Australian Politics Forum - Go you old thing

deepthought

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #15 - May 18^th, 2008 at 3:09pm

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 2:12pm:

Are you talking about super, or interest earned from other sources. If from other sources, it would be treated just like any other income and receive the same tax breaks.

I'm talking about what I said I was talking about - interest which is counted as income. So it could come from savings for example.

But while almost everyone else got a tax break Cardboard Kev shafted the pensioners because they are not his union mates.

That's why I vote Liberal because we righties don't selectively and divisively support groups of people - we care about all Australians.

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mantra

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #16 - May 18^th, 2008 at 3:19pm

Quote:

If you understood economics you would understand that by not increasing it, it is being reduced. Since the Liebor government started buggering Australia costs have blown out with all utilities and basics rising at a level not seen for more than a decade, fuel is at record prices and interest rates are where they were when Cheating had everyone by the balls.

There has been no real increase in 15 years - don't just apply it to to the Rudd govt. Howard was in power for 12 of those years. How the hell will Australia pay for an increase? There's no future fund for seniors is there?

Quote:

Further to that by shifting the income threshold on the medicare income levy he encouraged hundreds of thousands to abandon private health which will cause the premiums to rise. People on fixed incomes (read pensioners) will get hit the hardest by rises in private health.

That is only supposition. There is no proof that "thousands" will abandon private health insurance.

Quote:

But while almost everyone else got a tax break Cardboard Kev shafted the pensioners because they are not his union mates.

That is a load of rubbish. Howard during his reign of terror even ensured self funded retirees could get a pension. Welfare almost doubled under Howard. It is supposed to be for the needy. Maybe when Rudd tightens means testing for some pensioners - especially those who choose to live overseas, the govt. can afford to give those that genuinely need it an increase.

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deepthought

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #17 - May 18^th, 2008 at 3:33pm

mantra wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

If you understood economics you would understand that by not increasing it, it is being reduced. Since the Liebor government started buggering Australia costs have blown out with all utilities and basics rising at a level not seen for more than a decade, fuel is at record prices and interest rates are where they were when Cheating had everyone by the balls.

There has been no real increase in 15 years - don't just apply it to to the Rudd govt. Howard was in power for 12 of those years. How the hell will Australia pay for an increase? There's no future fund for seniors is there?

Quote:

Further to that by shifting the income threshold on the medicare income levy he encouraged hundreds of thousands to abandon private health which will cause the premiums to rise. People on fixed incomes (read pensioners) will get hit the hardest by rises in private health.

That is only supposition. There is no proof that "thousands" will abandon private health insurance.

Quote:

But while almost everyone else got a tax break Cardboard Kev shafted the pensioners because they are not his union mates.

That is a load of rubbish. Howard during his reign of terror even ensured self funded retirees could get a pension. Welfare almost doubled under Howard. It is supposed to be for the needy. Maybe when Rudd tightens means testing for some pensioners - especially those who choose to live overseas, the govt. can afford to give those that genuinely need it an increase.

Of course there have been increases in the pension. It happens annually. But the issue now is Cardboard Kev's economy which (using their own words) is 'out of control'. With inflation now matching Cheating's of 15 years ago the pension needs to rise by that burgeoning amount or they are going backwards. John Howard's Australia maintained an average 2.5% inflation for its entire term. The pension incrementally rose to match inflation. At the moment the pensioners are going backwards.

The 'proof' that thousands will abandon private health is in the Liebor Budget. If you choose not to believe that bit what else don't you believe about the document? Any other bits you think are 'supposition'?

And you supported my argument with the last bit of your rant. That's exactly what I said. We Liberals favour all Australians, we don't just slip our mates heaps and abandon pensioners to the wolves.

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athiest

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #18 - May 18^th, 2008 at 3:36pm

mantra wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 3:19pm:

Quote:

If you understood economics you would understand that by not increasing it, it is being reduced. Since the Liebor government started buggering Australia costs have blown out with all utilities and basics rising at a level not seen for more than a decade, fuel is at record prices and interest rates are where they were when Cheating had everyone by the balls.

There has been no real increase in 15 years - don't just apply it to to the Rudd govt. Howard was in power for 12 of those years. How the hell will Australia pay for an increase? There's no future fund for seniors is there?

