Australian Politics Forum - US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'

easel

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #45 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 8:02pm

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 7:23pm:

Most of the wars fought in modern times ie. the last 100 years have been secular wars, no one could doubt that.

I doubt that. Most of the major wars in the last 100 years were not secular. Oh wait, you think Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq are all wars about imposing Christianity.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #46 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 8:11pm

easel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 8:02pm:

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 7:23pm:

Most of the wars fought in modern times ie. the last 100 years have been secular wars, no one could doubt that.

I doubt that. Most of the major wars in the last 100 years were not secular. Oh wait, you think Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq are all wars about imposing Christianity.

No, Christianity has no proper form of government because it's the distortion of a message sent by God through the Prophet Jesus pbuh,

I'm using Sprints logic that if a Muslim does something, it must be Islam's fault. So all of those wars were fought and ordered by Christians, thus according to Sprint's logic (not my own) Christianity MUST be responsible. They were also secular nations so secularism can also be blamed.. We can blame Christian Secularism for the Majority of the wars, and only secularism for the rest.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus' Reply #47 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 8:49pm Are you for real? You make outlandish false claims, and then say oh, that's they way sprint thinks so I'm going to use it to. You yourself have called sprint a fundamentalist and implied he was narrow minded and stupid. Are you these things also?
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Malik Shakur

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #48 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 8:57pm

easel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 8:49pm:

Are you for real?

You make outlandish false claims, and then say oh, that's they way sprint thinks so I'm going to use it to.

You yourself have called sprint a fundamentalist and implied he was narrow minded and stupid.

Are you these things also?

No, I'm demonstrating to sprint the lack of logic in his arguments. If he makes those accusations about Islam I'll apply the same standards and logic he uses to Christianity and Secularism and show him that his own fanatical beliefs wont stand that test either.

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easel

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #49 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:00pm

Wow, just like primary school name calling. If you think so lowly of him, as previously posted, why would you stoop to his level?

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:25pm:

Hmmm that's interesting because it was Christians who massacred 6million jews in WW2 and not Muslims.. Christians who attacked Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

Is what you wrote to me. Which is laughable, as we already discussed. We have not had a Christian Holy War for a looooooong time. Muslim holy wars? All very recent.

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Aussie

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #50 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:06pm

Way back up there, Malik posted:

Quote:

Joseph married Mary when she was 12-14 and he was 90. Does that make him a pedophile?

That is news to me, and if true, that would, on today's standards make the father of Jesus, Joseph or some other, a paedophile.

It is said that poor old Joe was not the father of his Wife's child.

Yeah.

Unravel that.

Cheesy

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Malik Shakur

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #51 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:06pm

easel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:00pm:

Wow, just like primary school name calling. If you think so lowly of him, as previously posted, why would you stoop to his level?

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:25pm:

Hmmm that's interesting because it was Christians who massacred 6million jews in WW2 and not Muslims.. Christians who attacked Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

Is what you wrote to me. Which is laughable, as we already discussed. We have not had a Christian Holy War for a looooooong time. Muslim holy wars? All very recent.

No, it's not laughable at all. You apply similar standards to Islam that sprint does. Tell me, do you honestly think a good Christian would have fought in any of those wars unless he thought he was doing what God expected of him?

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easel

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #52 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:26pm

Islam is inherently violent.

A TRUE Christian would not get involved in any war.

Thou shalt not kill.

But then again, just because someone identifies with a religion, does not necessarily make them particularly religious.

Like the Muslim girl I was with. She didn't wear a veil and would drink and hit the pokies.

Yet she was a Muslim.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #53 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:53pm

easel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:26pm:

Islam is inherently violent.

A TRUE Christian would not get involved in any war.

Thou shalt not kill.

But then again, just because someone identifies with a religion, does not necessarily make them particularly religious.

Like the Muslim girl I was with. She didn't wear a veil and would drink and hit the pokies.

Yet she was a Muslim.

If you say Islam is inherently violent then Christianity is also as inherently violent according to your own logic, because God ordered the other Prophets pbut to go and kill in his name.

In the bible Jesus pbuh also ordered his desciples to sell their clothes and tools and buy swords instead to protect themselves from those who came to get Jesus pbuh, indicating that they had the right to defend themselves should they be attacked.

And the Hebrew translation for your commandment there is thou shalt not MURDER, not thou shalt not kill.

Murder is if you had no valid reason to kill, but killing is much broader and can be justified.

Islam forbids killing innocent people, yet Al-Qaeda does it all the time, so they arent' particularly religious then aren't they?

The Qur'an states:

005.032
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

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freediver

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #54 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:57pm

You make outlandish false claims, and then say oh, that's they way sprint thinks so I'm going to use it to.

You are missing the point easel. He was trying to explain Sprint's faulty logic, by pointing out the absurd outcome if the same standards were applied in a less hypocritical way. That is how I have interpreted all of his comments - not that he actually thinks Christianity is to blame for WWI, WWII, Vietnam etc.

A TRUE Christian would not get involved in any war.

I find that hard to believe easel. I think this is a misrepresentation of Christian doctrine.

Thou shalt not kill.

I think a more appropriate translation of this is thou shalt not murder. It has a slightly different connotation. Killing in a war is not murder. The same legal definition of murder applied then that applies today.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #55 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 10:19pm

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:57pm:

You make outlandish false claims, and then say oh, that's they way sprint thinks so I'm going to use it to.

You are missing the point easel. He was trying to explain Sprint's faulty logic, by pointing out the absurd outcome if the same standards were applied in a less hypocritical way. That is how I have interpreted all of his comments - not that he actually thinks Christianity is to blame for WWI, WWII, Vietnam etc.

A TRUE Christian would not get involved in any war.

I find that hard to believe easel. I think this is a misrepresentation of Christian doctrine.

Thou shalt not kill.

I think a more appropriate translation of this is thou shalt not murder. It has a slightly different connotation. Killing in a war is not murder. The same legal definition of murder applied then that applies today.

Thank you FD, I couldn't have put it any better myself.

May God reward you

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Acid Monkey

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #56 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 10:24pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 9:06pm:

Way back up there, Malik posted:

Quote:

Joseph married Mary when she was 12-14 and he was 90. Does that make him a pedophile?

That is news to me, and if true, that would, on today's standards make the father of Jesus, Joseph or some other, a paedophile.

It is said that poor old Joe was not the father of his Wife's child.

Yeah.

Unravel that.

Cheesy

Actually Aussie, it's widely accepted by theologians and historians alike that Joseph was around that age when he married Mary. Yes, Joseph was not the father of Jesus, if you believe the Immaculate Conception. However, it is also accepted that Joseph did have children with Mary after Jesus. Does that make him a paedophile?

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Malik Shakur

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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #57 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 10:35pm

Acid Monkey wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 10:24pm:

Actually Aussie, it's widely accepted by theologians and historians alike that Joseph was around that age when he married Mary. Yes, Joseph was not the father of Jesus, if you believe the Immaculate Conception. However, it is also accepted that Joseph did have children with Mary after Jesus. Does that make him a paedophile?

Thank you Acid Monkey,

This is what I mean, can people like Sprint and others hold Christianity up to the same standards they judge Islam by?

Obviously not.

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