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US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus' (Read 8948 times)
mozzaok
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US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Jun 19th, 2008 at 9:46am
 
Well the US supreme court has ruled, 5 to 4, in favour of returning the rights of Habeus Corpus to detained non US citizens, a la Guantanamo style.

It is a major victory for those who feared the erosion of legal rights proliferating under the NeoCon driven whitehouse, would continue to grow.

I wonder if we may be seeing a turning point where we will see the US step back from the brink of exploiting fear to install dangerous and extreme totalitarian values as laws.

I wonder if any of you have views on how this decision may reflect on David Hick's case.
Will he now have a right to seek compensation for the denial of his legal rights for so long?

Here is the link to the judges opinion if interested, it is long and legalistic, but may be of some interest to those with the time to digest it.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=06-1195
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mozzaok
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 9:56am
 
I just saw this cartoon which made me think how it feels when I am arguing with FD, like we did in the "ban faith schools" thread.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:38am
 
I thought it was the wrong decision entirely.

Who is US trying to defend ?
What are the repercussions of tjhis.
Will see if I can find an article about it I posted the other day.

Foolish leftard decision.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:42am
 
She espouses my thoughts.
We are fools.


"IF we conducted an audit of civil liberties, the result would go something like this. If you are an alleged terrorist detained at Guantanamo Bay, suspected of waging murderous jihad against the West, you can count on a certain class of vocal Westerners defending your right to a fair trial. Fair enough. But if you’re a right-wing commentator who publishes views that may offend the feelings of a minority group, don’t count on much support for your rights: your right to free speech or your right to a fair trial. Go figure.
Before we nut out that grotesque hypocrisy, it’s worth considering whether the US Supreme Court’s decision last week is the terrific win it appears to be for terrorism suspects. In a 5-4 decision, the Supreme Court held that foreign terrorism suspects detained at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba have constitutional rights to challenge their detention in US courts. In balancing the principles of civil liberties and national security, not all judges agreed the rights of Gitmo detainees should prevail. Justice Antonin Scalia said: “The nation will live to regret what the court has done today.”
As The Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto noted, for all the wailing about the evils of Gitmo, “perhaps decades from now we will learn that detainees ended up being abused in some far-off place because the Government closed Guantanamo in response to judicial meddling. Even those who support what the court did today may live to regret it.”
And as Chief Justice John Roberts concluded, the majority’s decision was no win for democracy. Stripping Congress of power, the American people lost “a bit more control over the conduct of this nation’s foreign policy to unelected, politically unaccountable judges”.
For now, though, supporters of the Supreme Court decision have celebrated it as a grand victory for civil liberties. In triumphant tones they cite the words of Justice Anthony Kennedy. “The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times.” Perhaps the champions of the civil liberties of detained terrorism suspects could cast their eyes over another trial involving a different civil liberty. It’s too bad that “in extraordinary times”, the right to free speech has been on one heck of a speedy downward trajectory.
In Canada, columnist Mark Steyn and Maclean’s magazine have been hauled in front of British Columbia’s Human Rights Tribunal. They have been accused of “flagrant Islamaphobia” after the magazine ran extracts from Steyn’s best-selling book American Alone. The book explores the West’s demographic challenges arising from different birthrates of Muslims and non-Muslims. Some Muslims were outraged by such talk and by Steyn’s reference to a Norwegian imam who said that Muslims bred “like mosquitoes”.
You could not make this stuff up if you tried. It’s a show trial. Canadian human rights tribunals have a 100 per cent conviction rate on so-called “hate speech” cases. BC’s tribunal can order Maclean’s to stop publishing Steyn’s articles and, indeed, any other articles likely to expose Muslims to hatred or contempt.
Think about that. Pre-emptive state censorship means that opinions about Islam’s relationship with the West have effectively been banned because they offend some Muslims.
Pumped-up activists are wasting no time in exploiting Canada’s feeble appeasement. Khurrum Awan, one of the main witnesses against Maclean’s, told the Canadian Arab Federation last week that the Canadian press needed more Muslim voices instead. Muslims had to “demand that right to participate” in the national media, Awan said. “And you know what, if you’re not going to allow us to do that, there will be consequences. You will be taken to the human rights commission, you will be taken to the press council, and you know what? If you manage to get rid of the human rights code provisions (on hate speech), we will then take you to the civil courts system. And you know what? Some judge out there might just think that perhaps it’s time to have a tort of group defamation, and you might be liable for a few million dollars.”
And you know what? Don’t count on this being a wacky ambit claim. The West is falling over itself to accommodate even the most precious and perverse sensibilities of minorities. As Steyn said, “The problem with so-called hate speech laws is that they’re not about facts. They’re about feelings.” The result is a chilling restriction of free speech.
Here in Australia, NSW Bar Association president Anna Katzmann SC has been quick to defend Australia’s hate speech laws as a justifiable limitation on free speech. But remember where hate speech laws take us. A few years ago, two Christian pastors were taken to court under the Victorian Racial and Religious Vilification Act for vilifying Muslims for criticising aspects of Islam. While the case was tossed out on appeal, why were these two men hauled over the legal coals in the first place for simply voicing concerns about Islam? "

