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Is this a consensus statement? (Read 20428 times)
RecFisher
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #15 - Dec 18th, 2007 at 9:15pm
 
According to dictionary.com,

"consensus" = "An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole"

"statement" = "the communication of an idea, position, mood, or the like through something other than words"

Sounds like it qualifies to me, the "group as a whole" being those that signed it.  Whose to say an "organised minority" can't come up with a consensus statement!!!
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #16 - Dec 19th, 2007 at 12:13pm
 
So you define a consensus as a view agreed to by those who agree to it? By that definition, any statement is a consensus statement. Obviously, the 'group as a whole' cannot consist merely of those who agree with the statement, otherwise you destroy any meaning of the word consensus.

To put it really simply:

Consensus: this is what our peers agree on.

'Minority report' (for want of a better term): We think our peers are wrong.

Which term do you think applies best to the linked statement?
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RecFisher
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #17 - Dec 19th, 2007 at 9:51pm
 
So the number of people who didn't sign it is important?

The world is flat, or so the consensus once was.  I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #18 - Dec 20th, 2007 at 7:06am
 
So you agree it isn't a consensus statement?
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deepthought
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #19 - Dec 20th, 2007 at 7:26am
 
For it to be a consensus statement all that needs to happen is that all the parties involved agreed (or disagreed).  It appears they did.  It is a consensus statement by any rational definition.

I think you, freediver, are superimposing your view on it and making the claim it can't be consensus according to your subjective belief.  Once you remove yourself from the group (because your opinion wasn't sought) you will agree that all those who took part did agree.  Ergo a consensus was reached.

RecFisher is right.

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IQSRLOW
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Consensus is looking shaky
Reply #20 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 5:37pm
 
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport

U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007

Senate Report Debunks "Consensus"

Report Released on December 20, 2007

INTRODUCTION:      

Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore. 

The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee's office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007.

Even some in the establishment media now appear to be taking notice of the growing number of skeptical scientists. In October, the Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics "appear to be expanding rather than shrinking." Many scientists from around the world have dubbed 2007 as the year man-made global warming fears "bite the dust." (LINK)  In addition, many scientists who are also progressive environmentalists believe climate fear promotion has "co-opted" the green movement. (LINK)

This blockbuster Senate report lists the scientists by name, country of residence, and academic/institutional affiliation.  It also features their own words, biographies, and weblinks to their peer reviewed studies and original source materials as gathered from public statements, various news outlets, and websites in 2007. This new "consensus busters" report is poised to redefine the debate.

Many of the scientists featured in this report consistently stated that numerous colleagues shared their views, but they will not speak out publicly for fear of retribution. Atmospheric scientist Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, author of almost 70 peer-reviewed studies, explains how many of his fellow scientists have been intimidated.

"Many of my colleagues with whom I spoke share these views and report on their inability to publish their skepticism in the scientific or public media," Paldor wrote.
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #21 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 5:43pm
 
Strawman. What they are criticising is not the purported consensus.

These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.

I take issue with some of the things Al Gore says. If I looked into the IPCC stuff long enough I would probably also find something to take issue with. It is a lengthy report.

How many of these 400 scientists think humans are not contributing to climate change?
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #22 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 5:53pm
 
Senate Report Debunks "Consensus"

Seems pretty clear to me

How many of these 400 scientists think humans are not contributing to climate change?

The question is, to what degree and can anything logical be done about it
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #23 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:05pm
 
Seems pretty clear to me

About as clear as whether the opening post linked to a consensus statement, apparently.

The question is, to what degree and can anything logical be done about it

Easy: green tax shift.
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IQSRLOW
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #24 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:13pm
 
The 'to what degree' question needs to be answered first.

Easy: green tax shift.

Whether this is logical is debateable

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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #25 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:25pm
 
The 'to what degree' question needs to be answered first.

In the short term, we can easily stop the growth in CO2 emissions and start to cut them back. There is no need to plan the next 100 years of response, only the next 10 or so.

Whether this is logical is debateable

Go ahead:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168051896/51#51

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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #26 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:31pm
 
You haven't answered the 'to what degree' question yet...not to mention whether any action we take will make any difference short or long term.

Your 'Green Tax Shift' may or may not be a logical response
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #27 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:33pm
 
Yes I have answered the question.

Unless you concede that humans are responsible for global warming there is not much point going into detail about how far we should go in responding and what effect it will have.

Your 'Green Tax Shift' may or may not be a logical response

Are you trying to say you don't know whether it is a logical response?
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #28 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:40pm
 
Unless you concede that humans are responsible for global warming there is not much point going into detail about how far we should go in responding and what effect it will have.


Unless you concede that you don't know if humans are responsible and to what degree they are responsible then you must also concede that response of a 'green tax shift' might not be logical.
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Re: Is this a consensus statement?
Reply #29 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 6:48pm
 
Certainty is not a rational precondition for action.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/climate-change-for-the-sceptics.html
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