:59am
 
I'm a little divided on this issues.

Logically, realistically and practically HM the Queen serves no purpose to Australia. So, my brain tells me "A Republic! If you can keep it." However, my heart remains loyal to the Queen because of my family's tenuous link to the UK. Should the Queen abdicate or pass away, that link will be gone and I will be free of this personal bind.

Wink Wink
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #12 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 10:32am
 
mozzaok wrote on Aug 14th, 2008 at 8:19am:
Semantic garbage.
Cleric/Scholar?
Call it what you like, it is just another in the parade of mad muftis with spurious claims of being able to unlock the secrets of the mystery manuals.


You clearly have no idea what a 'cleric' is. I suggest you go out and do some reading before making yourself look foolish (once again I might add).
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #13 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 1:07pm
 
Is Grand Mufti a Shi'ia exclusive title? If not, are they considered to be a religious "elder" or (dare I say it) clergy (in the western sense)?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Sheikh Says Queen Is Less Than A Bitch!
Reply #14 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 3:09pm
 
Quote:
Is Grand Mufti a Shi'ia exclusive title?


Mufti means 'one capable of giving fatwa', but the term does not appear in any Islamic texts that I know of. I don't know if the Shi'a use it, but most 'Sunni' countries do use it as a term for government appointed scholars.
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