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Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence (Read 38362 times)
freediver
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #75 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:10pm
 
Acid, check the feedback board if you are interested. There is a thread there devoted to it. I'm not interested in having the same discussion about it every week in a different thread.

Helian, if you can't handle that sort of thing maturely, you shouldn't use internet forums. Or at least not ones that encourage dialogue between different perspectives. The only way to foster open debate on forums like these is to expect people to handle it maturely, not try to protect them from immaturity. I'm not a baby sitter.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #76 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:10pm:

Helian, if you can't handle that sort of thing maturely, you shouldn't use internet forums. Or at least not ones that encourage dialogue between different perspectives. The only way to foster open debate on forums like these is to expect people to handle it maturely, not try to protect them from immaturity. I'm not a baby sitter.


What the hell are you on about?

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Acid Monkey
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #77 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:10pm:
Acid, check the feedback board if you are interested. There is a thread there devoted to it. I'm not interested in having the same discussion about it every week in a different thread.


Mate, it's your smacking site. You know your way around this place with your eyes closed. If you want to enlighten me then enlighten me by pointing me the way (at least with a link). And I can tell you a simple "no" gives nothing away (perhaps intensionally). You don't have a case to act all indignant about it when you are the one causing the confusion. I haven't got time to trawl through every single page of every single topic heading and sub-topic heading on the off chance that I may stumble onto something. You'll be lucky if I read anything beyond the first page, let along go to the feedback site (which I think I have to on 2 occasions).

Quote:
It's up to Muslims to know what's offensive. Obviously you accept that we are not always free to say what we like, hence a prohibition at this site on words like sh!t and front bottom.


Besides, the discussion was not about swear words anyway, but was used as an example (by helian) of the main discussion of freedom of speech and how far the limits of vitriol can go. If there are no limits because we have to trust on the sensibilities of the agressor and the sensitivities of victim which you appear to be a proponent of. Therefore, I asked if that is the case why then is there a restriction of swear words if you're all for free speech.

Sprint breached Malik's sensitivity limit but you're saying that it's not Sprints fault. Fine, then. By that standard therefore its not my fault if I were to say bugger. However, by restricting my words you are in essence saying that it is. I want to understand were you set the limit wwith regards to religious vilification within this forum.
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« Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:58pm by Acid Monkey »  
 
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #78 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:25pm
 
Helian, I was responding to this comment:

I meant it in the context of 'to needle, torment, or persecute, especially with malicious remarks'.

Acid:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1206170281

Sprint breached Malik's sensitivity limit but you're saying that it's not Sprints fault.

I'm saying he did nothing illegal and that I'm not going to try to step in, beyond what I have already done.

I want to understand were you set the limit wwith regards to religious vilification within this forum.

I haven't set any limits. Unlike race, religion is fair game for criticism because it is a conscious choice. I did delete a signature calling for death to Jews, but that was because it was a death threat, not because of the type of group being targetted.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #79 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:25pm:
Helian, I was responding to this comment:

I meant it in the context of 'to needle, torment, or persecute, especially with malicious remarks'.


And that was in response to the context you used for my use of the verb to bait which I don't believe leads to healthy dialogue.

(Your earlier comment) You can encourage some very healthy debate by doing that. It's continually taking baits you shouldn't that causes the problems.


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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #80 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:48pm
 
Yes. Those sorts of things are very common on internet forums. But if people start taking the bait all the time, it clogs the forum with BS. People need to learn some self control. Malik said many times that he knew it was a bad idea to respond to sprint, but he still did so. Meanwhile, plenty of genuine questions about Islam, like in the Islam and Australian values thread, went unanswered. You can't expect moderators to start judging which questions are real and which are annoying and then intervening, but you can expect people to judge for themselves and ignore the pointless ones. What is pointless to one person may be interesting to another.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #81 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:25pm:
Sprint breached Malik's sensitivity limit but you're saying that it's not Sprints fault.

I'm saying he did nothing illegal and that I'm not going to try to step in, beyond what I have already done.

Sprint's actions are illegal.

freediver wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:25pm:

I want to understand were you set the limit wwith regards to religious vilification within this forum.

