Australian Politics Forum - The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy

pjb05

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #30 - Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 3:26pm

You have seen to have done remarkably little reseach on the subject

You're basing this on my unfamiliarity with imaginary statistics? Or just my refusal to accept claims you can't back up?

If you have any knowledge of these areas you will know the eye teeth have been picked out of the good fishing spots and reefs are over represented.

I heard similar claims about the GBR, but they couldn't be verified, even though it was in the itnerest of those making the claims to put in the effort to back them up.

It is however inevitable that if you do a proper public consultation there will be some people, generally the best fishermen, who end up seeing it like you do.

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RecFisher

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #31 - Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 6:35pm

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 5:26pm:

I find it hard to believe that no-one saved a copy of the pdf of such useful and interesting information.

So I am a liar? I suggest you call the MPA and ask them about the "Habitat Types per Zone" document they produced for the Port Stephens Marine Park. It wasn't a PDF, rather an Excel document and the document properties say it was authored by Celia Eastman.

That should be enough for you to go on. If you get stuck, I can send you my copy of it.

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« Last Edit: Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 7:07pm by RecFisher »

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RecFisher Senior Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 347	Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy Reply #32 - Mar 25^th, 2008 at 4:38pm Come on FD, I assume you called them first thing this morning?
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freediver

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #33 - Mar 25^th, 2008 at 8:25pm

Mainly on your earlier denial of my reference to NSW fisheries reviews

I denied your reference? WTF does that mean?

Why don't you tell us then what proof will satisfy you. If not then I suggest you drop this silly argument.

Some possibilities for evidence (not necessarily proof): the data collected by the GBR and used to select the zones, or a smaller random sample of fishermen and their submissions and the relevant outcomes. Many people, including yourself, have made this argument. I was mostly pointing out how silly it was, but giving those responsible for it the opportunity to back up their claim before accusing them of anything. Go tell the people who keep repeating this gibberish to drop the silly argument rather than pointing the finger at me for saying how silly it is.

The submissions I know of have been overwhelmingly against the zonings

Did you seek out people who supported the zonings, or people who shared your views?

So I am a liar?

I didn't say that.

That should be enough for you to go on. If you get stuck, I can send you my copy of it.

Why don't you just send me your copy rather than playing hard to get? If you tell me how big it is I will set it up so you can attach it to a post.

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RecFisher

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #34 - Mar 26^th, 2008 at 10:35pm

freediver wrote on Mar 25^th, 2008 at 8:25pm:

So I am a liar?

I didn't say that.

Not in so few words, no.

freediver wrote on Mar 25^th, 2008 at 8:25pm:

That should be enough for you to go on. If you get stuck, I can send you my copy of it.

Why don't you just send me your copy rather than playing hard to get? If you tell me how big it is I will set it up so you can attach it to a post.

2 chances of that happening.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47479 At my desk.	Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy Reply #35 - Mar 27^th, 2008 at 9:18am Why don't you want to share your copy? Are you worried it may not convince me?
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RecFisher Senior Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 347	Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy Reply #36 - Mar 27^th, 2008 at 5:03pm freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2008 at 9:18am: Why don't you want to share your copy? Are you worried it may not convince me? Because I want you to call them. What was it convincing you of again?
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freediver

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #37 - Mar 27^th, 2008 at 5:17pm

Why do you want me to call them? It seems like you are trying to trick me into making a fool of myself, by calling them up and demanding a file from them when I have zero evidence that the file exists. I can't think of any other reason for the stance you are taking.

What was it convincing you of again?

That was really just a jab at pj's excuses. However, I would like to have evidence to back up some claims.

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RecFisher

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #38 - Mar 27^th, 2008 at 8:33pm

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2008 at 5:17pm:

Why do you want me to call them? It seems like you are trying to trick me into making a fool of myself, by calling them up and demanding a file from them when I have zero evidence that the file exists. I can't think of any other reason for the stance you are taking.

That's a bit paranoid isn't it? Why would you think that?

I won't give you the file because you claimed it was made up, or guessed, and I was insulted by that. You basically called me a liar, which is all the more insulting because we don't know each other from a bar of soap.

If you want it, go find it yourself. I've told you how. End of story.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47479 At my desk.	Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy Reply #39 - Mar 27^th, 2008 at 9:12pm So you won't prove that a file exists because I said it doesn't exist? Interesting logic. So tell me, why did it take you so long to make this claim that you had a copy of the file? I am not being paranoid. What you are suggesting is absurd.
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pjb05

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #40 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 8:15am

You do have a habit of denying the obvious, FD. If we do chase up information as you demand you then just drop the subject completely or shoot the messenger.
Eg you called Prof Kearney's paper a joke or a hoax. Prof Kearney is in fact standing by his paper and its the MPA who has withdrawn its 'science' paper! What have you got to say about that?

I mentioned fisheries assessments by NSW Fisheries and DEH which are freely available on the net and you dismiss them as some vauge reference. This also reveals you have never looked at them, yet you think you can speak with authority on NSW fisheries!

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RecFisher

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #41 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 10:27am

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2008 at 9:12pm:

So you won't prove that a file exists because I said it doesn't exist? Interesting logic. So tell me, why did it take you so long to make this claim that you had a copy of the file?

I am not being paranoid. What you are suggesting is absurd.

Well, you are the one that doesn't think it exists. I know myself that it does, because I have a copy. I'm just suggesting you prove it to yourself. You are sounding like the spoilt little kid who didn't get any lollies. I told you how to get the lollies. I'm not sharing mine because you hurt my feelings.

Why is it absurd that I suggest you ring the Marine Parks Authority? Do you think they are part of the conspiracy against you? I have no ulterior motives against you, you are deluding yourself in that regard.

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freediver

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #42 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 11:01am

If we do chase up information as you demand

I am not demanding you chase up information. I'm asking Recfisher to verify the information he has already presented.

you then just drop the subject completely

Is this a bad thing? Should we continue discussing when there is nothing left to discuss?

you dismiss them as some vauge reference

They are a vague reference.

I'm not sharing mine because you hurt my feelings.

Grin

Why is it absurd that I suggest you ring the Marine Parks Authority?

Because chances are this document does not exist. It is absurd for you to insist that a document exists and you have a copy but refuse to share it with anyone else. I have no idea what is going on in your head but I am not going to make a fool of myself by taking you seriously. I have nothing against the MP authority. I just don't want to waste their time with your silly little games.

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RecFisher

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Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy
Reply #43 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 12:36pm

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2008 at 11:01am:

Because chances are this document does not exist. It is absurd for you to insist that a document exists and you have a copy but refuse to share it with anyone else. I have no idea what is going on in your head but I am not going to make a fool of myself by taking you seriously. I have nothing against the MP authority. I just don't want to waste their time with your silly little games.

Chances are you are wrong, but I'm happy to leave it at that.

(I'm sure you will have at least one more say on the matter though)...

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47479 At my desk.	Re: The GBR marine park site selection conspiracy Reply #44 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 12:44pm Why do you want me to call them?
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