It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 1:30am:


Well summed up. The only problem with that is that the vast majority of 'atheists' (non-religious individuals) are not very vocal and probably vaguely in favour of religion.

The vast majority of real atheists are not scientists, and the vast majority of scientists don't lay claim to the assertion that science shows that no gods exist.

The ones you see on internet forums evangelising about 'atheism' are actually anti-theists - and they are actually very irritating for most atheists, who would rather not talk about it.

In the last Census there were more atheists in certain states than there were Catholics (the biggest Christian religion in Australia). On the next census, if the trend continues, there will be even more. Christians are dropping at the rate of about 3% per census year.  (feel free to correct me - I'm going on memory)

Now what percentage of those (say) 5 million atheists are of the feral (eccentric, scientist, occidental) variety?

It's got to be miniscule.

athos wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 9:53am:


Let me just change a few words:

Quote:


Don't go down that track athos. What you're really saying is that religion is all about the brain. Yes, you might find  agreement from some atheists there.

I don't think there is much difference between the brain of an atheist and the brain of a theist, and there is not much difference between the behaviour of feral Christians (eg the monks in Hypatia's day) and feral atheists. 

It comes down to semantics and attitudes.

athos wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 10:07am:



I agree with that statement. You can't teach anybody Quantum mechanics. That much is obvious from your interpretation.

muso wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 10:06am:

What I am saying is that the brain is a part of the whole picture. After all without brain we can not think. Different parts of our brain have different functions. but all together they contribute in forming our conciseness or spiritual intelligence or our awareness about spirituality which means ultimate reality.
One of the reason for spiritual and other crises of western society is that education process neglected other human capacities than rational way of thinking. Basically in this way you reduce a human on computer or robot animal by using not more than 15% of brain capacity. I am not sure if it's been done deliberately or due ignorant arrogance.
The problem with IQ and corresponding tests is that can not take in consideration two vital human characteristics and that is: Creativity  Morality and intuition.
“IQ or serial thinking is similar to processing done by computers. Indeed, because of this similarity cognitive science has tended to put the cart before the horse, explaining human thinking and intelligence in terms of computer processing. “ (Ref 1)

“The IQ a simplistic model of “thinking”, as something linear, logical and dispassionate, is not wrong, its just very limited. It is derived from Aristotelian syllogism (two statements and one conclusion) and arithmetic.
Human beings are very good at this kind of thinking, surprisingly as well as lower animals.” (Ref 1 ).

IQ tests can only judge “intelligence” based on individual capacity to conform someone else model disregarding creativity and sense of ethics.
So far the importance of IQ has been overestimated and forcefully introduced almost everywhere in the society giving power to brainy yuppies who are only interested how to live and not why they live.
As a result of that today we live in “Dumb and schizoid society” (Ref 1) with polluted environment, massive obesity, depressive individuals, immoral business manipulations, compassionless doctors, incompetent passionless professionals etc.

( Ref1: Spiritual intelligence the ultimate intelligence - D. Zohar & I. Marshall )

While I think that the book is pushing a religious agenda, and the IQ/SQ part is so much quackery strongly reminiscent of Sigmund Freud, I agree that many young atheists are losing the spiritual side of their life.

The suicide rate among young atheists is higher than that found  in religious people. I've always thought that some atheists reject absolutely everything that's vaguely spiritual and in so doing, they "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

I think it's stupid to try to classify religious people as somehow abnormal, and the same goes for non-religious people.

- but if we don't exercise parts of the brain, they start to lose function. That exercise doesn't have to include a belief in any one particular religion.  Just appreciating the natural world and 'getting out to sniff the roses' now and again can help. 

I can fully understand how young people who sit in front of a computer screen until 7am playing RPG's can get suicidal.  It doesn't take any elaborate quotients to work that one out.

athos wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 10:33am:


I didn't mean to offend, but quantum mechanics is very often misunderstood and misinterpreted by certain religious sites. Most aspects of it cannot be applied outside the sub-atomic scale.

I don't intend to get you angry. You seem like a decent traditional type of person. OK,  It might be just as entertaining as when I get angry, but hey - it's good not to take ourselves too seriously  now and again.  

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 1:30am:



Atheism is not a parasite on religion, it's the logical outcome of refuting it.
To believe in something that cannot be empirically validated opens the gates to all sorts of wacky claims. Atheism is a state of science. Science measures and conceptualises phenomenon. Christianity and Islam's metaphysics can not be measured or conceptualised in any meaningful way. It relies on unfounded retroactive projections.
Once again, if we allow such claims to become acceptable then anything can be stated and taken as true.
Why, just yesterday I intuited that small mice actually make the sun give off heat.

muso wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 10:36am:



But just being suicidal doesn't prove the metaphysics of Christianity and Islam to be true. You're pointing to religion here being more of a "coping mechanism".