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Poll Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?

Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed    
  11 (55.0%)
Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops    
  4 (20.0%)
Something else    
  5 (25.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: freediver on: Oct 9th, 2014 at 12:43pm »

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Is Islam against free speech? (Read 158269 times)
freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #45 - Aug 6th, 2008 at 2:07pm
 
Because you can't explain it!

That doesn't any make sense Les.

And muslims aren't people?

Der.

Don't you really mean 'you can't just go attacking people willy nilly IF THEY AREN'T MUSLIM'.

Don't be silly.

No..there is not line, and if there is its a very faint line.

If you call everything an attack and fail to add any meaning to it, then of course it is impossible to draw a line. Of course, in reality it is possible to draw a line, fairly and rationally. You just won't get anywhere near it with you absurd posturing.

The fact that you state that religous bigotry is acceptable but religous discrimination is not...is really just a cop out.

Strawman. You can't just change the words like that and pretend it has the same meaning.

your argument is flip flopping all over the place

No it isn't. Your strawmen are.

You say its ok to criticise religous beliefs, yet to criticise jews is anti-semetic. You say that you can't criticise jews because they are people, but to criticise muslims is all fine and ok.

Another strawman. If you want to figure out where we draw the line, you will have to stop making us waste all our time correcting your simple errors. Here's a tip, try focussing on what people actually say, rather than what you think they say.
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mozzaok
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #46 - Aug 6th, 2008 at 2:20pm
 
See if you follow this lestat.

I am using an image, which displays my belief.

You will be free to challenge, or criticise that belief, do you understand?

[moderated: please re-read the forum guidelines, offensive image removed]
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« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2008 at 6:54pm by abu_rashid »  

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #47 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 3:08pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 12:28pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 12:12pm:
It is the fundamental rejection of western values like freedom of speech and freedom of religion that is the problem.

And as usual you have no evidence that mainstream islam in Australia has any problem with freedom of speech or freedom of religion.


Show me one Muslim leader speaking out in defense of people's right to depict and mock Muhammed.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #48 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 4:25pm
 
They do this by reminding their fellow muslims that such insults must be answered peacefully, and condemning violent reactions where it occurs. Which they do all the time.

http://www.nairaland.com/571546/when-someone-insults-islam-how
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #49 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 6:05pm
 
No single mention of rights or freedoms there. Merely quotes and examples from Muhammeds early days when he was in a position of weakness - that are regarded by mainstream Muslims as being abrogated. That page is consistent with the views of Muslims like Abu.

Saying not to take the law into your own hands is not the same as saying that people have a right to do these things and that you should actively defend that right. It is not surprising that the best example you could find does not even use the words rights or freedoms, because Islam is explicitly against such things.

How do you personally feel about the right of people to depict and mock Muhammed?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #50 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 6:16pm
 
Lestat wrote on Aug 6th, 2008 at 1:48pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 6th, 2008 at 1:33pm:
No-one is saying you can't criticse the Jewish religion Les.


So tell me once again...why is it a crime in many nations to deny the holocaust?


Because Holocaust denial is much, much more about rehabilitating Naziism and Fascism than it is about criticising Judaism.  Naziism and Fascism are considered by most people to be, because of The Holocaust, utterly beyond the pale.  A war in which millions died was fought  to defeat those political ideologies.   A great deal of emotion is tied up in considering it as a valid political ideology or not.   Unfortunately, in many countries which fought against Naziism and Fascism, there are some who seek to revive it and its persecution of the Jews.    Roll Eyes
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #51 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 7:25pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 4:25pm:


They do this by reminding their fellow muslims that such insults must be answered peacefully, and condemning violent reactions where it occurs.



Which they do all the time.

http://www.nairaland.com/571546/when-someone-insults-islam-how




...


gandalf,

QUESTION;
In your opinion, is the person [image above] entitled to express himself, in Australia, in the way that he is doing ???

