I could not help but notice the direction the muslim posters on the polygamy thread headed, when Malik and Abu, both mentioned that they were converts to Islam.

They started to parrot the fantasy version of history, which a muslim missionary would feed to indigenous australians, if they were seeking to inculcate them into believing that Islam had some 'natural' relationship with their indigenous past.
As with all religions, they spread lies and deceit, they target the ignorant and disenfranchised by offering them a set of lies to base a fantasy construct of life, instead of the reality, which many find more appealing than actually facing up to the hard facts of reality.

So I openly admit to a deep revulsion for religious perversions of realities, so when I see this specific, planned targeting of aborigines by muslims, I fear for the direction which this cynical push from the religion of peace[sic] will lead us.

I am sure that non muslims will take comfort that the lebanese gang rapists will be vigorously promoting their balanced and idealistic standards upon their indigenous jailmates, whilst justifying how Islam tells them it was the girls fault, for inviting their assaults, by not wearing burkahs.
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Here is a bit from another blog;
"04 May, 2007
Linda Morris: Islamic Missionaries target indigenous Australians

A FLAG is soon to flutter above the troubled suburb of Redfern, proclaiming a new religious face to Aboriginal Australia. At the centre of a backdrop of equal halves of black and red, the colours of the Aboriginal people, is a yellow crescent moon and star. It's to be the symbol of the Koori Muslim Association, which will open the only Aboriginal mushalla in NSW at a shopfront location on busy Regent Street next month.

Conversion among indigenous Australians is growing, driven by the higher visibility of Islam, a rejection of Christianity as a post-colonial religion, identification with Islamic principles, and conversions in prisons where Aborigines dominate the population.

While no one knows how many indigenous Muslims there are in Australia, Aboriginal Muslims reject suggestions they are converting to the faith in droves. Some are descendants of Afghan and Baluch cameleers, North Indian traders and Malay pearl divers and have grown up in the faith. Many converts are from cities. The boxer Anthony Mundine is the most famous of these and has become a role model. Their first contact with Islam sometimes, but not always, comes in jail, where as many as 22 per cent of inmates are indigenous Australians. Rocky Davis, known as Shaheed Malik, converted while serving 14 years for armed robberies and other offences."
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Also this one from a few years ago;
"THE NSW Government has launched a prison crackdown on a group of the state's most dangerous criminals who have converted to Islam.

The targets are held in the highest security jail in Australia, the Super Max facility inside the walls of Goulburn jail, where one in three of the inmates is a Muslim fundamentalist or a convert.

Two prison converts, one a convicted murderer and the other a rapist, have married Muslim women in marriage ceremonies conducted over the telephone on party lines.

Attorney-General John Hatzistergos is introducing sweeping changes to the prison regulations so the Super Max Muslims are monitored 24/7 because of safety and security fears.

"We have to be able to control every movement and every utterance because of the threat they pose," Mr Hatzistergos told The Sun-Herald. "We don't want to see any risk to people either inside or outside the system. We simply can't take our eye off them."

Called the "Super Max Jihadists", they are easily identifiable, with shaven heads, long beards, carrying prayer beads and conducting prayers at least three times a day in their cells.

Their ringleader and powerbroker is Bassam Hamzy, jailed for 21 years for the cold-blooded shooting murder of an 18-year-old man outside the Mr Goodbar nightclub in Oxford Street in 1998.

Prison officers have confiscated pictures of Osama bin Laden from the walls of Hamzy's cell. Prisoners have been captured on surveillance tapes kneeling in front of Hamzy and kissing his hands.

The 37 Super Max inmates, including backpacker serial killer Ivan Milat, have committed 48 murders and are serving combined sentences of 550 years.

Now 12 of them claim adherence to Islam and form a close-knit culture in the purpose-built jail within a jail. Under Mr Hatzistergos's new measures, Hamzy and his apostles will be deemed "extreme high security" and be subject to controls that can be ordered at any time by NSW Corrective Services commissioner Ron Woodham.

The crackdown will stop money being sent by sympathisers on the outside to influence inmates to convert to Islam................."

, and it goes on, but suffice to say that Islam is trying to create a powerbase inside our jail system, that should concern everyone.

I do not think it is alarmist to state that the potential for extremist Islamic groups, to promote and foster hostile cells of indigenous australians, is not a future that any of us would wish to see.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:17am:


Proselytise in jails and half-way houses... Gee if only Christian evangelists had've thought of that...

Come on... It's hardly a revelation that a religion which requires adherents to proselytise does so in places where people are likely to be at a spiritual ebb.

If secularists (or even Christians) are going to outdo Islamic proselytizers among Australia’s most disenfranchised, they need to make an alternative more appealing.

