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Politicians salaries (Read 6038 times)
RecFisher
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #30 - Mar 26th, 2008 at 10:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 25th, 2008 at 10:49pm:
The pay should be equivalent to what you'd get for a similar position in the public or private sector.


Can I go back to the start and ask what you think the equivalent position to a politician is in:

a)  the public service;

b)  the private sector?
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deepthought
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #31 - Mar 27th, 2008 at 6:39am
 
RecFisher wrote on Mar 26th, 2008 at 10:44pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 25th, 2008 at 10:49pm:
The pay should be equivalent to what you'd get for a similar position in the public or private sector.


Can I go back to the start and ask what you think the equivalent position to a politician is in:

a)  the public service;

b)  the private sector?


While I'm certain freediver will ignore your question as he seems to ignore all questions this is a very valid point Recfisher.

In both cases, private and public, people are paid according to experience and qualification, and then promoted according to proven ability, commitment or a range of attributes.

This would follow that some pollies are paid too much and some too little.
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freediver
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #32 - Mar 27th, 2008 at 9:31am
 
"They're about radical change, profit making and the acquisition of personal assets - not possible in Government."

You get all different types of managers in the private sector. Some are about radical change. Some are about the conservative stuff - OH&S, policies and procedures, finding ways to save money etc. Just like in politics, you need a bit of both.

"Can I go back to the start and ask what you think the equivalent position to a politician is in:"

Some suggestions: you could go by the budget they are responsible for, the hours they keep, the number of people they manage etc. There are companies around that are bigger than the entire Australian economy, so it's not like you have nothing to compare it to. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure there are public servants that get paid more than the politicians that are effectively their boss.
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #33 - Mar 27th, 2008 at 4:23pm
 
IQSRLOW wrote on Mar 26th, 2008 at 9:47pm:
Let me guess...

You work a lowly paid job and you are bitter about it because you don't have the nous to advance, so you would prefer to put everyone on an even keel with your level of capacity?



hahaha, not quite. but come on squire i'm sure there's a better way you can try to insult me than to make a generalised statment that assumes if you have a low paid job you've Got to have no "nous".
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #34 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 2:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 27th, 2008 at 9:31am:
"They're about radical change, profit making and the acquisition of personal assets - not possible in Government."

You get all different types of managers in the private sector. Some are about radical change. Some are about the conservative stuff - OH&S, policies and procedures, finding ways to save money etc. Just like in politics, you need a bit of both.

"Can I go back to the start and ask what you think the equivalent position to a politician is in:"

Some suggestions: you could go by the budget they are responsible for, the hours they keep, the number of people they manage etc. There are companies around that are bigger than the entire Australian economy, so it's not like you have nothing to compare it to. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure there are public servants that get paid more than the politicians that are effectively their boss.


So tell me freediver, what should they be paid to attract better people than the monkeys we now have?
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RecFisher
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #35 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 4:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 27th, 2008 at 9:31am:
Some suggestions: you could go by the budget they are responsible for, the hours they keep, the number of people they manage etc. There are companies around that are bigger than the entire Australian economy, so it's not like you have nothing to compare it to. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure there are public servants that get paid more than the politicians that are effectively their boss.


Ok, the Defence portfolio's estimated spending for 2007-08 is $44-odd billion, with an estimate of some 95,000 staff (military and civillian combined).  The Attorney General's Portfolio has $3.5 billion and 18,000 respectively. (source 2007-08 Budget Papers).

How much should the Defence Minister be paid in comparison to the Attorney General?  5 times as much, 10 times?

How much more should a Minister be paid than an ordinary Reps or Senate member?

In comparison, Woolworths Ltd has about 180,000 staff, and $42 billion in sales. (source 2006-07 Annual Report).  Should the Defence Minister's salary be comparable to the Woolworths' CEO?
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The Costello dilemma
Reply #36 - Aug 4th, 2008 at 4:21pm
 
Peter Costello's threats to leave politics is strong evidence that politicians shouls be paid more. He has a good chance of becoming the most powerful person in Australia, yet he is getting paid a pittance compared to what he could get in private industry. Is it any wonder he is writing a book instead of doing his job as a politician? Is it owrth settling for second best so we can save a few dollars on politicians salaries? If this is the decision that faces a potential future PM, how many potential leaders dismiss local, state or federal politics from the beginning because the salary doesn't justify the effort involved?

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Pretending that you have monkeys so your only choice is to continue paying peanuts is jsut absurd.
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locutius
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #37 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 12:40pm
 
What skills does a politician actually need? Seriously.

Other than competant polling of his electorate to find out how his/her electorate require them to vote on any issue before the house. And what issues they want before the house. That's it. The administration is taken over by the public servants.

Serving in the political arena should be seen as a public calling and more Australians should be educated and encouraged to a level that allows them to give it a go. I'm sure an adequate course could be developed at high school level and as a open learning subject to allow people to have a grasp of macro economics, strategic studies, separation of powers, duty of the office etc etc.

