Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 8:10am:


And Christian armies obliterated (or attempted to obliterate) competing religions and belief systems on every continent on earth by killing for Christ.

that you or I would give less credence to the sources he chooses does not diminish the fact that he is genuinely looking for answers

It is reasonable to trust a Christian website for information about Christianity, but not about Islam or middle eastern history around the time of Muhammed. It does diminish any claims to be seeking the truth. Rather it points to a search for a validation of prejudgements.

mozzaok wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 11:16am:


I believe he is an Islamiphobe who conveniently ignores issues with his own brand of religious dogma and resists every attempt to help him understand Muslim thought. I would not be surprised if he parrots the same routine in any forum he can find, whether his assertions have been refuted or not. His is the way of mistrust and xenophobia and should be challenged at every opportunity. German anti-semitism grew out of all proportion thanks to the likes of the brilliant minded haters such as Martin Luther whose evil diatribes against Jews culminated in the holocaust (check the date of Martin Luther's birthday and the date of Krystallnacht...). For every atrocity committed by the very few Muslims in the name of Islam, there are examples of Christians doing the same in the name of Jesus. Don't you think the Islamic and Judaic worlds are full of stories of religious atrocities committed against them in the name of Christ? Even the great Pope John Paul II prayed for forgiveness of the Catholic Church for its acts of omission and commission against Jews, Muslims, Gypsies et al... including mass genocide.

Islam is an ancient faith that has existed for nearly a millennium and a half, it's not just going to disintegrate. It will remain an immense cultural force for most likely hundreds of years into the future. I believe the way forward is not to deconstruct its religious texts in aid of denigrating the faith (every religious doctrine can be misused to justify every evil act... and has been), but to look for commonalities and ways in which we can learn to live together. There are shining examples where Christians and Muslims live in harmony both maintaining a deep and abiding respect for each other's faith. Those are the examples we should be discussing. We don't have to agree nor do we have to believe what others believe but we have a responsibility to respect other cultures and belief systems so that we are immune to the Luthers and the Hitlers who would have us commit murder through a misguided and dangerous sense of cultural superiority.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 11:58am:


Well said!

Doesn't the church want to spread the gospel to the entire world?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 1:41pm:


In the end, you're finishing off with contempt, self-pity and self-aggrandisement.

As I've said before, read some of Luther's rants to see Christian hatred in full bloom or just listen to some raving televangelist to see the ugly side of Christianity. You see Christianity as only a force for peace because you imagine it to be true all the time. It has also been a force for evil and war when twisted by evil minds. Islam has been so misused as well.

Time for a reality check, Islamism is a problem.
Merely stating that there are bad christians does not diminish that fact.
Subjugating our freedoms and principles, so as to not offend Islamic sensibilities is not something which I am prepared to do.
I would like to be able to deal with people without having to even know their religious beliefs, much less alter my behaviour to accommodate their delusions.

mozzaok wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 4:42pm:


The bad Christians that you've mentioned are not an indication of the moral worth of Christianity; nor are they an indication of Christians as a whole.

Yes, there are bad Christians but there are also good Christians. The problems that need solving are the bad Christians, not Christians as a whole and certainly not Christianity itself.

Christian zealots (and yourself) place blanket blame on Islam and all Muslims on account of some bad Muslims.

You misunderstand our point. No one is placating them. No one is bending over backwards trying not to offend them. It fact, f**k radical Muslims and extremists! They deserve the most severe punishment available for their crimes. However, Muslims are overwhelmingly good, just as Christians are overwhelmingly good. You do the majority an injustice by subjugating them wholesale.

And, why should you change your behaviour? They are normal people. Why assume that they have any delusions? I don't conduct my business by assuming that people is going to bible bash me any more than a Muslim trying to convert me to radical Islam (or kill me with their bomb belt). Why react any differently on account of their fashion, their accent or the colour of their skin? Do you feel that you need to watch what you say when speaking to a Jew for fear of offending them and being labelled anti-Semitic? Do you have an anxiety problem? You're just like the cliche woman walking down the street clutching her bag tightly when she sees a black man walking towards her; only to have him pass by without incident.

Ask yourself this - do you know exactly what our freedoms and principles are? Do they apply for all? Or, just Australians? Or, just Christian Australians? Do you not see that by wontonly defaming innocent moderate Muslims in the effort of preventing the sudjugation of our principles you are in fact the culprit against it?