Malik Shakur wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 8:24pm:


- and you think that 100 lashes is acceptable for just having sex with another married person?

I too have no problem with Muslims practising their religion, but there are certain human rights that need to be observed. Personally I have problems with both capital and corporal punishment, and I think that society in Australia has the same issues. My issue is that in practice these laws may be applied to non-Muslims who might be visiting a Muslim country. Ok, as far as Muslims as concerned, if a person is not silly enough to renounce their faith and ends up being stoned to death as a result, maybe that's their problem. It's just evolution taking its course.

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Yeah, but it isn't practised there. There would be widespread condemnation if that law was actually put into place. It's an anachronism, like the law that permitted husbands to beat their wives for justified reasons (in Queensland?) until it was repealed.  - A fossil law from the barbaric past (just like Shariah Law)

If you want an example of where pedophilia is practised, you just need to look at most Sub-Saharan African countries, whether Muslim or Christian. A large proportion of African men are pedophiles, and unfortunately a number of European men take advantage of it too.

Fixed unchangeable laws that derive from 1400 year old texts lead to injustice, because society values have changed for the better.

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Human condition? What are you talking about? And saying if the law was valid then, it is now, is stating everything that's wrong with religion....Islam in particular.

That's such silly logic, malik, and you know it. There are heaps of laws that still exist in the world that are never enforced and not believed in anymore, and the reason the laws have never been changed is not because people still find them acceptable, it's because people find them so stupid that everyone ignores them.

Righto, just ignore what I am saying. You are either a moron (doubt it) or someone who refuses to understand the points people make. (highly likely) either way it's makes for ridiculous debates. Although, this is not surprising considering your belief system in general.

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He would've been considered a man in his time by his society, otherwise he wouldn't really have been able to marry. He most likely would've been working and supporting himself and his new wife.

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The economic situation in most Muslim countries is now not the best, as I'm sure you're aware, the social situation has also been severely damaged by the past century of mismanagement. Most Muslim males cannot afford to marry until they're well into their 30's, and that's probably why you see today a higher occurence of older men marrying younger girls, as opposed to in times past, when it would've been a lot more distributed, the variance in ages for males and females marrying.

Muhammad's (pbuh) first wife was also quite his senior. Something very rarely mentioned today, we only hear about his younger wife.

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It probably still occurs, just not as often, most likely due to the economic situation, and the fact that most children today are schooled beyond that age, and therefore not really able to support a family.

What I'm pointing out though, is that there's no social taboo against it in Islamic culture. There is no ageism when it comes to marriage, so long as both parties are sexually mature.

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They are a child according to your own cultural definition. For most of the history of human society, most societies didn't consider 13 yo's to be children. Certainly not Islamic society. As I've mentioned before, when Muhammad Bin Qasim (May God have mercy on him), the distinguished Muslim General who conquered most of the Indian Sub-Continent made his greatest conquests, he was only 16 or 17 years old. Today, in your society, he'd be considered a child, but his actions show he was very much a man, and I doubt he'd have been considered a man for less than 3 years...

Also it's a known fact amongst those who study the social sciences that the "awkward years" between reaching sexual maturity and being considered an adult by society is associated with a lot of the anti-social behaviour that exists in societies who view teenagers in this way. In societies where people are considered adults when they reach sexual maturity and are given rights and responsibilities befitting of their maturity, those people in general fit into society much more smoothly. So perhaps it's the West who need to re-evaluate the way they view teenagers, not Islam.

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Quite mantra..How convenient to have the "good book" to justify human rights abuses such as this..these poor children, and at 13 that is indeed what they are, have no choice, no voice, no rights.

The abuse and degredation of women in Arab countries is well known..treatment of women in many parts  of the world is not good..but for these women seems to be worse.

Abu- you are not an Aussie Muslim if you try to justify the Koran in this practice..true Aussies reject it.

oceanz wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2008 at 8:03pm:


Well as mentioned previously, with one's parents and a court's approval you can get married at 13 years of age.

And that is the Law in some states of the USA.. Which 'good book' was used to justify that?


oceanz wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2008 at 8:03pm:

Yes but you see the thing is, these arab countries aren't Islamic states, so what do you expect? The Arabs rule their nations according to their tribalistic and culturalistic practices rather than Islamic law.

oceanz wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2008 at 8:03pm:

Who are you to say what a true aussie can and can't do? Or don't you believe in the freedom of choice and beliefs that we have here in this country? How very unaustralian of you, perhaps a place like china would be better for you?

mantra wrote on Aug 4^th, 2008 at 7:44am:

That's really not anywhere close to a dozen children. It's not our fault that most Australians don't want to have kids.

That's of Muslim women ages 40-44...It's funny however though, most Muslim women I know which are my own age are in university or have a university degree. That's because their parents worked so hard to give them what they didn't have.

Most Muslim women I know