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Women in islam (Read 64581 times)
Sprintcyclist
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Women in islam
Jul 20th, 2008 at 4:57pm
 

From an offtopic thread else where.

Any comments ?
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #1 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 5:58pm
 
yeh there's many of them I think... women in islam that is.

Actually the majority of Muslims are women, and strangely too, the majority of converts to Islam are women. I heard that in the USA women converts outnumber men 4 to 1.

They must just be gluttons for punishment I guess? Love to be oppressed and all.
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #2 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 6:05pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 5:58pm:
yeh there's many of them I think... women in islam that is.

Actually the majority of Muslims are women, and strangely too, the majority of converts to Islam are women. I heard that in the USA women converts outnumber men 4 to 1.

They must just be gluttons for punishment I guess? Love to be oppressed and all.

Yep thats right Abu_Rashid, those American women love to be oppressed..
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #3 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 8:33pm
 
Interesting... no one made mention in this thread of female oppression except abu_rushid and Malik.Shakur.

Why is that gentlemen?
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #4 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 8:40pm
 
Sappho wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 8:33pm:
Interesting... no one made mention in this thread of female oppression except abu_rushid and Malik.Shakur.

Why is that gentlemen?

Because it's plainly obvious by now that Sprint's only intentions in posting anything about Islam is to incite hate against it. So in this case it would be to make it seem as if women are oppressed in Islam.

He's done it before and he's trying to do it again.

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Re: Women in islam
Reply #5 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 9:31pm
 
Sappho, perhaps if you went and read the other threads from which he was trying to spawn this one, you might have a better idea.
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #6 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:16pm
 
[url][/url]http://www.indonesiamatters.com/648/female-circumcision/

The Ulema Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), says female circumcision is necessary for Muslims.
                                 And more
It's Indonesia's biggest secret. Most of its women have been subjected to an operation which the World Health Organisation says is unnecessary. Matthew Moore and Karuni Rompies report.
                                 And more
Dhimmitude in Europe advances apace. Hot on the heels of a Swiss court's reinstating Hani Ramadan to his teaching position despite his advocating stoning for adultery, a mosque in the Netherlands has come out with a pamphlet advocating female genital mutilation. From Expatica, with thanks to "Allah.
                                 And finally
Where is FGM Practised?

The majority of cases of FGM are carried out in 28 African countries. In some countries, (e.g. Egypt, Ethiopia, Somalia and Sudan), prevalence rates can be as high as 98 per cent. In other countries, such as Nigeria, Kenya, Togo and Senegal, the prevalence rates vary between 20 and 50 per cent. It is more accurate however, to view FGM as being practised by specific ethnic groups, rather than by a whole country, as communities practising FGM straddle national boundaries. FGM takes place in parts of the Middle East, i.e. in Yemen, Oman, Iraqi Kurdistan, amongst some Bedouin women in Israel, and was also practised by the Ethiopian Jews, and it is unclear whether they continue with the practice now that they are settled in Israel. FGM is also practised among Bohra Muslim populations in parts of India and Pakistan, and amongst Muslim populations in Malaysia and Indonesia.

As a result of immigration and refugee movements, FGM is now being practiced by ethnic minority populations in other parts of the world, such as USA, Canada, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. FORWARD estimates that as many as 6,500 girls are at risk of FGM within the UK every year.
Consequences of FGM

So, while we see it crosses religious boundaries, and countries have moved to ban it, the ignorance and barbarity continues, and Islam is one of those ignorant forces behind it's continuance. 


copied with permission from mozzaok
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #7 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:25pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:16pm:
[url][/url]http://www.indonesiamatters.com/648/female-circumcision/

The Ulema Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), says female circumcision is necessary for Muslims.
                                 And more
It's Indonesia's biggest secret. Most of its women have been subjected to an operation which the World Health Organisation says is unnecessary. Matthew Moore and Karuni Rompies report.
                                 And more
Dhimmitude in Europe advances apace. Hot on the heels of a Swiss court's reinstating Hani Ramadan to his teaching position despite his advocating stoning for adultery, a mosque in the Netherlands has come out with a pamphlet advocating female genital mutilation. From Expatica, with thanks to "Allah.
                                 And finally
Where is FGM Practised?