I believe Australians, being generally a secular people, have been complacent for a long time with regards to the driving of religion from mainstream influence. Strict religious (i.e. Christian) observance has been marginalized in Australia. Enter Islam, still a very potent cultural and societal force wherever it’s practised, and secularists have been somewhat caught off-guard - Christians, I contend, have a sense of rivalry regarding Islam’s still powerful influence over societal morality.

Perhaps secularists need a strong dogma to compete. Both Islam and Christianity offer an alternative to despair and a possible exit from poverty of thought and spirit. It is utterly pointless challenging Islam (or Christianity) by deconstructing its holy texts or trying to expose its alleged dark side – it’s as futile as being angry at the moon. Islam is an ancient cultural and religious force that has many centuries ago proved its endurance. It offers an answer to the great philosophical question “How should I live?” and whether you agree with it or not, you have to concede that for a very large number of people it is successful in its offer.

Secularism has much to offer too, but the main argument which appears to be offered here is that secularism offers freedom. Freedom to say whatever I please, freedom to do (within the law) as I please. Freedom to determine my moral code without regard to the community in which I live if I choose. Freedom to adhere to no moral code at all. Freedom to be free… freedom, freedom, freedom…

Except freedom from choice.

Absolute freedom is not invariably what everyone desires. As the great existentialist, Jean-Paul Sartre told us rather bleakly, “Existentialist despair and anguish is the acknowledgement that man is condemned to freedom”. Clearly there are problems with the notion of absolute freedom.

What moral code does secularism offer (apart from freedom all the time)?

Answer that question, or develop a secularist code (a secularist religion, if you will) which offers the same quality of redemption from existential despair... and both Islam and Christianity will have a force to contend with.

Many people become Muslim in prison, I agree with that.

Indigenous Australians tend identify with Islam because of the social justice element as their land was stolen from them.

We however really crack down and don't allow people who are extremists or even thought to be extremists to enter the prison system here in Victoria. They have tried but we're quickly kicked out. We work very closely with Corrections Victoria and police on these issues.

You know, I even approve of Muslim or any other religious groups proselytizing in prisons.

What these people in the prison system lack is discipline in life. They will certainly get that from Islam.  They'll get the same from Christianity. If they can get these people to reform their lives using religion as a tool, good luck to them.

The thing that I personally fear is that one religious group will become more powerful than the rest.  That's when individual liberties will be eroded as they have in the past with the strong church lobby.

Christians need a bit of competition. I'd love to lock a group of fervent born-again Baptists in a room with some equally fervent Muslims.

"Islam is the fourth largest religious grouping in Australia after Christianity, 'No Religion' and Buddhism. According to the 2006 census, approximately 340,392 people or 1.71%[1] of the population identify as Muslim.

While this figure does represent a large numerical increase compared to the 2001 and 1996 census results (281,578 and 200,885 respectively), it should be noted that the rate of increase has slowed considerably (21% in 2001-06 vs 40% for 1996-2001)."

(Based on ABS Statistics)

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 3:15pm:


It's only an abuse of authority when it's imposed by governments. Many parents are voluntarily allowing their children the freedom to not be brainwashed with religious bigotry from birth. They do that by sending their children to schools that teach religion in the context of a liberal educational system where the children have freedom of thought. By far the majority of religion in Australia is already in that category.

There is also direct evidence that where freedom of thought is not suppressed, students end up with a much more balanced outlook on life, and more intelligent too. (You're going to ask me to supply that evidence)

Quote:


I actually agree with most of what you wrote there.

Sure, they don't like hedonism etc, but they wouldn't exactly want us to go back to burning witches at the stake, inquisitions, the king (or PM) being God's rep on earth, or any kind of legal punishment for not being Christian.

Trying to create a secular belief 'system' would be like trying to herd cats. They are just as troublesome as religious systems. The American constitution is about as close as you can get, if you ignore the references to God. But someone thought it would be a good idea to include the right to bear arms. No doubt any system you came up with today would cause headaches in a centruy or two, if you got people to start 'believing' in it. Trying to limit it to a purely 'moral' code would be just as troublesome. That's sort of what our modern legal system is. The fraternity I joined in the US had some kind of 'oath' (forget the term) that was suitably short, moral and irreligious, but was totally vague in that it was completely left open what it meant in practice. No doubt other 'societies' have their own version, but i can't see any of them getting you anywhere. All religions inevitably splinter. Your secular moral code would splinter into a different version for every single person, that changed as they went through life.

But feel free to prove me wrong. This would be a great topic for a new thread.

So people come to you for advice or whatever? How does it actually work? Do you sit in a room and they can wander in freely? Or do they have to book?