IF NOT..... then why does he appear to be under the impression that it is OK ????

[......in the light of the moslem community, all the time, are reminding moslems to respect local customs .....
"They do this by reminding their fellow muslims that such insults must be answered peacefully, and condemning violent reactions where it occurs."
]


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #52 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 7:28pm
 
Yes.   Don't you believe in Freedom of Speech, Yadda?    Roll Eyes
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Yadda
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #53 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 7:32pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
Yes.   Don't you believe in Freedom of Speech, Yadda?    Roll Eyes



Brian, you are a moslem.


IMAGE....
...


Brian,

The image above is not demonstrating someone exercising Freedom of Speech, imo.

That image is demonstrating the act of incitement to murder,     ....imo!
.....which is a serious CRIME, here in Australia.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #54 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 8:05pm
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 7:32pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
Yes.   Don't you believe in Freedom of Speech, Yadda?    Roll Eyes



Brian, you are a moslem.


I am?  And on what evidence do you make that claim, except because of your well-known Islamophia?    Roll Eyes

What if I was?  Would you limit my Freedom of Speech, Yadda?   is "Freedom of Speech" reserved only for non-Muslims in your opinion?   Roll Eyes
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #55 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 8:54pm
 
Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Calanen
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #56 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:04pm
 
There is no free speech in Islam. There is the concept of 'slandering Islam' which is not the same as what we see slander as, but is the best translation. It basically means, saying anything bad about Islam, or holding it up to ridicule or criticism, anything negative, you are severely punished or killed.

In Islamic societies a woman does not even have the freedom to accuse her rapist of rape, without bringing four other male witnesses to support her story. If she does not, she will be charged with making a false accusation and with adultery for having sex outside of marriage even though raped. This was what happened to a young Australian bar tender in a hotel who was raped by her co-workers, she was sentenced to a term of imprisonment for daring to report what happened. That is Islam.

As a non-muslim in Islam, you must be a submissive second class citizen who must know their place. There was another case when an English architect in Dubai, frustrated with delays in construction said 'Why can't we build this bloody mosque?" and then he was arrested for saying 'bloody mosque.' If a local muslim accuses you of anything in an Islamic country look out - their word will always be believed over yours, because, an infidel has less weight in testimony than a believer.

The ultimate goal of Islamic peak bodies is to bring in the same thoughtcrime laws into the West preventing all criticism of Islam, as 'hate speech'. Wanna know about hate speech - in the Islamic world - criticism of jews and Israel is worse than the Third Reich on its worse day, almost never reported in the mainstream media. In Saudi Arabia, textbooks have entries where the children are taught the 'Contemptible Qualities of the Jew' as well as how terrible infidels are. These textbooks from the kingdom of Saudi Arabia are sent to Islamic schools worldwide, for free. But that hate speech  - nothing to see here move along.

Even quoting what muslims say about muslims themselves in the Multiculti State -if it is anything negative, is a hate crime. So shut your mouth you dirty stinking horrible Nazi if you dare criticise Islam, or, even happen to notice what muslims themselves are saying they are doing in the name of Islam and quoting them. Sharia is one of the first totalitarian systems known to man, and it is a brutal and effective one where every muslim is an informant, informing on infidels and muslims alike - and with extreme violence or even death, sharia law is then enforced.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #57 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:27pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 8:54pm:
Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.


Rather like Christianity in that regard, isn't it, Baron?   Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #58 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:27pm
 
Calanen wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:04pm:
There is no free speech in Islam. There is the concept of 'slandering Islam' which is not the same as what we see slander as, but is the best translation. It basically means, saying anything bad about Islam, or holding it up to ridicule or criticism, anything negative, you are severely punished or killed.

In Islamic societies a woman does not even have the freedom to accuse her rapist of rape, without bringing four other male witnesses to support her story. If she does not, she will be charged with making a false accusation and with adultery for having sex outside of marriage even though raped. This was what happened to a young Australian bar tender in a hotel who was raped by her co-workers, she was sentenced to a term of imprisonment for daring to report what happened. That is Islam.