The majority of cases of FGM are carried out in 28 African countries. In some countries, (e.g. Egypt, Ethiopia, Somalia and Sudan), prevalence rates can be as high as 98 per cent. In other countries, such as Nigeria, Kenya, Togo and Senegal, the prevalence rates vary between 20 and 50 per cent. It is more accurate however, to view FGM as being practised by specific ethnic groups, rather than by a whole country, as communities practising FGM straddle national boundaries. FGM takes place in parts of the Middle East, i.e. in Yemen, Oman, Iraqi Kurdistan, amongst some Bedouin women in Israel, and was also practised by the Ethiopian Jews, and it is unclear whether they continue with the practice now that they are settled in Israel. FGM is also practised among Bohra Muslim populations in parts of India and Pakistan, and amongst Muslim populations in Malaysia and Indonesia.

As a result of immigration and refugee movements, FGM is now being practiced by ethnic minority populations in other parts of the world, such as USA, Canada, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. FORWARD estimates that as many as 6,500 girls are at risk of FGM within the UK every year.
Consequences of FGM

So, while we see it crosses religious boundaries, and countries have moved to ban it, the ignorance and barbarity continues, and Islam is one of those ignorant forces behind it's continuance.  


copied with permission from mozzaok

How stupid could you be Sprint?

I've already explained this and explained how it's not FGM. Even the World Health Organization agrees with me on this.

Again:

The World Health Organization defines FGM as the following:

Quote:
Female genital mutilation is classified into four major types:

*Clitoridectomy: partial or total removal of the clitoris (a small, sensitive and erectile part of the female genitals) and, rarely, the prepuce (the fold of skin surrounding the clitoris) as well.

*Excision: partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia minora, with or without excision of the labia majora (the labia are "the lips" that surround the vagina).

*Infibulation: narrowing of the vaginal opening through the creation of a covering seal. The seal is formed by cutting and repositioning the inner, and sometimes outer, labia, with or without removal of the clitoris.

*Other: all other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, e.g. pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterizing the genital area.


All four of these are considered forbidden in Islam and are punishable by death, in particular infibulation.

What is considered 'female circumcision' in the Islamic world at least is the removal or reduction of the clitoral hood to promote cleanliness, it is not harming any of the woman's genitals at all and doesn't take away a woman's ability to have sexual satisfaction. It promotes cleanliness just as male circumcision does and in fact can increase a woman's pleasure during sexual intercourse.

This practice is also done by many doctors in the West including the two following:

http://www.altermd.com/clitoropexy_clitoral_hood_reduction.htm

http://www.drkarenboyle.com/clitoral_hood_reduction_clitoropexy.html

That is not FGM and is acceptable in Islam. Unlike Christianity, Islam encourages sex with ones wife/husband and even to the extent of it being something that one receives blessings from God for.
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #8 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:28pm
 
just keeping things on thread malik.

what another disgusting primitive islamic thing that muslims support fanatically.

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Re: Women in islam
Reply #9 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm
 
