Australian Politics Forum - How Do You Vote?

oceanz

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #45 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 6:48pm

deepthought wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 5:32pm:

Quote:

These are a very toxic nasty peices of bitterness mantra- are you sure you want to be exposing yourself to the likes of them.

I thought DT started out OK in here..but all has been revealed in the last few months..hes just a dictionary version of IQ (not a goal to aspire to). I hope I dont have to "reiterate" the last again for the bitter right wing regressives?

Its no wonder they isolate themselves in here- hoping like billyo noone will come in and show up they're pathetic regressive bul sh it. Theyre cr ap doesnt stand up to scrutiny in the cut and thrust of vigorous poltical debate and challenge. Even tho your doing a great job- minus the insults, bitterness and putdowns

At least I dont pretend to be what Im not as these 2 do-.

Now we have got your personal attack on me out of your system oceans would you consider sticking to the topic. The subject is 'How do you vote?' Care to answer that and leave your critique of me out of it?

Like you care about my input DT..you ignore any post I put up even when they are adressed to you ,so save it . I find you to be disingenious sir.

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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: How Do You Vote? Reply #46 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 6:51pm I'd gather they are ignored for a good reason...they are usually useless inane garbage that isn't worth responding to. I, however find it fun to toy with the retarded mouse
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mantra

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #47 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 7:11pm

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What is the Green solution to foreign investment, and take overs? Could India have survived on kniting Gandhi-garments in a competitive economy

Ray - there is little detailed policy online by the Greens in regard to foreign investment, only so far as resisting certain foreign acquisitions and ensuring that our imports are not purchased from foreign companies where child labour is exploited. They have some good policies in regard to trade. Although Swan today has changed the legislation to ensure that that there are guidelines for all new foreign investment so that foreign state-owned investors will have to demonstrate they have clear commercial objectives only and operate at an "arms length" from their government. This is a start - and who knows, maybe the Greens have had some influence in this decision.

Of course we go with the cheaper imported option and our manufacturing has almost gone down the tubes, but this hasn't been good for our economy as our trade deficit is dangerously high. The Greens obviously aren't strict economists, but they provide a balance and with the little bit of influence they have now - they can soften the edges of a government which might be persuaded to put the almighty dollar before humanity. Not that the dollar isn't important, but there are other ways of making money without sacrificing all of nature and human rights in the process.

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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: How Do You Vote? Reply #48 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 7:27pm IQSRLOW wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 4:36pm: Now I wonder if that means you IQ Wink Dunno what you mean. I am still at Cracker- you just aren't intelligent enough to work it out ummm that would be yes I know who you are and as soon as you slip..[[ as you already have done a couple of times.]]..Ill be there.
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IQSRLOW

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #49 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 7:35pm

Quote:

IQSRLOW wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 4:36pm:

Now I wonder if that means you IQ Wink

Dunno what you mean. I am still at Cracker- you just aren't intelligent enough to work it out

Grin

ummm that would be yes I know who you are and as soon as you slip..[[ as you already have done a couple of times.]]..Ill be there. Wink

ummm that would be..no, you have no idea as you have displayed so often in the past.

Anyhoo...back to discrediting the Greens

there is little detailed policy online by the Greens in regard to foreign investment

That's because they have no idea

They have some good policies in regard to trade.

Such as...?

and who knows, maybe the Greens have had some influence in this decision.

Garbage...Speculation and innuendo from you once again

The Greens obviously aren't strict economists,

They are not economists at all. A vote for Greens is a vote for the destruction of our economy- which will in turn impact the environment in devastating way. You could even say that the Greens could eventually be responsible for the downfall of the environment because of stupid policy

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deepthought

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #50 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:05pm

mantra wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:50am:

Quote:

That kind of answers my assertion that the Greens (and their followers it seems) are filled with hatred and spite. The Exclusive Brethren (and/or its members) have the same rights as everyone else to be heard. But not according to Bob Brown, and you.

The Greens were put in a situation where they had to fight back and they did to the best of their ability. Of course the lives of the Bretheren would be equal to anyone else's life, but their rights to participate in certain aspects of Australian life have been restricted through their own choice.

The Greens are not filled with hatred and spite, nor am I. This seems to be the doctrine of the Liberals who spit out venom, then accuse the victim of being venomous.

The Greens were slandered in Tasmania and NZ in an enormous hate filled campaign by the Bretheren. My point is that if these people refuse to participate in Australian life by separating themselves to the extent they do and they don't have the same obligations as any other Australian citizen then they should be charged for their illegal and defammatory political campaigns. They don't follow the laws of the land, nor participate in choosing political parties. They are above the law - therefore they are not equal.

