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Aussie

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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #45 - May 28^th, 2008 at 7:03pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 5:24pm:

Aussie, you keep missing the point. The government did not kill him. The justice system did. There are very good reasons not to blur the distinction between these two institutions. For the government to compensate anyone, they would first have to determine whether an injustice was done. They have neither the resources nor the mandate to do so. The only thing worse than trial by media is trial by parliament.

No FD, I have not missed the point at all.

The incompetent hangman was an agent/employee of the Victorian Government. The Government of Victoria, as a consequence of an incompetent finding of guilt within the judicial system, unlawfully killed the man, who was always innocent. The Government always had the capacity to question the outcome of the Trial, but it refused to do so, for their own political expediency.

That same Government has now done a review, and found that the man was wrongly convicted, and therefore wrongly rendered dead.

Let those words impact on you FD......."think about it" (as you have asked of mantra on the nude kid thread)...the State, by way of cold blooded premeditation, KILLED an innocent man.

They get the cheque book out.

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Neferti

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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #46 - May 28^th, 2008 at 7:20pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 6:30pm:

The JURY needs to apologise for finding Colin Ross guilty.

Well no, the jury is only allowed to consider information presented to it in court. The crown prosecutors deliberately omitted crucial information, which I suspect is a criminal offence. They need to apologise and be held accountable, though they are probably dead to. Ultimately, the court bears some responsibility for miscarraige of justice also.

You missed my point with 'sealed' documents question. The link you gave seems a bit misleading, in that it implies the documents were deliberately hidden or withheld rather than just filed away as per standard practice. This creates the impression of a greater conspiracy.

Crap. No conspiracy. Get rid of that tin hat, mate!

ALL criminal cases are filed away in ARCHIVES, for ever . That includes all evidence such as "hairs", blood samples, etc. Case closed (for the time being) but unless someone other than the Police decides to do more investigation, some crimes may never be solved.

Your "sealed" documents comment is your problem, the evidence was ARCHIVED ...... it is still there but you, can't just access it, willy nilly. Privacy laws and all that. Angry

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: Death Penalty Reply #47 - May 28^th, 2008 at 7:30pm I hate to say it but I agree with Aussie. How embarrassing is that. freediver, you really have no idea about this do you. The courts are instruments of the state. They are created by the state, the judiciary are appointees of the state and they are paid by the state. The state makes a mistake the state fixes the mistake.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47460 At my desk.	Re: Death Penalty Reply #48 - May 28^th, 2008 at 8:25pm The Government always had the capacity to question the outcome of the Trial How so? I've never heard of the government over-ruling a verdict. Your "sealed" documents comment is your problem You posted it, apparently copied and pasted from that other dodgy site.
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Aussie

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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #49 - May 28^th, 2008 at 9:19pm

Quote:

The Government always had the capacity to question the outcome of the Trial

How so? I've never heard of the government over-ruling a verdict.

....errr......and.....errr.....right here FD, you are reading exactly that.

The State was pressured, the State decided that a pardon was deserved, and the State arranged for the Judiciary to follow suit.

That, per se, does not mean there is a breach of the separation of powers.

But, if anyone, these days believes that the AG of any State is not in constant touch with the Chief Justice of every State, on both macro and micro issues, I have not made this post.

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freediver

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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #50 - May 29^th, 2008 at 6:05pm

When you plead guilty, you are 'arranging' for the court to agree with you and give you a guilty plea. That doesn't mean you have authority over the court or have a mandate to judge innocence or guilt. It's the same here. The government can give evidence regarding the crown prosecutors actions, but they cannot make a proclamation of innocence that has any legal wieght. It's under the court's jurisdiction and the courts will give the only verdict that amounts to more than hollow rhetoric.

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Neferti

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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #51 - May 29^th, 2008 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 6:05pm:

When you plead guilty, you are 'arranging' for the court to agree with you and give you a guilty plea. That doesn't mean you have authority over the court or have a mandate to judge innocence or guilt. It's the same here. The government can give evidence regarding the crown prosecutors actions, but they cannot make a proclamation of innocence that has any legal wieght. It's under the court's jurisdiction and the courts will give the only verdict that amounts to more than hollow rhetoric.

Now you are an authority on The Law? I thought you were an Economist? Shocked

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Aussie

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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #52 - May 29^th, 2008 at 6:27pm

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 6:05pm:

When you plead guilty, you are 'arranging' for the court to agree with you and give you a guilty plea. That doesn't mean you have authority over the court or have a mandate to judge innocence or guilt. It's the same here. The government can give evidence regarding the crown prosecutors actions, but they cannot make a proclamation of innocence that has any legal wieght. It's under the court's jurisdiction and the courts will give the only verdict that amounts to more than hollow rhetoric.

Try again.

That reads as though you are on some sort of drinking binge.

It makes no sense at all.

Embarrassed

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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Death Penalty Reply #53 - May 30^th, 2008 at 9:35am I support the death penalty in principle. As soon as we have a system where all police, judiciary, and politicians are totally honest, infallible and incorruptible, then we can implement it.
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