As a non-muslim in Islam, you must be a submissive second class citizen who must know their place. There was another case when an English architect in Dubai, frustrated with delays in construction said 'Why can't we build this bloody mosque?" and then he was arrested for saying 'bloody mosque.' If a local muslim accuses you of anything in an Islamic country look out - their word will always be believed over yours, because, an infidel has less weight in testimony than a believer.

The ultimate goal of Islamic peak bodies is to bring in the same thoughtcrime laws into the West preventing all criticism of Islam, as 'hate speech'. Wanna know about hate speech - in the Islamic world - criticism of jews and Israel is worse than the Third Reich on its worse day, almost never reported in the mainstream media. In Saudi Arabia, textbooks have entries where the children are taught the 'Contemptible Qualities of the Jew' as well as how terrible infidels are. These textbooks from the kingdom of Saudi Arabia are sent to Islamic schools worldwide, for free. But that hate speech  - nothing to see here move along.

Even quoting what muslims say about muslims themselves in the Multiculti State -if it is anything negative, is a hate crime. So shut your mouth you dirty stinking horrible Nazi if you dare criticise Islam, or, even happen to notice what muslims themselves are saying they are doing in the name of Islam and quoting them. Sharia is one of the first totalitarian systems known to man, and it is a brutal and effective one where every muslim is an informant, informing on infidels and muslims alike - and with extreme violence or even death, sharia law is then enforced.


*SIGH*, the same myths, repeated again.   Shocked
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #59 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:36pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:27pm:
Calanen wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:04pm:
There is no free speech in Islam. There is the concept of 'slandering Islam' which is not the same as what we see slander as, but is the best translation. It basically means, saying anything bad about Islam, or holding it up to ridicule or criticism, anything negative, you are severely punished or killed.

In Islamic societies a woman does not even have the freedom to accuse her rapist of rape, without bringing four other male witnesses to support her story. If she does not, she will be charged with making a false accusation and with adultery for having sex outside of marriage even though raped. This was what happened to a young Australian bar tender in a hotel who was raped by her co-workers, she was sentenced to a term of imprisonment for daring to report what happened. That is Islam.

As a non-muslim in Islam, you must be a submissive second class citizen who must know their place. There was another case when an English architect in Dubai, frustrated with delays in construction said 'Why can't we build this bloody mosque?" and then he was arrested for saying 'bloody mosque.' If a local muslim accuses you of anything in an Islamic country look out - their word will always be believed over yours, because, an infidel has less weight in testimony than a believer.

The ultimate goal of Islamic peak bodies is to bring in the same thoughtcrime laws into the West preventing all criticism of Islam, as 'hate speech'. Wanna know about hate speech - in the Islamic world - criticism of jews and Israel is worse than the Third Reich on its worse day, almost never reported in the mainstream media. In Saudi Arabia, textbooks have entries where the children are taught the 'Contemptible Qualities of the Jew' as well as how terrible infidels are. These textbooks from the kingdom of Saudi Arabia are sent to Islamic schools worldwide, for free. But that hate speech  - nothing to see here move along.

Even quoting what muslims say about muslims themselves in the Multiculti State -if it is anything negative, is a hate crime. So shut your mouth you dirty stinking horrible Nazi if you dare criticise Islam, or, even happen to notice what muslims themselves are saying they are doing in the name of Islam and quoting them. Sharia is one of the first totalitarian systems known to man, and it is a brutal and effective one where every muslim is an informant, informing on infidels and muslims alike - and with extreme violence or even death, sharia law is then enforced.


*SIGH*, the same myths, repeated again.   Shocked


if these were ’the same’ myths you have heard and refuted already many times you’d have some compelling argument ready to hand. But you don’t because they aren’t.
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