I disagree that the Greens were put in a situation where they 'had to fight back'. But even if they were, a taxpayer funded vendetta against the organisation is way over the top, particularly considering the Brethren don't vote. Why not ignore them? Or do you think there is some truth to the Brethren's assertions? See, had they actually disseminated lies or disinformation then a civil case of defamation could be mounted. The fact is that the Brethren only told the truth. The Greens oppose truth it seems so they mounted a senate inquiry to bully them into submission.

And that the Brethren may choose not to take up all their rights does not give anyone (as you suggest) the right to restrict any of their rights they choose to use. One is which that in a democracy we can criticise pollies and their parties. Everyone can - it is not a right reserved for The Greens or those who speak well of The Greens. If they set themselves up as a party expect criticism or stay at home.

I'm afraid you will not convince me that The Greens are not filled with hatred and spite. Bob Brown seemed to take personal offence at the Brethren. But what right has he to decide how others must live? Is he a dictator? Is he perfect? Does he think he's God? Why should anyone conform to Bob's standards?

The truth is they need not. But Bob can't accept that and he went after them like a weasel after its prey. He's not fit to lead a political party.

Incidentally if The Brethren are so foul why is little Kevvy chucking millions of dollars at them in the form of educational subsidies? According to you there is something rotten going on. Why is the Liebor Party not seeing what you are seeing?

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: How Do You Vote? Reply #51 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:07pm Quote: Like you care about my input DT..you ignore any post I put up even when they are adressed to you ,so save it . I find you to be disingenious sir. No worries Oceans. Don't say I didn't ask dude.
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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: How Do You Vote? Reply #52 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:24pm deepthought wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:07pm: Quote: Like you care about my input DT..you ignore any post I put up even when they are adressed to you ,so save it . I find you to be disingenious sir. No worries Oceans. Don't say I didn't ask dude. Dude? sorry but Im female..
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mantra

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #53 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:45pm

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The fact is that the Brethren only told the truth

That is incorrect for a start and their campaign of hate involved brochures using the Australian Greens logo, but with Bretheren/liberal propaganda inside. They were hand delivered to nearly every letterbox in Tasmania.

The Bretheren represent themselves as a regressive and feral extreme right wing religious group whose fanatical dislike of homosexuality and adoration of Howard, encouraged them to go to extreme lengths to vilify and destroy the Greens. With the financial assistance of the Tas Liberal Party they misrepresented and fraudulently printed propaganda in regard to the Greens Drug Policy. This propaganda still continues by word of mouth today by the brainwashed Howard lovers, who have neither the honesty or brains to look the policy detail up for themselves. It will prove not only are the Bretheren liars, but the Liberals are as well.

Quote:

, a taxpayer funded vendetta against the organisation is way over the top,

Which taxpayer funded vendetta is that supposed to be deepthought? I notice you have supplied no information to support this statement.

The rest of your post, about whether the Greens could be, would be, should be, is only speculation.

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IQSRLOW

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #54 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 9:13pm

they misrepresented and fraudulently printed propaganda in regard to the Greens Drug Policy.

Rather than call you out yet again on your mistruths and lies- perhaps you may care to check the records into which Bob Brown was questioned on these matters.

If it was really fraudulent, then why haven't the Greens pursued the matter civilly in the courts? After all, they are prepared to waste taxpayer monies time and time again with no adverse finding in bogus senate inquiries- but I suppose that doesn't bother you?

He actually tried the same trick against the Herald Sun when it reported on the Greens policies that were stated on their website and then later pulled down when the questions started being asked of 'who are you voting for' and was shot down in flames

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deepthought

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #55 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 9:19pm

mantra wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 8:45pm:

Which taxpayer funded vendetta is that supposed to be deepthought? I notice you have supplied no information to support this statement.

The rest of your post, about whether the Greens could be, would be, should be, is only speculation.

I assumed you knew as you are a keen follower of The Greens.

Bob Brown complained to the AEC and they subsequently investigated his frivolous and vicious complaints about electoral rorting - their findings? They have nothing to answer for.

He also set the Federal Police on them - their findings to date? Nothing as far as I am aware.

These organisations chew up vast sums of taxpayers money following dead ends at Bob's urging.

Similarly he has repeatedly wasted hour upon hour in the senate whining about them while important business is shoved aside. This august body is also funded by the taxpayer.

Meantime his bullying is picked up by his followers who also disseminate the lies he tells. It is nothing more than a coward with a big position throwing his weight around. Everyone else accepts their right to live as they choose.

The Brethren students do use computers in schools, the Brethren businesses use computers and telephones, and the Brethren live by the laws of this land - they have special dispensation due to their religion for some things - but so do many religious bodies. They are really no different. But Bob Brown hates them and persecutes them because he is nasty and vindictive.

Bob mostly lies about them.