To be contd
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:42am
 
Here in Australia, NSW Bar Association president Anna Katzmann SC has been quick to defend Australia’s hate speech laws as a justifiable limitation on free speech. But remember where hate speech laws take us. A few years ago, two Christian pastors were taken to court under the Victorian Racial and Religious Vilification Act for vilifying Muslims for criticising aspects of Islam. While the case was tossed out on appeal, why were these two men hauled over the legal coals in the first place for simply voicing concerns about Islam? "

Stephen Boissoin was not so lucky. In another example of the state’s powers of coercion, last month the Human Rights Panel of Alberta in Canada imposed a lifetime ban preventing this Christian preacher from voicing his views about homosexuality “in newspapers, by email, onthe radio, in public speeches or on the internet”.
When human rights are stretched to include the right not to be offended, the result is a deadly bullet to free speech. As The New York Times explored last week, there is a growing trend in many Western countries, Australia included, to curtail free speech in the name of social cohesion.
But as Harvey Silverglate, a civil liberties lawyer from Massachusetts, told the Times, “Free speech matters because it works.” Free debate, not censorship, is the key to combating hate speech, particularly after September 11, he said. “The world didn’t suffer because too many people read Mein Kampf. Sending Hitler on a speaking tour of the US would have been quite a good idea.”
Like a nervous parent too afraid to say no to a pushy child, the West’s readiness to slay free speech on the altar of minority sensibilities only encourages more demands to limit open debate. According to Pakistan’s Daily Times, Pakistan is sending a high-level six-member delegation to the European Union headquarters in Brussels. It will be asking EU countries to amend free-speech laws to stop the printing of blasphemous caricatures of the Muslim prophet Mohammed and anti-Islam films such as the one recently produced by Dutch MP Geert Wilders. Let’s watch which way the EU goes.
The balance sheet on the West’s commitment to free speech could do with a positive entry. But don’t count on it. Unless, that is, those who so vocally defend the rights of suspected terrorists start defending, with equal enthusiasm, the rights of those with whom they disagree. "


http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/jan..._balance_sheet/
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:49am
 
Here is another link to an opinion piece from the alternative news site, 'alternet' , I know it is seen as a counterpoint to the more conservative biased news sources, but it does have some good stuff on it, you just need to use your personal judgement.
The author does address the conservatives' attempt to portray this ruling as diminishing safety for America, so may address your concerns in that regard.


http://www.alternet.org/rights/88402/?page=1
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:57am
 
Mixing the issue of Canada's assault on free speech, and the US's on legal rights is invalid sprint, it is not a matter of choosing one or the other.