Quote:

Further to that by shifting the income threshold on the medicare income levy he encouraged hundreds of thousands to abandon private health which will cause the premiums to rise. People on fixed incomes (read pensioners) will get hit the hardest by rises in private health.

That is only supposition. There is no proof that "thousands" will abandon private health insurance.

Quote:

But while almost everyone else got a tax break Cardboard Kev shafted the pensioners because they are not his union mates.

That is a load of rubbish. Howard during his reign of terror even ensured self funded retirees could get a pension. Welfare almost doubled under Howard. It is supposed to be for the needy. Maybe when Rudd tightens means testing for some pensioners - especially those who choose to live overseas, the govt. can afford to give those that genuinely need it an increase.

Yes I hate these bludgers who suck an ozzy pension and then choose to live on it O/S.

Does anyone know what the pension bill is? I am serious when I say they should get double I'd like to know how much that might cost.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47453 At my desk.	Re: Go you old thing Reply #19 - May 18^th, 2008 at 3:45pm Deepthought, unless you think Rudd created a special tax to apply to interest that seniors get, they will be getting the same tax breaks as everyone else.
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Ray_A Senior Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 334 Gender:	Re: Go you old thing Reply #20 - May 18^th, 2008 at 4:37pm Amadd wrote on May 17^th, 2008 at 5:59am: Well they are not children; they would like to be treated at least as well as the import taxi drivers that took their protest to the streets. Can you elaborate on this?
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Neferti

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #21 - May 18^th, 2008 at 5:05pm

Quote:

Yes I hate these bludgers who suck an ozzy pension and then choose to live on it O/S.

Does anyone know what the pension bill is? I am serious when I say they should get double I'd like to know how much that might cost.

I think that migrants who worked in Australia (and paid income tax) for a certain length of time (25 years?) receive a "part" Australian Age Pension should they return "home" to live permanently in their old age. If they worked in the old country before migrating to Australia they would get a "part" Pension from that country as well. It certainly wouldn't be enough for them to live in luxury. Some migrants get home sick in their old age and never really considered Australia home. Shocked

I have no idea how many Australians are on the Age Pension but I did read somewhere recently a figure of something like 350,000 Age Pensioners ... but don't quote me on that.

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« Last Edit: May 18^th, 2008 at 5:42pm by Neferti »

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Neferti

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #22 - May 18^th, 2008 at 5:37pm

mantra wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 3:19pm:

Howard during his reign of terror even ensured self funded retirees could get a pension.

I think you are wrong there, Mantra. Self funded retirees do not get an Age Pension. What Howard did was give them a special Pension Card so that they could claim reductions in pharmaceuticals and so forth. I think that is similar to the Pensioner Concession Card that Age Pensioners get which allows them to travel on public transport at a reduced rate, cheaper pharmaceuticals, and be Bulk Billed at the GP (IF the GP Bulk Bills at all) and some Councils do offer reductions in Rates, etc.

Considering that the Age Pension for a single person is only $270 a week ($220 each for a couple) it is a pittance for those people to live on even if they own their own home. They still have to feed and clothe themselves, pay electricity, rates, phone, petrol, car maintenance etc. If they don't own their own home they are stuffed ... there is a rental rebate but I think the maximum they can get is about $45 a week.

The Age Pension is Asset and Income tested too. Everything you have (car, furniture, clothes, etc) are considered "assets". Your home is excluded. If you have an investment property, that is income tested. I was told by an elderly neighbour that each year Centrelink sends out a form to fill out ... Centrelink wants to know how much you have in your bank account and whether your assets have changed (i.e. sold your car if you had one, taken in a boarder, etc.). As if you could save anything on that pittance. Angry

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deepthought

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #23 - May 18^th, 2008 at 6:04pm

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 3:45pm:

Deepthought, unless you think Rudd created a special tax to apply to interest that seniors get, they will be getting the same tax breaks as everyone else.

No, they will be getting the same 'tax breaks' they always had. But theirs doesn't change while almost everyone else's does.

So they got ignored while almost everyone else got something. Cardboard Kev showed he doesn't give a sh!t for pensioners. In that sense it is a typical Liebor budget where the most disadvantaged get shafted.