Women living under Islamic laws are not allowed to work, travel, go to college, join organizations, or visit friends and relatives without the permission of their father or husband.
They can be legally jailed or executed for violations of Islamic laws, depending on the seriousness the infraction.
Quranic verse 24:31 warns Muslim women not to make eye contact or allow any part of their skin or jewelry to be seen by strangers, "and tell the believing women to lower their gaze and protect themselves from illegal sexual acts, and not show off their adornment [to all men] and boys]." As a result of this verse, if an adult girl (9 years and older) is raped by an adult man, she will be considered at fault because she was careless and provoked the attack. Her parents will be expected to severely punish or kill her for dishonoring her family.
If a woman is taken political prisoner, and condemned to death, Islamic law prevents her from being executed as long as she is a virgin because Muslim leaders believe virgins go to heaven. But, according to those same leaders, women involved in politics are "ungodly creatures" who do not deserve to go to heaven. To insure that an "ungodly virgin" does not enter heaven, the woman's captors will treat her as a concubine making it legal for her to be systematically raped.
Islamic justification for raping woman prisoners can be found because Muhammad gave permission for Muslim warriors to rape enemy prisoners "except those (captives and slaves) whom your hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you….." Surah 4:24. The key words for the Islamic legal code are "whom your hands possess" and "thus Allah has ordained for you."
Muslim Quranic (bible) verse 4:34 instructs Muslim men to "admonish" and "beat" their wives if they become "rebellious" and that "men are the managers of the affairs of women because Allah has preferred men over women and women were expended of their Rights."
In an Islamic court of law, it takes the testimony of two women to override the testimony of one man. Justification for this legal tradition is found in Quran 2:282.
Muslim women are not allowed equal right to their inheritance (Quran 4:11-12) because they are only worth half of a man's share. In most Islamic countries, women are not allowed to vote and are certainly not allowed to be elected to public office.
According to Islam, most women are inherently evil and their ultimate destiny is Hell fire. Muhammad explained about one of his visions, ". . . I stood at the gate of the Fire [Hell] and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women."
When a women asked Muhammad why there were more women in Hell than men, he replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."
When the woman asked what was deficient in a woman's intelligence and religion, Muhammad answered, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man? This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses? This is the deficiency in her religion."
Because Muhammad said, "marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then only one, or what your right hands own; so it is likelier you will not be partial," polygamy is legal in Islam. A man may marry "four Permanent" and as many "Provisional" or temporary wives as he desires.
Because Muhammad said, "your women are a tillage for you; so come unto your tillage as you wish," Islam assumes not only that women are worth less than men, but that they are property who must unquestionable meet all her husband's sexual desires. If she refuses, he has the legal right under Islamic law to deny her food, shelter, and all of life's necessities.
A Muslim woman does not have the right to choose who she wants to marry. She is not permitted to divorce her husband unless she can prove he is impotent or that he does not have sex with her "at least one night in every forty nights" and if he has not provided her with a minimum standard of living. In both cases, the woman would need another witness, because Muhammad said a women's testimony counts only "half of a man's."
If a Muslim women protests any of her treatment, she is reminded that "her husband can divorce her simply by repeating "I divorce you" three times and that her prayers and devotions will not be accepted by God and curses of heaven and earth will fall upon her" if she continues to rebel.
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #10 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:33pm
 
If a Muslim women protests any of her treatment, she is reminded that "her husband can divorce her simply by repeating "I divorce you" three times and that her prayers and devotions will not be accepted by God and curses of heaven and earth will fall upon her" if she continues to rebel.
Since Muhammad's time, Muslim women have been made to fear the Hell Fire consequences of disobeying husbands and fathers, but what can the loyal and obedient women expect to find for herself in paradise?
Because Paradise, is described in largely male terms, the exact nature of an equivalent reward for women remains unclear. Married women, who pass the purity test will be reunited with their husbands and children. A woman who married more than once would have to choose which husband she would prefer to join her in the after-life. She, however, remains reserved for her husbands, if one chooses to keep her.
Men who married more than once will remain free to keep all their wives while having the privilege of being attended to by 72 pure, beautiful, dark eyed, lustrous angelic maidens, whose bodies continuously reclaims as "virgins."
Muslim scholars say that Muslim women in Paradise are also rebuilt young and beautiful with perpetual virginity, but that there is no Quranic promise of virgins for women.
Although Muhammad was heard promising that "round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls," Muslim scholars are emphatic that the pretty virgin boys in Paradise are not there for the women.
"I am a Moslem woman. I have no face. I have no identity . . . Islam believes and promotes only one relationship between male and female and that is the relation of lust . . . I have no explanation on why God denied me everything and made men in charge of me, if there is a God. I don't believe there ever was one."-- Dr. Parvin Darabi, a rehabilitated Muslim woman, author and activist.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan07/muslim_women.htm

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Re: Women in islam
Reply #11 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:37pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:28pm:
just keeping things on thread malik.

what another disgusting primitive islamic thing that muslims support fanatically.


Sprint, you really must be quite stupid here if you are still ignoring what I've written.

The piercing, reduction or removal of the clitoral hood is not FGM, it's completely legal and acceptable, it's done by many doctors in the West and I've shown you two of them.