I haven't set any limits. Unlike race, religion is fair game for criticism because it is a conscious choice. I did delete a signature calling for death to Jews, but that was because it was a death threat, not because of the type of group being targetted.

Religion is not fair game, it's part of a person's identity and who they are. It's a part of their soul and for someone who is a true believer in their faith it's something which is more dear to them than their own skin.

In addition to that you are bound by Victorian law to prevent it and if you do let it continue then you're subject to the consequences of doing so.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #82 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:56pm
 
Communism or crapping on the footpath could be part of someone's identity. I'm still going to criticise it no matter how dear it is to them. Taboos are a barrier to effective communication and progress.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #83 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 7:10pm
 
But to go to the extent that Sprint did of persecuting, inciting hatred and vilifying it is going too far.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #84 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 7:43pm
 
You got sick of it, that's all. Instead of just showing some maturity and ignoring him you chose to try to silence him. There was nothing unusual about the extent of Sprint's criticisms. Mozz for example goes further. There was nothing unusual about the frequency, especially given the context of ongoing debate. He didn't persecute anyone. He criticised you and he criticised Islam. Your accusations are an insult to people who are genuinely persecuted for their beliefs.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #85 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 7:48pm
 
Pull up FD, I think you may be violating my human rights to take the piss. Wink
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #86 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 7:58pm
 
And Yes, FD is right, I openly deride all religions on principle, but only in the context of a free and open forum.
I don't hang around outside places of worship and tell people they are on the wrong path, that would be rude, I hope that you will be able to see the difference Malik.

When people come to sites like this it is to share a frank and fearless exchange of views, and if you cannot handle hearing differing views then perhaps you should choose something you find less challenging.
Personally I hope you can get over it, and just accept that we all are different, and we will sometimes disagree, but that is not of itself, a bad thing.
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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #87 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 8:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 6:48pm:
Yes. Those sorts of things are very common on internet forums. But if people start taking the bait all the time, it clogs the forum with BS. People need to learn some self control. Malik said many times that he knew it was a bad idea to respond to sprint, but he still did so. Meanwhile, plenty of genuine questions about Islam, like in the Islam and Australian values thread, went unanswered. You can't expect moderators to start judging which questions are real and which are annoying and then intervening, but you can expect people to judge for themselves and ignore the pointless ones. What is pointless to one person may be interesting to another.


You expect much from the respondent and so little from the instigator. Isn't it as much a responsibility of the poster  to be mature as the respondent?  (perhaps more given he is he one transmitting inflammatory statements designed to evoke emotion over reason).

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« Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2008 at 8:58pm by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #88 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 8:55pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 24th, 2008 at 7:58pm:
And Yes, FD is right, I openly deride all religions on principle, but only in the context of a free and open forum.
I don't hang around outside places of worship and tell people they are on the wrong path, that would be rude, I hope that you will be able to see the difference Malik.

When people come to sites like this it is to share a frank and fearless exchange of views, and if you cannot handle hearing differing views then perhaps you should choose something you find less challenging.
Personally I hope you can get over it, and just accept that we all are different, and we will sometimes disagree, but that is not of itself, a bad thing.


Are you sure you're talking about being frank and fearless Mozz by using the anonymity of forums to pour out excessive vituperation? To stand outside a Mosque or Church and say the same things would take courage... you would be identifying yourself in a way from which you are spared here.

I have found people to be much more hateful when they know they can hide behind an ethereal shield than they are in the flesh, much like what Martin Luther King discovered regarding the morality of a crowd when compared to that of the individual.

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Re: Sprints Posts=Inciting religious intolerence
Reply #89 - Jul 24th, 2008 at 9:01pm
 
Yes Helian, I am.
Debating religious ridiculousness holds no moral problem for me, but I do not take the debate to people who do not wish to engage in it.
Unless you are implying that religious people are even more hypocritical than they pretend, and would wish to silence differing opinions with violence.
In which case no, I would not go up to a mob of fanatical Islamists and tell them their beliefs are wrong and their moral values are non existent, because they would have displayed an inability to comprehend, as well as an ugly and violent nature I would not wish to be attacked by.
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