GSS wrote on Jul 24
th, 2008 at 2:36pm:
[quote]
the only way to free society of religion is by being totalitarian and forbidding it by force.
Utterly wrong.
A voluntary society, which I believe would be a necessity for a "ideal" Western society, could be one where all who choose to join it agree to foreswear religion, or agree to leave it should they choose to believe in the flying spaghetti monster, or other god.
Quote:u cannot have a society which simply gives up religion altogether, because whether u like it or not some ppl will always believe in it.
Yes you can, see above.
Quote:while we don't live in a theocratic legal system, alot of our basic values/beliefs/definition of right vs wrong are derived from Judeo-Christian concepts.
We are talking about an ideal society. Here you go;
Quote:i•de•al Audio Help /aɪˈdiəl, aɪˈdil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-dee-uhl, ahy-deel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a conception of something in its perfection.
2. a standard of perfection or excellence.
3. a person or thing conceived as embodying such a conception or conforming to such a standard, and taken as a model for imitation: Thomas Jefferson was his ideal.
4. an ultimate object or aim of endeavor, esp. one of high or noble character: He refuses to compromise any of his ideals.
5. something that exists only in the imagination: To achieve the ideal is almost hopeless.
6. Mathematics. a subring of a ring, any element of which when multiplied by any element of the ring results in an element of the subring.
–adjective 7. conceived as constituting a standard of perfection or excellence: ideal beauty.
8. regarded as perfect of its kind: an ideal spot for a home.
9. existing only in the imagination; not real or actual: Nature is real; beauty is ideal.
10. advantageous; excellent; best: It would be ideal if she could accompany us as she knows the way.
11. based upon an ideal or ideals: the ideal theory of numbers.
12. Philosophy. a. pertaining to a possible state of affairs considered as highly desirable.
b. pertaining to or of the nature of idealism.
We are not talking about the nature of current society.
Quote:gotta love ur maturity, rather than just disagreeing u decide to say other ppl's thoughts are "rubbish".
If I find someone's thoughts rubbish, I have the honesty to tell them so.
I also find being lectured on maturity from someone who uses the terms "u", "ur" and "ppl" in debate rather....sweet..
Quote:okay, i will give u an example of what i mean:
* do u remember the black-out that happened in New York city a few years back? do u remember what the people did? well, if not, they basically went looting, broke every shop window and grabbed whatever they could.
they didn't care that stealing is a crime did they? why? because they didn't have religion or had very little religion in their lives. so what do u have - total chaos.
They also didn't have Socratic moral philosophy in their lives, should we blame an absence of Greek humanism too? But again, you are talking about societies which have failed to meet the ideal tag, why?
Quote:* other side - too much religion, it's becomes oppressive to the point that u have Taliban style rule or medieval Europe (to give u a christian example).
All Arabic religions are totalitarian by nature, including all the Christian cults.
Quote:a middle ground solution is best......some religion, not too much and not too little.
I disagree. A society without religion is best. Once you introduce religion into a society, you lay it open to abuse by snake oil salesmen, conjurors, and other such clerics who have a direct line to the Great Oogah Boogah in the sky.
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