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No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools (Read 11230 times)
freediver
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No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Nov 4th, 2007 at 4:36pm
 
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/No-shirt-no-swim-rule-for-Qld-schools/2007/11/04/1194117859524.html

Queensland state primary students will be made to wear sun shirts while swimming from next year.

The state government said "rashie" shirts would become part of the primary school uniform code to boost to sun protection rules.

Ms Bligh said the only exception to wearing sun shirts would be during races at school swimming carnivals.

Ms Bligh said child-sized sun-shirts - which help block harmful UV rays - were now available at chain stores from $15, making them affordable for most parents.

In circumstances where parents can't afford them, children would still be required to wear a T-shirt in the water, she said.

All primary and secondary schools will have to provide a broad-spectrum, water-resistant sunscreen of SPF 30 or better for students as part of the new rules.
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deepthought
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2007 at 5:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 4th, 2007 at 4:36pm:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/No-shirt-no-swim-rule-for-Qld-schools/2007/11/04/1194117859524.html

Queensland state primary students will be made to wear sun shirts while swimming from next year.

The state government said "rashie" shirts would become part of the primary school uniform code to boost to sun protection rules.

Ms Bligh said the only exception to wearing sun shirts would be during races at school swimming carnivals.

Ms Bligh said child-sized sun-shirts - which help block harmful UV rays - were now available at chain stores from $15, making them affordable for most parents.

In circumstances where parents can't afford them, children would still be required to wear a T-shirt in the water, she said.

All primary and secondary schools will have to provide a broad-spectrum, water-resistant sunscreen of SPF 30 or better for students as part of the new rules.


This is a good idea.  It seems peculiar though that at the same time some boofheads are suggesting we adopt daylight saving so our kids can be in the sun longer.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2007 at 7:05pm
 
That's in the late evening, when it is safe to be outside without a shirt on (until the mozzies come).
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2007 at 8:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 4th, 2007 at 7:05pm:
That's in the late evening, when it is safe to be outside without a shirt on (until the mozzies come).


Oh I see, they just add an extra hour at the end of the day hey.  How do they do that?   Tongue
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #4 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 3:49pm
 
They take it away from the morning.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #5 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 5:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 3:49pm:
They take it away from the morning.


Quite right - thereby moving the whole day back an hour.   A 3 o clock swim is actually a 2 o clock swim, and a swim after school which used to be outside the danger period of 11 am to 3 pm is now inside that period.

Daylight saving is for southerners but not in the sub tropics or the tropics if you value your health.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #6 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 5:43pm
 
They should still be in school at 3.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #7 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 5:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 5:43pm:
They should still be in school at 3.


3 on the clock, but the earth keeps rotating - it doesn't know it's now 3 and turns the sun's fierce heat down.  The real time is 2 pm still.  It doesn't change because you altered your watch.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 5:54pm
 
They are still in school, so it doesn't matter what the real time is.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 6:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 5:54pm:
They are still in school, so it doesn't matter what the real time is.


You don't seem to understand the consequences of adjusting your clock.

If you move your clock the world doesn't change - only your clock does.  2 pm becomes 3 pm.  When the kids leave school by the clock at 3 o clock, the real time is still 2 o clock.  It is still in the danger zone of high UV rays.  But as I don't seem to be explaining it well try this


Quote:
In Queensland, virtually all schools finish for the day at approximately 3 pm. On daylight saving, school children right across the state would have no choice but to travel home at what is now 2 pm EST. According to the above graphs, the Brisbane UV level at 3 pm is '3' (moderate), while at 2 pm the level is '7' (high); in Townsville, the UV level at 3 pm is '5' (moderate) and at 2 pm '9' (very high). In terms of this data, the permanent shift in school children's going-home time from 3 pm to what is now 2 pm EST represents virtually double the UVR exposure risk.

