jordan484 wrote on Jul 31^st, 2008 at 3:58pm:


or it could be assumed that people would be smart enough to apply the standards that existed at the time........rather than applying 2008 standards to a person that lived in the year 600.

or it could be assumed that people would be smart enough to apply the standards that existed at the time........rather than applying 2008 standards to a person that lived in the year 600.

Couldn't you say the same thing about all Islamic law?

mozzaok wrote on Jul 31^st, 2008 at 3:17pm:


Lol.

I actually know a couple of Klingon insults.

bIjatlh 'e' yImev.
Hab SoSlI' Quch!

Nevertheless, I am also prepared not to take this to the HR EEO Commission and withdraw my complaint.

Islamic law isn't retrospective and things which became illegal but were practiced before it were not punishable because that would have been unreasonable.. Something which you fail to see..

I think you missed my Point Malik. To be fair, it was a bit ambiguous. If Muslims can appreciate that marrying a 12 year old girl or getting betrothed to a 6 year old girl was acceptable in the past but isn't any more, then surely they can also accept that stoning people to death for being gay, slavery etc are also unacceptable, even in an Islamic state, and that we should fight against any such regression rather than encourage it.

freediver wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 10:47am:


FD we don't stone people for being gay actually, in fact I made it very clear that the punishment of stoning applies to one who commits adultery and cheats on their wife/husband, if a person commits homosexual acts and there can be four witnesses for it and they are not married then they get the same punishment as someone does for fornication and that is 100 lashes thus the punishment is for adultery or fornication and not for partaking in the homosexual act. I'm sure you know that's the case because we've already discussed it so please don't go around saying otherwise.

Secondly I never said that marrying a 12 year old is unacceptable, instead I said that society has changed somewhat, especially here in the West where people take a great deal longer to develop mentally and be ready for marriage due to society's concept that adolesence is something where youth have no right to be considered able to make adult decisions that impact their lives, nor are they given the tools by today's society to make such decisions and their development is stunted. So instead they rebel and do all of those things anyway but this way they aren't given a helping and guiding hand by those around them, and have to learn all the lessons for themselves the hard way at a greater cost to them and society..

As mentioned before, in some states of the USA one can marry as young as 13 years old with the permission of the parents and the permission of the courts. If the court finds a safe environment awaits the person in addition to maturity in them then they'll get the permission and good luck to them.

So it is unwise in most cases for 12 year olds to marry if they aren't prepared for it. I think it depends on the person.

Next, regarding slavery. I have also made it clear regarding this issue. Slavery by the Western usage was forbidden in Islam 1400 years ago, the Islamic definition of slavery is closer to servitude because one can get out of it if they request to and they get to eat, sleep and be clothed the same as their master, they are afforded human rights. It is a means to make sure those who lose their possessions due to being beaten in war have a means to rebuild their position in society, one could easily look at the Mamluke Empire who were all slaves previously but after being freed became the rulers of the nation.

The West's brutal and oppressive form of slavery which continued this barbaric tradition long after Islam forbid it more than 1400 years ago still has not been resolved and no reparations have been paid to those who are the decendents of slaves and in addition to that, even today when one looks at the treatment of poor Indonesians and others by economic superpowers one could easily define that as slavery, as well as the US government's ignoring the multitudes of illegal aliens in their country who do menial jobs for incredibly low wages. They get treated far worse than the Muslim version does.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 8:33pm:

Yes, in 2008, in some states of the US you can marry when your as young as 13 years old with your parent's and court's permission.

In the secular West..

You really haven't gone that far in that time actually have you mate?