Australian Politics Forum - "We are a society not just an economy"

IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #45 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 8:35pm Obviously the per capita emissions are the most important measure. So you agree then that Australia is hitting above it's weight in regards to per capita wind power generation?
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deepthought

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #46 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 8:45pm

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 7:58pm:

Those figures did not prove you right. You got the maths completely wrong. The 0.1% figure is from the wikipedia article.

So do the maths and tell me where I went wrong. You appear to be very reluctant to back yourself on this, All you do is keep saying I'm wrong. So prove it dude.

And where in the article you posted does it say China has .1% of their power generated from the wind? The only time that figure is mentioned in the article is in relation to the US.

Quote:

According to the American Wind Energy Association, wind generated enough electricity to power 0.4% (1.6 million households) of total electricity in US, up from less than 0.1% in 1999.

Don't keep saying everyone is wrong. Try to show it with some facts. You are starting to look very dishonest mate.

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freediver

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #47 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:05pm

So you agree then that Australia is hitting above it's weight in regards to per capita wind power generation?

No. Well below. We are the highest per capita emitters of greenhouse gasses.

So do the maths and tell me where I went wrong. You appear to be very reluctant to back yourself on this, All you do is keep saying I'm wrong. So prove it dude.

China had 0.1% in 2005. I have no idea where you calculations went wrong.

And where in the article you posted does it say China has .1%

At the start.

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deepthought

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #48 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:17pm

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:05pm:

So you agree then that Australia is hitting above it's weight in regards to per capita wind power generation?

No. Well below. We are the highest per capita emitters of greenhouse gasses.

So do the maths and tell me where I went wrong. You appear to be very reluctant to back yourself on this, All you do is keep saying I'm wrong. So prove it dude.

China had 0.1% in 2005. I have no idea where you calculations went wrong.

And where in the article you posted does it say China has .1%

At the start.

Quote it if you would. Don't be shy.

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freediver

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #49 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:19pm

I'll simplify it for both of you.

1) China's per capita GHG emissions are only a fraction of ours. They will never reach our current level (though if we pull our finger out and make big cuts, we may end up with roughly the same emissions one day).

2) Despite the lower emissions, China is investing a massive amount in wind (as well as nuclear), at a time when Australia has stopped investing in wind. Howard killed off our wind energy industry and the jobs went to China. This should change under Rudd.

Thus Howard's assertion that we shouldn't do anything unless China does is absurd.

Wind power is not a measure of greenhouse emissions, but the increase in wind power is an indication of a government's efforts to reduce GHG.

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #50 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:20pm Why won't you quote where it says China gets .1% of its power from wind?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47436 At my desk.	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #51 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:22pm Past tense. That was 2005. It doubled in 2006 and is still going up.
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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #52 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 10:03pm freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 9:22pm: Past tense. That was 2005. It doubled in 2006 and is still going up. Despite me asking you several times to post it you have not. I can only assume you are lying.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39522 Gender:	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #53 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 10:09pm deep - get used to it. besides fd not answering questions when he is wrong, he is ok though
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #54 - Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 10:13pm So you agree then that Australia is hitting above it's weight in regards to per capita wind power generation? No. Well below. We are the highest per capita emitters of greenhouse gasses. Don't obfuscate- answer the question Does Australia currently have more wind power KW/per capita?
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deepthought

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #55 - Nov 24^th, 2007 at 5:49am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2007 at 10:09pm:

deep - get used to it.

besides fd not answering questions when he is wrong, he is ok though

I don't really need him to answer a question - my request is not that tough. I would like him to quote the evidence he relies on is all. He keeps saying I'm wrong but won't quote the source he uses to make that claim. And he won't tell me why he reckons my math is wrong even though his own figures prove him wrong.

It's very cowardly of a forum participant to keep saying you are wrong and that the evidence is out there somewhere.

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freediver

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #56 - Nov 24^th, 2007 at 9:26am

Sorry I just realised I gave the wrong link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_China

Growth rates for wind power in China have far exceeded the world average, although China still lags behind many countries in terms of total wind power installations. In 2005, with a total production of 2.375 TWh, wind, combined with all other renewables except for hydro comprised 0.10013% of the electricity production in China.[1]

A growing local manufacturing base and an increasingly strong policy environment and contributed to China more than doubling of its wind power capacity in 2006, to a total of 2,588 MW.[2]

In 2005 China had the world's largest total investment in renewable energy sources (excluding large scale hydropower plants)

IQ - possibly - the states went a long way with their MRET scheme, but then Howard took it over and killed it off. It's kind of beside the point though, we are still the world's highest emitters of GHG's, we have stopped investment in renewables, and our current PM (for the moment) is pointing his finger at poor countries with lower per capita emissions and bigger per capita renewable energy programs. We do not just need to match the per capita renewables figure, we need to match the per capita emissions. It's a bit of a copout to say you have more wind energy per capita when that's because it is a minute part of a huge energy consumption per capita that has 5 times the per capita emissions. To match China's per capita emissions we would need 80% renewables.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

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deepthought

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Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti
Reply #57 - Nov 24^th, 2007 at 11:25am

freediver wrote on Nov 24^th, 2007 at 9:26am:

Sorry I just realised I gave the wrong link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_China

Growth rates for wind power in China have far exceeded the world average, although China still lags behind many countries in terms of total wind power installations. In 2005, with a total production of 2.375 TWh, wind, combined with all other renewables except for hydro comprised 0.10013% of the electricity production in China.[1]

I expect you will apologise. That 0.1% you so eagerly kept screeching at me includes all other renewables. The fact is that wind is only part of it - the others include Geothermal, Solar, Wood and Waste. I know because I followed the link that you finally provided after all your blustering.

Your apology if you would good sir for saying I was wrong when it is clearly you who is.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47436 At my desk.	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #58 - Nov 24^th, 2007 at 1:19pm It does not include all other renewables. It excludes hydro - the only other significant renewable source employed. The doubling in 2006 and the increase since then is almost exclusively wind power.
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: "We are a society not just an economy" - parti Reply #59 - Nov 24^th, 2007 at 4:07pm So when is that apology coming?
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