To give another scenario: In Queensland, it is compulsory for schools to offer sport on at least one afternoon per week. Given that the average playing time for school sports matches across the state is between 1.30 pm and 2.30 pm, daylight saving would force these matches to be played between what is now 12.30 pm and 1.30 pm EST. According to the above data, the UV level in Brisbane at 1.30 pm is '7' (high) and at 12.30 pm, '10' (very high); in Townsville, the UV levels for these times are respectively '9' (very high) and '12' (extreme). Again, in terms of this data, the permanent shift of school sports matches from 1.30 pm to what is now 12.30 pm EST represents approximately a 30 per cent higher UVR exposure risk.

Source

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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #10 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 6:18pm
 
They have to wear hats etc for school sport. They should wear them on the way home too. They don't have to jump in the pool straight after school. Most would head home for a feed first.

Now they have the option of playing early in the morning, when the UV readings are lowest.

I was never let out until after 3pm. By the time I got to the pool is was much later.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #11 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 6:18pm:
They have to wear hats etc for school sport. They should wear them on the way home too. They don't have to jump in the pool straight after school. Most would head home for a feed first.

Now they have the option of playing early in the morning, when the UV readings are lowest.

I was never let out until after 3pm. By the time I got to the pool is was much later.


Queensland has the highest incidence of skin cancer in the world - the reason is easy to figure out.

From a government web site


Quote:
How long does it take to get sunburnt?

Sensitive skin can start to burn in as little as ten minutes during the middle of the day in an Australian midsummer, but the skin won’t begin to redden or show signs of burning for about another two to three hours. So if you stay in the sun until you’re already pink before applying some protection, you are already severely burnt. Apply sunscreen before going into the sun.


You'll never convince me that furthering the risk of skin cancer is good for anyone.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #12 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:27pm
 
You haven't yet convinced me that this increases the risk of skin cancer.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #13 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:27pm:
You haven't yet convinced me that this increases the risk of skin cancer.


I'm not certain why your own eyes haven't convinced you.  Let's take a look at the graph in the link I provided.

...

As you can (I hope) see from this government compiled graph the danger of UV radiation is high at 2 o clock and moderate at 3 o clock.  Once you alter your clock 3 o clock becomes 2 o clock.  Put simply this means kids leave the shelter of school during the worst possible time to be in the sun.

Increasing the exposure increases the risk.  The Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency says

Quote:
Over exposure to ultraviolet radiation can cause short term health effects such as sunburn. Long term exposure to ultraviolet radiation can increase the risk of damage to the skin and eyes which may result in skin cancers and cataracts.


Long term exposure means leaving school every day during the solar furnaces worst time.  I don't know what more I can say if you don't believe the evidence of your own eyes.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #14 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:44pm
 
Put simply this means kids leave the shelter of school during the worst possible time to be in the sun.

No it doesn't. Not according to your graph anyway.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #15 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:53pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:44pm:
Put simply this means kids leave the shelter of school during the worst possible time to be in the sun.

No it doesn't. Not according to your graph anyway.


Yup they do.  The school my nephew attends has lunch at 1 o clock and leaves to go home at 3 o clock.

Altering the clock would put him in the school ground at 12 o clock (real time) and on the footpath walking home at 2 o clock.  A combined blast of sun that would increase his risk several times.  They also play sports in the last period - this would then become 1 o clock or so.

Why do you have so much trouble seeing the truth mate?
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #16 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:57pm
 
Obviously if you only pay attention to what happens after midday you can only get one result. but that's only if you look at half the picture. The reality is far less clear cut.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #17 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 9:57pm:
Obviously if you only pay attention to what happens after midday you can only get one result. but that's only if you look at half the picture. The reality is far less clear cut.


Tell me the reality then.  So far you appear to be completely blind to it.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #18 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 10:03pm
 
The difference is that I'm not taking a one-eyed approach to it. I woudn't preume to be able to take a quick glance at a graph and figure out what the end result will be.

Consider this for example. People tend to seek shade when it is hotter, but temperature does not corelate exactly with UV exposure. There is a lengthy delay. This would indicate that mornings are a riskier time for sunburn, increasing the significance of the 9->8 shift.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #19 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 10:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 5th, 2007 at 10:03pm:
The difference is that I'm not taking a one-eyed approach to it. I woudn't preume to be able to take a quick glance at a graph and figure out what the end result will be.

