Australian Politics Forum - The much maligned christian crusades.

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #15 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 4:01pm You get to find out what other people really think, rather than regurgitated 3rd hand myths.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #16 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 4:05pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 3:48pm: acid - Al Jazeera news as a source ? what info do you gleam from there, how to tie bombs on ?? You're a bit behind the times, Sprint. Even the US media and military are working with AL Jazeera.
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Acid Monkey Gold Member Offline Goth Father Posts: 1064 EU Gender:	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #17 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 4:08pm edit Post deleted and moved to Trench Treachery thread as advised by FD. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1212726620/203#203
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King Billy New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #18 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 5:23pm The Crusades are as much about religion as the current war in Iraq is about democracy. Real estate, it is all about real estate. Bill
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Acid Monkey

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #19 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 5:36pm

King Billy wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 5:23pm:

The Crusades are as much about religion as the current war in Iraq is about democracy.

Real estate, it is all about real estate.

Bill

Hi Bill. Welcome.

Real estate is certainly the Vatican's agenda with religious justification. They swore to rid the Holy Land of the Muslim hoardes at all cost. For the average footmen it was all about the loot.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 39522 Gender:	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #20 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 8:50am Bill and acid - both of your comments are in complete agreeance with my first posting on this thread. It makes sense, is logical. Christians were being savagely overrun and pushed back. Then reclaimed their previously held ground.
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Malik Shakur Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 799 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #21 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 9:15am Hey Sprint, being good Christians.. Shouldn't they have turned the other cheek?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #22 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 9:17am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 24^th, 2008 at 8:50am:

Bill and acid - both of your comments are in complete agreeance with my first posting on this thread.

It makes sense, is logical.

Christians were being savagely overrun and pushed back.
Then reclaimed their previously held ground.

Never mind enduring centuries of being overrun by murderous Christian hordes. Christian armies have murdered their way through every continent on earth... Killing for Christ.

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Acid Monkey

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #23 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 10:52am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 24^th, 2008 at 8:50am:

Bill and acid - both of your comments are in complete agreeance with my first posting on this thread.

It makes sense, is logical.

Christians were being savagely overrun and pushed back.
Then reclaimed their previously held ground.

Sprint, I don't dispute the fact that the Muslim occupied the Holy Land since the 7th century. I don't dispute the fact that the Byzantenian Empire asked Christians countries for help. Muslims held Jerusalem for 400 years before it was decided that the Christian world should reclaim the Holy Land at all cost. These are already in history books.

Your original post asserts that the key reason for the First Crusades was not the work of an ambitious and zealot Pope but as a response from the advancing Muslim hordes. Advancing? They've been there for 400 years. If there was such a concern about reclaiming back land why wait 400 years to do so, and only after the pleas of the Byzantenian Empire?

You original post was from a bias source - a Roman Catholic, Crusades and Inquisition apologist. He is of the same vein as Holocaust deniers.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #24 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 7:03am Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 24^th, 2008 at 9:15am: Hey Sprint, being good Christians.. Shouldn't they have turned the other cheek? Touché!
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #25 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 8:10am

Hi malik and helian - re "turning the other cheek."
They had done that for 100's of years.
Only to find the militant extremist muslims were determined to dominate the world and subjugate every infidel.

Hey - same as is in the koran and espoused by many clerics.

Where is the directions in the new testament for :-
"Christian armies have murdered their way through every continent on earth... Killing for Christ." ??

Only one belief has a treastie to war for their "script.".

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muso

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #26 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 8:20am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 8:10am:

Hi malik and helian - re "turning the other cheek."
They had done that for 100's of years.
Only to find the militant extremist muslims were determined to dominate the world and subjugate every infidel.

It never ceases to amaze me just how self-righteous and arrogant Monotheist Abrahamic religions can be. You don't find the same arrogance in the Hindu or Buddhist sacred scripts.

"for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God"

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

I came not to send peace, but a sword. ... A man's foes shall be they of his own household."

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. "

and the Qur'an:

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #27 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 9:53am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 8:10am:

Hi malik and helian - re "turning the other cheek."
They had done that for 100's of years.
Only to find the militant extremist muslims were determined to dominate the world and subjugate every infidel.

Hey - same as is in the koran and espoused by many clerics.

Where is the directions in the new testament for :-
"Christian armies have murdered their way through every continent on earth... Killing for Christ." ??

Only one belief has a treastie to war for their "script.".

Sprint, grow up. Nobody presumes turning the other cheek means allowing anyone to deal to you with impunity. Every child in the playground learns that if you don't stand up to the bullies you'll be tormented till you do... Or you'll break.

Christian armies have used the New Testament to justify murdering whomsoever they please, whenever and wherever they please. As I have said previously read Martin Luther's "On the Jews and their Lies" and believe me Sprint, he was a theologian of immense renown, skill and incalculable influence.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The much maligned christian crusades.
Reply #28 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 10:43am

Helian - so the crusaders were justified then ?

Sorry, I have been much too busy to read martin luthers book.
Christians have far from always done the right thing.
Anyone could use one of "The brothers GrimM" books use use as an excuse to attack something to get the land.
Has little reflection on the brother grimm book.

muso - good quotes.
there is a good jealousy. eg, you may be jealous for your child.

The sword is the bible :
"Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."Ephesians 6:17

"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. "
Hebrews 4:12

The other two.
From my experience, when I bacame a christian, my then wife was at variance with me.
Though she said I had became a better man, she still divorced me.

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Acid Monkey Gold Member Offline Goth Father Posts: 1064 EU Gender:	Re: The much maligned christian crusades. Reply #29 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 10:58am Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 10:43am: From my experience, when I bacame a christian.... Sprint, does that mean that you are a born-again Christian? That explains a lot.
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