If they did as you suggest, I'ld be fine to have them in Aussie.
But if they did that, they would be breaking the koran.

At least some of them have the guts to stand up and say what their goal is.


Bring in the wiccans, pagans, athiests, agnostics, buddhists and satanists by the boat load.
They're fine and pose no threat to anyone.
I particularily like the wiccans and athiests. Just good people to chat and live with.
Pagans and agnostics are a bit wishywashy, but that's not at all a drama !!!

malik - please interperet these quotes for me.


"Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

Men take authority over women... As for those who are disobedient, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. 4:34

mozzaok wrote on Jun 1^st, 2008 at 3:04pm:


Stoned to death for committing adultery

Dylan Welch
April 3, 2008 - 8:45AM

Advertisement
A man and a woman have reportedly been stoned to death by the Taliban after being found guilty of adultery by a tribal court in Pakistan's border region.

The stoning was carried out in a tribal area on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan where the Taliban has a strong presence, Pakistani newspaper Dawn reported.

The killings are the first recorded incident of death by stoning by the militants, who usually put accused before firing squads, the newspaper stated.

The pair had been captured by the Taliban after eloping about two weeks ago from a border area known as the Mohmand Agency.

A complaint was made that the woman, married to another man, had been kidnapped but it was later reported that she had actually eloped.

A spokesman for the local Taliban told the newspaper the militants had captured them as they returned from Karachi.

They tried the couple, found them guilty and sentenced them to death by stoning.

After the executions were carried out the man's body was handed over to his relatives. The body of the woman was buried in the area by local people, the newspaper stated.

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/04/03/1206851052700.html

Iran confirms man stoned to death for adultery

The Associated Press
Tuesday, July 10, 2007
TEHRAN, Iran: A man convicted of adultery was stoned to death last week in a village in northern Iran, an Iranian judiciary spokesman said Tuesday, the first time in years that the country has confirmed such an execution.

Jafar Kiani was stoned to death Thursday in Aghchekand, 200 kilometers (124 miles) west of Tehran, said spokesman Ali Reza Jamshidi.

Death sentences are carried out in Iran after they are upheld by the Supreme Court. Under Iran's Islamic law, adultery is punishable by stoning.

Jamshidi did not elaborate on how the stoning was carried out. Under Islamic rulings, a man is usually buried up to his waist, while a woman is buried up to her neck with her hands also buried. Those carrying out the verdict then throw stones until the condemned dies.

International human rights groups have long criticized stoning in Iran as a "cruel and barbaric" punishment.

Before Iran's confirmation, U.N. human rights chief Louise Arbour condemned the execution, her spokesman said.

"The execution has apparently gone ahead despite Iran's moratorium on execution by stoning, a moratorium that had been in effect since 2002," said Jose Diaz of U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights.

"Stoning is in clear violation of international law," Diaz said in Geneva. He said Arbour considered stoning to be a form of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment that is prohibited under an international treaty that Iran has signed.

In Oslo, Norway, Iran's ambassador was summoned by Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere to protest the stoning, the Norwegian Foreign Ministry said.

Stoere was "deeply upset" that the death penalty had been carried out and called stoning an "inhumane and barbaric method of punishment," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Frode Andersen.

The reported execution came two weeks after international pressure, including protests from Norway, caused Iranian officials to delay carrying out the sentence against Kiani and his female companion, Mokarrameh Ebrahimi, who also was sentenced to death by stoning. It was not known if a date had been set for her execution.

Norway's embassy in Teheran will try to arrange for representatives of the international community to visit Ebrahimi in prison, the Norwegian foreign ministry said.

The couple had reportedly been imprisoned for 11 years.

Stoning was widely imposed in the early years after the 1979 Islamic revolution that toppled the pro-Western Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and brought hard-line clerics to power. But in recent years, it has seldom been applied, although the government rarely confirms when it carries out stoning sentences.

There is no official report of the last time Iran stoned someone to death, but there were unconfirmed media reports that a couple was stoned in 2006 in the northeastern town of Mashhad.

Women's rights activists headed by feminist lawyer Shadi Sadr have been campaigning to have the sentence removed from Iran's statutes.

Iran's reformist legislators have demanded an end to death by stoning as a punishment for adultery, but opposition from hard-line clerics sidelined their efforts.

Capital offenses in Iran include murder, rape, armed robbery, apostasy, blasphemy, serious drug trafficking, adultery or prostitution, treason and espionage.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/10/africa/ME-GEN-Iran-Stoning.php

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 1^st, 2008 at 4:26am:

Sprint have you read Tabari and seen those for statements for yourself?

I do believe I have also clarified the issue of beating women in Islam in another thread. But I'll clarify it again for you.

And I really think you do not understand the proper meaning behind the verses you are referring to in the Qur'an when it comes to beating.

Let's take a look at the verse properly.

004.034
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

It says in the verse that if your wife is disobedient to admonish her, if she continues to do so then to refuse to share your bed with her.. If that continues and you find use in it to 'beat' her lightly. But what does it mean by beat?

In this context and by the examples of the prophet we are told that the force one should use is as if u were to beat her with a feather and even then not on the head, face or front of the body.

It is to be used in only extreme cases where it is the last option before divorcing her. It is done not to cause physical harm but to shock her into seeing the gravity of the situation.

If one goes through their marriage being very patient with their wife no matter the headaches she gives him, but then in one situation finds his wife to be doing something so abhorrent and not reforming after admonishing her and refusing to share his bed with her. Then one is allowed to 'beat' her lightly to get the message across that if she continues it will result in divorce. If up until that point in time you have been completely patient with her no matter her attitude then even if you did 'beat' her as softly as mentioned it would shock her enough to know that you are very serious.

I will also mention that the prophet Muhammad pbuh never beat his wives, he showed us that such behaviour was even abhorrent to him. He was the most patient and merciful of all men.

Thanks again Malik.
Your posts regarding the stoning of men was interesting, and I had not seen them reported.
The fact is that in both cases it was couples, whose crime was to fall in love, and to try and escape from a barbaric and primitive, medieval system which sought to torture them to death for this crime, which would be accepted as mundane, if unfortunate, in any other culture but that of Islam.
To see that they are killed in such a brutal way, for what is not really a crime in the mind of any, but the most extreme religious fanatics, only goes to highlight the cultural divide that lays between Islam, and the rest of the world.

The parenthisised qualifications you used to try and make the Islamic practice of wife beating seem less barbaric and backward than it is does not really bear any resemblance to the realities of what actually occurs.
I hardly think an enraged husband, who thinks of his wife as his inferior, and his possession, is going to ask her to pass the feather while he gives her a sound thrashing with it.
What you are offering up is in fact merely apologetic, and inaccurate justification of something which, either you know in your heart to be wrong, or you know to be so abhorrent to the general population that you seek to disguise your true beliefs.

Still, like sprint I gratefully acknowledge your willingness to put forward your point in an open forum where you obviously expect to draw criticisms, thank you.

Mozz, are you suggestiong we should have some kind of law governing who can preach?

You missed my point, re: who's in charge, I was pointing out that nobody is.

Who is in charge of Christianity?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 1^st, 2008 at 10:17pm:


About as idiotic an answer as you can get. And you want Muslims to  take you seriously and debate?