Consider this for example. People tend to seek shade when it is hotter, but temperature does not corelate exactly with UV exposure. There is a lengthy delay. This would indicate that mornings are a riskier time for sunburn, increasing the significance of the 9->8 shift.


Temperature doesn't co-relate at all.   It is the position of the sun and the angle of the UV rays through the atmosphere.  The higher the sun, the more direct they are, the less scatter of UV rays.  It can be cold as blazes but still very risky to be in the sun at midday.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #20 - Nov 5th, 2007 at 10:53pm
 
I'm with you Deep- You can jam DLS where the sun don't shine and that is up a politicians a*rse

WA is in the same boat as QLD and at a referendum it was voted down 3 times. Yet because of the p*iss poor performance of the Labor party, they decided to bring in controversial legislation on the basis of a narrow margin at the referendums.

This will bite them big time next election. These b*arstads owe me about 90 days x 1hour @ ~ $80/hr x 3 years = ~ $20000

Stick with a single time frame year round and stock f*ucking with my body clock

DLS sucks balls
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #21 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 11:10am
 
Temperature doesn't co-relate at all.

There is a strong local correlation between UV intensity and temperature. There is an even stronger correlation between history of UV intensity and temperature.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #22 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 3:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 6th, 2007 at 11:10am:
Temperature doesn't co-relate at all.

There is a strong local correlation between UV intensity and temperature. There is an even stronger correlation between history of UV intensity and temperature.


Not even close.  In fact UV radiation levels can be higher in Antarctica in Spring, where it is still freezing cold, than in California in mid summer when it is steamy.

There is no relationship at all between temperature and UV radiation.  It has to do with proximity to the sun and the amount of atmosphere which scatters the rays.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #23 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 3:37pm
 
There is no relationship at all between temperature and UV radiation.

Completely wrong.

It has to do with proximity to the sun

proximity to the sun?

and the amount of atmosphere which scatters the rays

Both prximity to the sun (if it were a relevant factor) and atmospheric scattering affect both temperature and UV intensity, thus not breaking the correlation.

In fact UV radiation levels can be higher in Antarctica in Spring

Three things. I used the word local. Also, the correlation is stronger when you take history into account, which explains your observation. Finally, a single counterexample does not break a correlation. To suggest that it does indicates unfamiliarity with the meaning of the term.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #24 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 6:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 6th, 2007 at 3:37pm:
There is no relationship at all between temperature and UV radiation.

Completely wrong.

It has to do with proximity to the sun

proximity to the sun?

and the amount of atmosphere which scatters the rays

Both prximity to the sun (if it were a relevant factor) and atmospheric scattering affect both temperature and UV intensity, thus not breaking the correlation.

In fact UV radiation levels can be higher in Antarctica in Spring

Three things. I used the word local. Also, the correlation is stronger when you take history into account, which explains your observation. Finally, a single counterexample does not break a correlation. To suggest that it does indicates unfamiliarity with the meaning of the term.


Yes, proximity to the sun.  The earth's orbit around the sun is eccentric - the elliptical rotation changes over time - bringing it, at times, nearer or farther.  Further to this it wobbles on its axis.  The difference can be quite dramatic and this in combination draws a given point on the earth closer or further away from the sun.  The 'proximity' of a particular spot (the playground at the primary school) changes, and this increases or decreases the amount of solar radiation (UV) arriving there.

At the peak of a mountain range one can be blasted by high doses of solar radiation but still freeze to death so I have no idea why you think the presence of UV radiation will make one warm at the same time.  You are wrong.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #25 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 7:20am
 
No I'm not. I said there was a strong correlation. Perhaps you should get out a dictionary.
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Re: No shirt, no swim rule for Qld schools
Reply #26 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 10:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 7th, 2007 at 7:20am:
No I'm not. I said there was a strong correlation. Perhaps you should get out a dictionary.


Possibly I should.  While I do perhaps you would be so kind as to explain why it's possible to get irradiated with UV waves while freezing to death, if there is a strong correlation between temperature and the UV index.
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