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mantra

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #24 - May 18^th, 2008 at 6:30pm

Quote:

I think you are wrong there, Mantra. Self funded retirees do not get an Age Pension. What Howard did was give them a special Pension Card so that they could claim reductions in pharmaceuticals and so forth. I think that is similar to the Pensioner Concession Card that Age Pensioners get which allows them to travel on public transport at a reduced rate, cheaper pharmaceuticals, and be Bulk Billed at the GP (IF the GP Bulk Bills at all) and some Councils do offer reductions in Rates, etc.

There are many self funded retirees receiving the aged pension neferti. I know some of them personally. Think back to those government advertisements a couple of years ago stating - even if you have never been entitled to a pension before, you will now under the coalition's new legislation (or something similar).

There are all sorts of whiz kid accountants making a fortune out of shuffling superannuation & investment funds around into pension strategies in order to fill this fairly recent legislation by the Howard government. My neighbours live off the interest of their investments, but use their pension for the pokies - saves having to dig into their capital.

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deepthought

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #25 - May 18^th, 2008 at 6:40pm

mantra wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

I think you are wrong there, Mantra. Self funded retirees do not get an Age Pension. What Howard did was give them a special Pension Card so that they could claim reductions in pharmaceuticals and so forth. I think that is similar to the Pensioner Concession Card that Age Pensioners get which allows them to travel on public transport at a reduced rate, cheaper pharmaceuticals, and be Bulk Billed at the GP (IF the GP Bulk Bills at all) and some Councils do offer reductions in Rates, etc.

There are many self funded retirees receiving the aged pension neferti. I know some of them personally. Think back to those government advertisements a couple of years ago stating - even if you have never been entitled to a pension before, you will now under the coalition's new legislation (or something similar).

There are all sorts of whiz kid accountants making a fortune out of shuffling superannuation & investment funds around into pension strategies in order to fill this fairly recent legislation by the Howard government. My neighbours live off the interest of their investments, but use their pension for the pokies - saves having to dig into their capital.

They might be telling you porkies.

Pensions are subject to both the Assets Test and the Income Test. Very little is excluded.

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Neferti

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #26 - May 18^th, 2008 at 7:14pm

Self funded retirees do not get the Age Pension.

There is such a thing as the Seniors Concession Allowance which self funded retirees can get which is fairly recent. This payment is income and asset tested too and paid to people who do NOT qualify for the Age Pension but are of Age Pension age. To get this payment they need to qualify for the Seniors Concession Card. If they are on less than $40,000 (singles) or $80,000 (couples) they would qualify. That is probably what your "friends" are talking about. However, a $500 PER YEAR handout ($9.60 a week) wouldn't go very far at The Club. Wink

Check Centrelink. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: May 18^th, 2008 at 7:27pm by Neferti »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47453 At my desk.	Re: Go you old thing Reply #27 - May 18^th, 2008 at 7:29pm You're not making any sense Deepthought. Is there some kind of separate income tax scale for retirees? What is the income tax rate for retirees?
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deepthought

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #28 - May 18^th, 2008 at 8:20pm

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2008 at 7:29pm:

You're not making any sense Deepthought. Is there some kind of separate income tax scale for retirees? What is the income tax rate for retirees?

Seniors have a different set of rules which impact on their income. So the answer to your question is yes, there is a different set of tax scales for seniors. It is very complicated as their income is affected by the Senior Australians Tax Offset, the Low Income Tax Offset, the Tax Threshold and the Medicare Levy. Seniors are also means tested and income tested on their pensions.

The pensioners were left, right, left right out by Cardboard Kev's inflationary budget.

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freediver

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Re: Go you old thing
Reply #29 - May 18^th, 2008 at 8:26pm

Are they generally taxed at a higher or lower rate than non-retirees?

Strong argument to increase aged pension

http://news.smh.com.au/national/strong-argument-to-increase-aged-pension-20080518-2fiu.html

The federal opposition says there is a very strong argument to increase the age pension, but has not yet committed to such a policy.

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« Last Edit: May 18^th, 2008 at 8:41pm by freediver »

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