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mantra

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #56 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 9:37pm

I do remember the police investigation and the documents and invoices relating to the propaganda were on the net and this matter is probably still being followed up. But Brown had every right to lodge a complaint with the AEC and the police - any political party would who had been subject to this sort of persecution by a religious organisation. Does it matter if he wasted an hour in the Senate advising them of the ploys used by this organisation - time has been wasted there before on less important matters.

Well deepthought - it appears you have first hand knowledge of the Bretheren using computers & telephones - that seems reasonable, but you left out the bit about media communication, tertiary education for the kids, exemption from our IR laws and you have to wonder if they pay tax - as they may be a religious group, but are they charitable?

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IQSRLOW

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #57 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 9:50pm

Again, you refuse the facts even after they are put in front of you and offer up speculation and ignore the fact that your beloved Greens have wasted taxpayers monies pursuing frivolous claims.

I do remember the police investigation and the documents and invoices relating to the propaganda were on the net and this matter is probably still being followed up.

Probably?? Try again Manta Roll Eyes

But Brown had every right to lodge a complaint with the AEC and the police - any political party would who had been subject to this sort of persecution by a religious organisation.

He has the right, no one is arguing that. The fact that it was obvious that the Greens weren't going to get anywhere with it because all their accusations were shown to be fact in reference to Green policies. Other than a few minor discrepancies such as *shock-horror* logo usage, all other claims were found to be completely factual as to the Greens wacky, weirdo and unthoughtout policies.

The Greens are a blight on the political landscape- as their policies show

Bob Brown and the Greens dislike anyone revealing the truth...as do their followers so it seems

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deepthought

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #58 - Feb 18^th, 2008 at 10:50pm

mantra wrote on Feb 18^th, 2008 at 9:37pm:

I do remember the police investigation and the documents and invoices relating to the propaganda were on the net and this matter is probably still being followed up. But Brown had every right to lodge a complaint with the AEC and the police - any political party would who had been subject to this sort of persecution by a religious organisation. Does it matter if he wasted an hour in the Senate advising them of the ploys used by this organisation - time has been wasted there before on less important matters.

Well deepthought - it appears you have first hand knowledge of the Bretheren using computers & telephones - that seems reasonable, but you left out the bit about media communication, tertiary education for the kids, exemption from our IR laws and you have to wonder if they pay tax - as they may be a religious group, but are they charitable?

It's quite well known to everyone but The Greens and their followers that Brethren schools use computers, it's also quite well known that Brethren schools are no different to any other private or religious school - they have to have the same curriculum as others to qualify for funding. Funding which they get from Liebor this year too. In fact under the coalition they got $7.4 million in 2005. Under Liebor they will get $10 million in 2008. Take it up with Liebor if you are opposed to their schools - you are amongst a pretty small minority who hate them. Liebor is shovelling more money at them in the form of computers.

It's also quite well known to everyone but indoctrinated Greens that all private and religious schools (not just Brethren schools) can choose who attends if they wish. I repeat, all private and religious schools may decide who their students will be.

There is an enormous amount of misinformation about the Brethren out there. All of it comes from the Greens it seems. They are unique in their vindictive hatred of people who are different and people who oppose them.

Individual Brethren pay tax just like you (assuming you are a taxpayer), the church does not - like every church.

I'm not sure that Bob Brown's waste of senate time with his vendetta is what the senate is about. Perhaps you think it is there to listen to Bob spitting his dummy because they don't like homosexuals and that troubles Bob, but I think it has a higher purpose.

I strongly doubt they have any dispensation from any laws that others are not granted - they are not unique though you seem to think they are because Bob said so - his lies about them are just that.

And if they choose not to watch TV they are probably smarter than you or me. You yourself said they are immensely wealthy so the lack of tertiary education doesn't appear to hinder their prosperity.

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mantra

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Re: How Do You Vote?
Reply #59 - Feb 19^th, 2008 at 6:57am

Quote:

you are amongst a pretty small minority who hate them

If that's the case - why hasn't there ever been anything positive written about them?

Quote:

Bob Brown and the Greens dislike anyone revealing the truth...as do their followers so it seems

Give it up IQ - that is just an outright porky. The Greens are growing in Australia and although they will never make a government - it is essential that they influence governments for the following reasons:

1. That more animals are protected (you'd like that one) and live exports stopped
2. That eventually all mining will be reduced substantially (we can grow organic crops on defunct uranium mine sites)
3. That refugees are no longer locked up and can be billeted to various homes (including yours IQ)

There are so many more positive policies which will benefit us in the long term. Remember - Bob Brown is a doctor and although some might find his medicine unpalatable - it is for our own good and that of our offspring, that we learn to take it.

We all want our progeny to have a future, so the Greens are about eliminating toxins - both human and mineral - from this planet. A definite 10% of Australia agree with me and who knows by the year 2050, these figures might be up to 51%.

But we won't give up the good fight - so stick that in your pipe and smoke it IQ.

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