Some of the dubious claims about the superiority of the Liberal party skill set are luckily so transparently vitriolic and biased that the equal and appropiate level of rebuttal would be to suggest that the Liberal party is made up of the inbred aristocracy of politics and money, producing the absolute worst kind of politician. The professional politician, and worse still the cross-generational professional politician.

Our education system should aim for this as a minimum: that graduation from high school level is adequate for ANY in the general population to capably represent their community and to understand the mechanics of represntative government. Include history, social studies, science and political and ethical philosophy.

I'd rather see more "real people" amatuer politicians than wheeling dealing grubs in there at the moment. It's a pity that the Labor party sold out the working class many years ago and decided to lower themselves to the self serving back room prostitution of the Liberal party.

FD. at the moment, they are more than adequately compensated. Refer to my opening question.
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« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2008 at 12:58pm by locutius »  

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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #38 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 12:56pm
 
I like Rudd's idea of performance based salaries for teachers, and would love to see it carried over to politicians.

Perhaps we could find some brilliant academics who are willing to undergo a six week course in duplicity, double speak and evasion, and then let them have a go at running the country?

It certainly couldn't hurt to try it. Grin
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #39 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 1:09pm
 
mozzaok - hahahah , rudd would not carry that over to this pocket.
the way ALP have driven the economy, they owe US money !!!!!!!

Libs would have had to be paid millions per year - well worth it.
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locutius
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #40 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 1:30pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Sep 9th, 2008 at 12:56pm:
I like Rudd's idea of performance based salaries for teachers, and would love to see it carried over to politicians.

Perhaps we could find some brilliant academics who are willing to undergo a six week course in duplicity, double speak and evasion, and then let them have a go at running the country?

It certainly couldn't hurt to try it. Grin


Grin Grin Nice one.

I do recall something about the performance based salaries for teachers, another pick on teachers knee-jerk political solution Roll Eyes How about they have some balls and make the parents of turd kids that don't want to learn or distrupt the learning of other children attend school saturady and sunday with their kids. I reckon it would not take long to stop a lot off rot.

I went to a BBQ recently where one of the little darlings needed a bloody good belting. Like the ones I got occasionaly, my father ex-navy, so believe me, I preferred them to be very occasionaly. The parents were saying how they could not wait for him to start school, the teachers would bring him into line. Unfortunately the defining line of allowable disicpline is so blurred that its approched with little confidence or authority. It became apparent during the afternoon that they were the type of parent that would in fact confront any attempt of teacher discipline as not right and " troyan to sqworsh 'is independant naycha"!
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locutius
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #41 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 1:47pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 9th, 2008 at 1:09pm:
Libs would have had to be paid millions per year - well worth it.


Grin GrinOh sprint, that's hilarious. I've had to dial 000. Laughing so much I can't breath. Thanks mate for the giggle. Grin Grin
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #42 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 3:13pm
 
locutius - always good to make you laugh  Smiley
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #43 - Sep 23rd, 2008 at 10:34am
 
What skills does a politician actually need?

They need management skills. In any other industry, that puts them at the top of the slaary scale.

Other than competant polling of his electorate to find out how his/her electorate require them to vote on any issue before the house.

That is not what politicians do. The whole point of our electoral system is that it allows people to let politicians make their decisions for them. There is a lot that politicians do that people never hear about, unless they stuff up badly.

Our education system should aim for this as a minimum: that graduation from high school level is adequate for ANY in the general population to capably represent their community

Do we want someone who is merely capable, or do we want the best?

If being a politician is so easy, why does everyone keep complaining that they can't do it right? It smacks of tall poppy syndrome. People don't want to admit that being a politician requires valuable skills that they lack.
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locutius
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Re: Politicians salaries
Reply #44 - Sep 23rd, 2008 at 2:15pm
 
Quote:
What skills does a politician actually need?

They need management skills. In any other industry, that puts them at the top of the slaary scale.


Nice, if they have them (management skills), but not necessary. What are they managing other than getting re-elected. Leave the management up to the bureaucracy, the public servants.

Quote:
Other than competant polling of his electorate to find out how his/her electorate require them to vote on any issue before the house.

That is not what politicians do. The whole point of our electoral system is that it allows people to let politicians make their decisions for them. There is a lot that politicians do that people never hear about, unless they stuff up badly.


But this is what they should do. That's it. They should have an ability to debate a subject sensibly and have a good general knowledge in a variety of area's such as science, history, social science, economics etc etc. And that is the really scary part, the decisions they make in my name and on my behalf, secretly. I think most people would rather be polled and represented. Currently most people probably feel that polling is a complete waste of time. That's because it largely is. Politicians vote largely to suit themselves and their parties.

Quote:
Our education system should aim for this as a minimum: that graduation from high school level is adequate for ANY in the general population to capably represent their community
Do we want someone who is merely capable, or do we want the best?

If being a politician is so easy, why does everyone keep complaining that they can't do it right? It smacks of tall poppy syndrome. People don't want to admit that being a politician requires valuable skills that they lack.


I'll take capable, from as large an experience pool as meets the requirements rather than the professional politician. The two party system is a complete rort. It seems that the BEST are those that are most able to continue the charade of representation while convincing us that they have our interests at heart. If they really did, there would be far more united decisions made for the good of the country.
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