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Re: Women in islam
Reply #12 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:57pm
 
malik - it is done to 100% of the women in muslim countries.
It is mass female vulva multilation.

Unless they are all so dirty and infected they all medically need it.



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Re: Women in islam
Reply #13 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 11:01pm
 

we are in the year 2008, not 1008


"AT least eight women and one man have been sentenced to be stoned to death in Iran and may be executed at any time, the lawyers defending several of those sentenced said today.

The eight women, ranging in age from 27 to 43, had convictions including prostitution, incest and adultery.

The man, a 50-year-old music teacher, was convicted of illegal sex with a student.

The last officially reported stoning in the Islamic Republic was carried out on a man a year ago which drew criticism from rights groups, the European Union and a top U.N. official.

Iran's judiciary chief Ayatollah Mohmoud Hashemi-Shahroudi ordered a moratorium on stoning in 2002.

"Our specific and clear demand is to have the stoning sentence stopped by Ayatollah Shahroudi since the defendants are liable to be stoned at any moment," defence lawyer Mariam Kian-Arsi said.

Judiciary officials were not immediately available for comment.

But the Iranian authorities routinely dismiss charges of rights abuses, saying they are acting on Islamic sharia law.

The lawyers issued a list of those facing stoning, saying it numbered at least nine people and urged parliament to remove stoning and other corporal punishments from law books.

"We are trying to have such punishments removed and replaced by different ones so that it would be compatible with the dignity of humanity," lawyer Mohammad Mostafaie said.

According to Iran's Islamic penal code, men convicted of adultery should be buried up to their waists and women up to their chests for stoning.

Stones used should not be large enough to kill the person immediately.

Shadi Sadr, another defence lawyer, called on the international community and rights groups to back their efforts.

"We are in close touch with human rights organisations and many of them have supported our campaign," Sadr said.

Amnesty International earlier this year called on Iran to immediately abolish "this grotesque punishment" and said many of those awaiting execution by stoning were sentenced after grossly unfair trials.

Iran responds to Western criticism of its rights record by pointing to what it says are abuses in the West, such as detainees held by the United States in Guantanamo Bay. "



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24048793-12335,00.html
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Re: Women in islam
Reply #14 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 11:13pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm:
Women living under Islamic laws are not allowed to work, travel, go to college, join organizations, or visit friends and relatives without the permission of their father or husband.

Not exactly true.


Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm:
They can be legally jailed or executed for violations of Islamic laws, depending on the seriousness the infraction.

So can men.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm:
Quranic verse 24:31 warns Muslim women not to make eye contact or allow any part of their skin or jewelry to be seen by strangers, "and tell the believing women to lower their gaze and protect themselves from illegal sexual acts, and not show off their adornment [to all men] and boys]." As a result of this verse, if an adult girl (9 years and older) is raped by an adult man, she will be considered at fault because she was careless and provoked the attack. Her parents will be expected to severely punish or kill her for dishonoring her family.

That is completely false, in fact you know for a fact that's a lie and I've explained why that's not the case before. It just goes to show you don't change and your only intention is to incite hate because your a bible thumping Christian who wants to force your religion down everyone elses throat. A girl who is raped is never considered to have deserved it in Islam, and honour killings are a pre Islamic practice that is forbidden in Islam. We execute the rapist and not the victim.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm:
If a woman is taken political prisoner, and condemned to death, Islamic law prevents her from being executed as long as she is a virgin because Muslim leaders believe virgins go to heaven. But, according to those same leaders, women involved in politics are "ungodly creatures" who do not deserve to go to heaven. To insure that an "ungodly virgin" does not enter heaven, the woman's captors will treat her as a concubine making it legal for her to be systematically raped.

Not true at all. Where is your evidence?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm:
Islamic justification for raping woman prisoners can be found because Muhammad gave permission for Muslim warriors to rape enemy prisoners "except those (captives and slaves) whom your hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you….." Surah 4:24. The key words for the Islamic legal code are "whom your hands possess" and "thus Allah has ordained for you."

Slavery was a practice of the prophets of the Bible too. In fact your own holy book allows it. God allowed it in the old testament and as we know, You believe the God of the old testament is Jesus.

Deutronomy 20:10-15

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.  This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.





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