I agree that Canada has gone too far, as has most of the west, in pandering to real, or feigned, sensitivity to derision which muslims protest about.
They have no qualms about calling for jihad, or death for cartoonists or commentators who they target, but demand we not challenge any of their views. If hate speech were the criteria then many 'holy texts' would be banned, as well as many preachings from Islamic clerics.

This however does not mean we sacrifice long held legal rights in a tit for tat erosion of principles.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 11:05am
 
Mozzaok - I value different viewpoints.
Feel free to post portions of that article here.


Securing the law abiding public from islamics is paramount.
Those that wish to destroy OUR freedom do not merit any "benefits" from it.
Be assured, they hate us and want to kill us all.
Their "learned" clerics encourage them on.
Their families take pride in them.


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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #8 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 5:46pm
 
Then why bothering having a trial at all?

If we just assume because they are muslins they are guilty, why go to all of the bother of obtaining a conviction?

If we take away their right to a trial, who will be the next to be denied the right to presumption of innocence?

The US made their bed, now they have trouble in lying in it.

Bill
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #9 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 7:02pm
 
Hi King Billy,

How are you ? Good to have you here.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #10 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 7:12pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:38am:
I thought it was the wrong decision entirely.

Who is US trying to defend ?
What are the repercussions of tjhis.
Will see if I can find an article about it I posted the other day.

Foolish leftard decision.


Sorry, I didn't get that - what was the wrong decision? The US abolishing habeus corpus? Or the US restoring it? The repercussions of both decisions are obvious.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #11 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 7:14pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 11:05am:
Be assured, they hate us and want to kill us all.



Yep, all 1.6 billion of them - every single one of them hate us. A llittle paranoid, sprint?
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #12 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 7:15pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:38am:
I thought it was the wrong decision entirely.

Who is US trying to defend ?
What are the repercussions of tjhis.
Will see if I can find an article about it I posted the other day.

Foolish leftard decision.

Oh Yes! God forbid that people should have the right to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence until being proven guilty!

Those are the values which we stand for right? In our higher than thou attitude in saying that our democracy is more civilized than theirs is, that their governments are bad and backward dictators because they oppress their people by not giving them a fair trial, they keep them in prison for years without a any trial nor any charges and torture them to gain information. Where the burden of proof of one's innocence is that which has to be provided by the accused, and if they can't prove it, they rot in prison or die.

Yes, with your frame of mind Sprint, we are SO MUCH BETTER than them. You honestly disgust me if you believe that it is the right way to treat another person. I pray that someone like you never gets into Australian government, and the day someone like you does end up running this country will be the day I and many other patriotic and law abiding Australians decide to either fight against and resist such tyranny or leave the nation to the pack of hyenas that your kind is are.

The US Supreme court made the right decision and have proven that the system works. I sincerely believe that the US Constitution inclusive of its Bill of Rights is perhaps the most perfect document written by man as a system of government. and I honestly believe that the people in the Middle East want the same rights as those outlined in the US constitution and deserve them too.

Sprint you are a total hypocrite, speaking about your values being so much better but the fact is you are just as bad as people like Saddam Hussein with the way you'd have people treated.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #13 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 7:16pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 9:46am:
It is a major victory for those who feared the erosion of legal rights proliferating under the NeoCon driven whitehouse, would continue to grow.



Yep, a win but a narrow one. It could have easily gone the other way. It shows that the US are not totally ready to accept it yet.
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Re: US supreme court restores 'Habeus Corpus'
Reply #14 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 7:17pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 11:05am:
Mozzaok - I value different viewpoints.
Feel free to post portions of that article here.


Securing the law abiding public from islamics is paramount.
Those that wish to destroy OUR freedom do not merit any "benefits" from it.
Be assured, they hate us and want to kill us all.
Their "learned" clerics encourage them on.
Their families take pride in them.



Hitler did the same thing, he took away everyones freedoms to give them security from 'terrorists' and then committed genocide.

You seem more and more like him with every post
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