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Death Penalty (Read 8550 times)
Aussie
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #30 - May 27th, 2008 at 8:50pm
 
Rubbish, FD. 

The Government has activated this pardon, not the Courts.

Ipso facto, the same Government can declare that the State murdered an innocent man, tainted his family.........and start writing cheques.

That won't take too long, and after they have done that, they can start spending money to find the real rapist/killer.

But, again.......who here still supports the death penalty?
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #31 - May 27th, 2008 at 9:43pm
 
You don't honestly expect them to re-open the case do you? Who are they supposed to compensate?
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #32 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:10pm
 
Those members of his family who probably have lived a life of shame as a consequence of this injustice.

Those members of his family who were deprived of his continued presence on this Earth by the Government's act in unlawfully killing him.
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #33 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:24pm
 
Aussie, you keep missing the point. The government did not kill him. The justice system did. There are very good reasons not to blur the distinction between these two institutions. For the government to compensate anyone, they would first have to determine whether an injustice was done. They have neither the resources nor the mandate to do so. The only thing worse than trial by media is trial by parliament.
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #34 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:31pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 27th, 2008 at 8:50pm:
Rubbish, FD.  

The Government has activated this pardon, not the Courts.

Ipso facto, the same Government can declare that the State murdered an innocent man, tainted his family.........and start writing cheques.

That won't take too long, and after they have done that, they can start spending money to find the real rapist/killer.

But, again.......who here still supports the death penalty?


I certainly do not support Capital Punishment.  This case is only one (of undoubtedly many) where lawyers (and the media) convinced the Jury that an innocent man was guilty.   It is a very old case (he was hanged 2 weeks? after found "guilty" back in 1922).



I doubt that Ross' family wants "compensation" but if it was me who had a "murderer" in my family history when, in fact, the man was innocent, I would certainly want the records changed.

WHO did murder that kid?  That is the question and I guess it is too late for her family to get answers.

By the way, did the ALP Victorian Government only "activate" the pardon because some "researcher" spent 10 or so years getting to the bottom of it?  OK he wrote a book .......  Good on him!

To answer a previous question Freediver ... about why the stuff was not opened for 75 years?  ALL crime evidence is kept on "file" .... until "someone" can come up with more evidence ...... even the "Crime Squad" might review murders that are no longer current but "something" happens and they check the archives and open the file again.  New ways of determining DNA has caught some who got away with it for decades!  There are many unsolved murders out there!  Wink
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #35 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:36pm
 
So when that link you gave said 'sealed' it really just meant no-one bothered to read it, not that there were any special barriers to gaining access?
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #36 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:36pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 5:24pm:
Aussie, you keep missing the point. The government did not kill him. The justice system did. There are very good reasons not to blur the distinction between these two institutions. For the government to compensate anyone, they would first have to determine whether an injustice was done. They have neither the resources nor the mandate to do so. The only thing worse than trial by media is trial by parliament.


The Government introduces and  passes the Legislation that determines The Rules of Law.  So, in effect, The Government is responsible.  Wink
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #37 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:38pm
 
The government is only responsible if you consider murder to not be a crime, or if you think all victims of capital punishment deserve an apology, regardless of whether they were guilty or innocent.

The error was in the judgement of guilt, from which the government could not be further removed.
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #38 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:49pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 5:36pm:
So when that link you gave said 'sealed' it really just meant no-one bothered to read it, not that there were any special barriers to gaining access?


Exactly. The case was "closed" because the man was found guilty and hanged. Case closed, I guess.  However, the case files and evidence were not thrown out in the trash. Archived!  Whatshisname (the author) must have had to go through "hoops" to access the evidence  .. he did.

Have you any idea how many UNSOLVED murders there are in Oz?  Forensic science has changed a lot so anyone with an idea and wants to write a book can (and should) try to get these cases re-opened.

In the news today there is one female who was involved in killing kids.  She died without saying a word. Can't remember her name.  

We have relative few murders in Australia but there are some who still got away with it. The files are still there ........... I'd like to see all unsolved murders solved and those who dunnit get their just desserts and the families of those murdered (or missing) find out WHO did it.

Wouldn't you?
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #39 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:52pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 5:24pm:
Aussie, you keep missing the point. The government did not kill him. The justice system did. There are very good reasons not to blur the distinction between these two institutions. For the government to compensate anyone, they would first have to determine whether an injustice was done. They have neither the resources nor the mandate to do so. The only thing worse than trial by media is trial by parliament.


The courts are created by the state and the state is the repository of general revenue.  Regardless of the separation of powers the state hold the keys to the vault.
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #40 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:54pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 5:38pm:
The government is only responsible if you consider murder to not be a crime, or if you think all victims of capital punishment deserve an apology, regardless of whether they were guilty or innocent.

The error was in the judgement of guilt, from which the government could not be further removed.


Huh?  That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Smiley
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #41 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:58pm
 
The government did not find him guilty, the courts did, and the government is prohibited from interfering in that. The finding of guilt is what supposedly needs the apology, not anything over which the government has control, like whether murder is a crime. thus, it has nothing to do with the government.
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #42 - May 28th, 2008 at 6:18pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 5:58pm:
The government did not find him guilty, the courts did, and the government is prohibited from interfering in that. The finding of guilt is what supposedly needs the apology, not anything over which the government has control, like whether murder is a crime. thus, it has nothing to do with the government.


It has a great deal to do with the government.  As I said the courts are created by acts of parliament. 

Any compensation to be paid is paid from general revenue.
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #43 - May 28th, 2008 at 6:19pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 5:58pm:
The government did not find him guilty, the courts did, and the government is prohibited from interfering in that. The finding of guilt is what supposedly needs the apology, not anything over which the government has control, like whether murder is a crime. thus, it has nothing to do with the government.


OK then. The JURY needs to apologise for finding Colin Ross guilty.  If you read the documents you will find that Ross' Defence Lawyer was not satisfied with the result of the verdict and even he did some research into the case and determined that Ross was NOT Guilty.

It doesn't matter, the guy was hanged for a crime he did NOT commit 86 years ago (1922).

Do you still believe in Capital Punishment?  That's the Question.  Wink
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Re: Death Penalty
Reply #44 - May 28th, 2008 at 6:30pm
 
The JURY needs to apologise for finding Colin Ross guilty.

Well no, the jury is only allowed to consider information presented to it in court. The crown prosecutors deliberately omitted crucial information, which I suspect is a criminal offence. They need to apologise and be held accountable, though they are probably dead to. Ultimately, the court bears some responsibility for miscarraige of justice also.

You missed my point with 'sealed' documents question. The link you gave seems a bit misleading, in that it implies the documents were deliberately hidden or withheld rather than just filed away as per standard practice. This creates the impression of a greater conspiracy.
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