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Go you old thing (Read 16708 times)
Sappho
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #75 - May 21st, 2008 at 10:40am
 
Deepthought - If there are 'inflationary inducing'  "wage increases, driven by people making lots of money" how does this fit with the usual leftard model of people being far worse off under WorkChoices?

freediver wrote on May 21st, 2008 at 9:45am:
It's a dumb question that makes no sense at all, but feel free to explain this 'usual leftard model' if you know what he is talking about. I haven't come across it before. Perhaps my education was lacking.


I'll simplify the question so you can understand then?

If most people, and you did use 'most' in an earlier post, are making lots of money, wouldn't have Work Choices play a significant role in that?
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #76 - May 21st, 2008 at 11:56am
 
I'd say it played a minor role, at best.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #77 - May 21st, 2008 at 6:00pm
 
freediver wrote on May 21st, 2008 at 11:56am:
I'd say it played a minor role, at best.


How so?
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #78 - May 21st, 2008 at 6:02pm
 
By increasing demand for employees.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #79 - May 21st, 2008 at 6:10pm
 
freediver wrote on May 21st, 2008 at 6:02pm:
By increasing demand for employees.


How does an increase in demand for employees cause 'most' people to be making lots of money?
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #80 - May 21st, 2008 at 6:25pm
 
Obviously I am not suggesting that workchoices is responsible for more than a small part of the increase in demand. This will explain how it works better than I could:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Note that as far as the local labour market is concerned, the supply side is very insensitive (ie constrained, the 'labour shortage').
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #81 - May 21st, 2008 at 6:41pm
 
freediver wrote on May 21st, 2008 at 6:25pm:
Obviously I am not suggesting that workchoices is responsible for more than a small part of the increase in demand. This will explain how it works better than I could:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Note that as far as the local labour market is concerned, the supply side is very insensitive (ie constrained, the 'labour shortage').


If you are an Economist, Freediver, you are true to form.  I worked in an area that had 4 Economists and none of them agreed on anything and this was about "housing".  Grin
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #82 - May 21st, 2008 at 7:03pm
 
You could say the same about any group of people - scientists, doctors etc. They agree on the basics of their discipline, but disagree on the edges. The difference with economics is that 'the basics' is a much smaller body of knowledge. However, this is still within the basics (the supply and demand stuff from my last post anyway).

Note also the distinction between normative and summative claims. Most other disciplines are almost wholly within the summative, at least as far as the public perception of the philosophical territory is concerned. This is not true for economics. Economists are far more likely to agree on the summative and disagree on the normative. Of course, it's always the normative issues you here them arguing about, as they are the interesting ones.

BTW, I don't consider myself an economist. It's just one of my interests.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #83 - May 21st, 2008 at 7:36pm
 
freediver wrote on May 21st, 2008 at 7:03pm:
You could say the same about any group of people - scientists, doctors etc. They agree on the basics of their discipline, but disagree on the edges. The difference with economics is that 'the basics' is a much smaller body of knowledge. However, this is still within the basics (the supply and demand stuff from my last post anyway).


I should hope that medical people don't carry on like economists and scientists. Medicos need to ACT, not waffle on, or the patient is D.E.A.D.  I think I would rather have a Doctor of Medicine look after me than an Economist.  Wink

Quote:
Note also the distinction between normative and summative claims. Most other disciplines are almost wholly within the summative, at least as far as the public perception of the philosophical territory is concerned. This is not true for economics. Economists are far more likely to agree on the summative and disagree on the normative. Of course, it's always the normative issues you here them arguing about, as they are the interesting ones.


You should become a pollie.

normative and summative issues?  Shocked

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BTW, I don't consider myself an economist. It's just one of my interests.


I certainly don't.  No more than I am a medical expert, or can predict how many terms the ALP will be in parliament. Wink
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #84 - May 21st, 2008 at 8:17pm
 
Sorry, that should have been positive, not summative.

The distinction between normative and positive is a valuable one to understand, especially for politics. I often see the two confused on this forum, when you get two people disagreeing with each other but not understanding why. Or when someone describes a phenomenon and it is taken as support for a position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative

In philosophy, normative statements affirm how things should or ought to be, how to value them, which things are good or bad, which actions are right or wrong. Normative is usually contrasted with positive (i.e. descriptive, explanatory, or constative) when describing types of theories, beliefs, or propositions. Positive statements are falsifiable statements that attempt to describe reality.

For example, "children should eat vegetables", "smoking is bad", and "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" are normative claims. On the other hand, "vegetables contain a relatively high proportion of vitamins", "smoking causes cancer", and "a common consequence of sacrificing liberty for security is a loss of both" are positive claims. Whether or not a statement is normative is logically independent of whether it is verified, verifiable, or popularly held.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_statement

In economics and philosophy, a positive statement concerns what is, and contains no indication of approval or disapproval. A positive statement can be factually incorrect: "The moon is made of black and gold cheese" is false, but a positive statement, as it is a statement about what exists. Positive statements are contrasted with normative statements.

Historical origins of the term could include reference to the philosophical notion of positivism.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #85 - May 22nd, 2008 at 12:18am
 
Stop quoting Wikipedia, its a very dubious website.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #86 - May 22nd, 2008 at 8:22am
 
yes, if we wanted to discuss with wikipedia we would go there.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #87 - May 22nd, 2008 at 8:50am
 
You think they get the definition of words wrong?
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #88 - May 22nd, 2008 at 4:58pm
 
Have you forgotten John Howards editing already.
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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #89 - May 22nd, 2008 at 5:13pm
 
lapaz62 wrote on May 22nd, 2008 at 4:58pm:
Have you forgotten John Howards editing already.



Yes, Wikipedia is prone to editing especially when it is in ones vested interest to edit passages about oneself to make one look good ie: John Howard.

However, I think FD is quoting definitions from Wikipedia. I don't believe people would edit too much of the definitions that will detract from the true meaning of the word or phrase. For example, Wikipedia has a definition for the word geocentric which is accepted worldwide. I can't imagine anyone (beyond pranksters) would edit the definition geocentric to read "Geocentric is where FD thinks that the universe revolves around him" (Sorry FD  Wink).

Just because it's in Wikipedia doesn't automatically make it incredible.

Smiley
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