Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 27
Send Topic Print
Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool (Read 63341 times)
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Oct 15th, 2007 at 7:45pm
 
Marine parks are an ideal fisheries management tool. There is a strong scientific consensus that they increase biodiversity, increase the number of fish from species targeted by fishermen, guard against the shortcomings of other management tools and guard against the risk of fishery collapse. While most fisheries management tools become less useful as a fishery starts to collapse, marine parks become more useful. For example, quotas, total allowable catches for commercial fishermen and bag limits for recreational fishermen may work well while fish stocks are at healthy levels, but as soon as fish stocks start to decline they offer no protection because they no longer limit catches.

In addition to the claims of increased productivity, experience has shown that protected spots recover very quickly and experience a rapid increase in fish numbers in the first year or two. The only exception to this is where stocks have collapsed completely. There is also a growing consensus that areas close to no take zones receive most of the benefit from the spillover effect.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/fish/marine-parks-fisheries-management-tool.html

Please limit this thread to comments and discussion on the article. There is a lot of general discussion of marine parks here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1187314210
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
IQSRLOW
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 1618
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #1 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 8:11pm
 
Are artificial reefs endorsed by conservationist/ fisheries as enhancing the 'spillover' effect or are they just concentrating and attracting the biology to a particular area?

Does the spillover effect actually exist? If it does then the promotion and construction of major artificial reef systems should be considered immediately
Back to top
 

Political Animal has little moderation. It is the forum for free speech and free thinkers to converse passionately without the threat of being banned. It is a forum for adults.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #2 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:01am
 
Sounds expensive.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
merou
Full Member
***
Offline


Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #3 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 4:31pm
 
IQSRLOW wrote on Oct 15th, 2007 at 8:11pm:
Does the spillover effect actually exist? If it does then the promotion and construction of major artificial reef systems should be considered immediately


That's a great idea, maybe it would promote migration.
Would the fish in a protected area breed less in a small area with no close reef areas for the population to migrate to. Reef fish are not going to migrate from the protected reef to "spillover" into a barren patch of sand.
Back to top
 

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.
 
IP Logged
 
RecFisher
Senior Member
****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 347
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #4 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 6:55pm
 
merou wrote on Oct 16th, 2007 at 4:31pm:
Reef fish are not going to migrate from the protected reef to "spillover" into a barren patch of sand.


But that's what we were told by the MPA would happen in Bateman's Bay.  Were we being conned?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
merou
Full Member
***
Offline


Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #5 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:39pm
 
RecFisher wrote on Oct 16th, 2007 at 6:55pm:
But that's what we were told by the MPA would happen in Bateman's Bay.  Were we being conned?


From the complaints that I've read from fishermen, it is my understanding that is how they try and sell the idea to the public. A lot of tree hugging voters have no idea what the hell they are supporting most of the time, they just smoke their pot and think if a "scientist" looking bloke with some letters after his name says that fish will spillover into the sand patches, then they must.

It is these actions that lose the support of recfishers, we need fisheries management in the form of bag limits and marine parks, but they need to be able to sustain recfishing needs too. The current method of turning all the good fishing spots into sanctuary or no take zones sucks. Why should we support these decisions when all they do is take, take, take.

If there is a 2km stretch of coastline with reef stretching 500m at each end and sand in the middle.......true to form, the marine park would cover the reef at each end and recfishers would be told "hey, we didn't take it all.....you still have a whole kilometre of coastline to fish in......what is the problem? fish the "spillover". The problem is there is sweet FA for the fish to spillover into.

Maybe if they built an artificial reef on part of that sand patch the fish could migrate and eventually there actualy would be "spillover", at the moment there is no evidence to suggest that spillover actualy occurs, if there is, I'm sure Freediver will have it, find it, or alternitavely just ask for the proof that spillover does not occur.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:45pm by merou »  

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #6 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 12:27pm
 
they just smoke their pot and think if a "scientist" looking bloke with some letters after his name says that fish will spillover into the sand patches

I've seen some very decent fish I usually associate with reef on what is almost bare sand in protected areas. Even areas that are poor structurally can hold a lot of fish when sufficiently protected.

As far as I know the scientific community is pushing for equal coverage of all area types, presumably including sand.

How much more 'inherently productive' is reef compared to a sandy bottom or open water?
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
merou
Full Member
***
Offline


Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #7 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 4:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2007 at 12:27pm:
I've seen some very decent fish I usually associate with reef on what is almost bare sand in protected areas.


I have seen good reef fish over sand too, but they don't populate these areas.

Quote:
As far as I know the scientific community is pushing for equal coverage of all area types, presumably including sand.


Ok then, maybe they should start the catch up process and lock up some barren areas, but what is the point? although you might see fish in these areas there is going to be no "population" to protect.
Back to top
 

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #8 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 4:10pm
 
although you might see fish in these areas there is going to be no "population" to protect

You sure about that? What about flathead? I've seen some very barren reef areas too. Even in apparently barren areas you get lots of little bits like rocks, coffee rock, logs, washing machines etc that resemble reef that often have fish hanging around. I think the main difference is that the species involved generally move around a lot further. So you would go for fewer, larger no take zones.

Also, if they are so barren, then the loss to fishermen is equally minimal. The stakes are far lower, but the same principle applies.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
charlie
New Member
*
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 43
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #9 - Oct 18th, 2007 at 5:39pm
 
Yes freediver is right we should protect all the washing machines
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
merou
Full Member
***
Offline


Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #10 - Oct 19th, 2007 at 11:50am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2007 at 4:10pm:
You sure about that? What about flathead? I've seen some very barren reef areas too. Even in apparently barren areas you get lots of little bits like rocks, coffee rock, logs, washing machines etc that resemble reef that often have fish hanging around.


I think your clutching at straws there FD. I once saw a motorbike frame on the top of a bommie, but I wouldn't go diving on bommies looking for a motorbike.
Quote:
resemble reef that often have fish hanging around

So are you saying that, rather than head to the reef, "if there are "fish" hanging around, it would justify spending the money on fuel and equipement, and planning a day with your family or mates to go fishing on a washing machine and some coffee rock"?
I don't just shoot "fish" for the hell of it, if I was to hunt for my target species on sand I would get one ...............once or twice a year, hardly worth it really.
You can claim the MPA's are equal in the amount of bare sandy areas as they are in reefy fishy areas, but honestly, you know full well it is not true.
Back to top
 

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #11 - Oct 19th, 2007 at 11:55am
 
So are you saying that, rather than head to the reef, "if there are fish hanging around, it would justify spending the money on fuel and equipement, and planning a day with your family or mates to go fishing on a washing machine and some coffee rock"?

Actually, some of my best catches have been from places like that. The diving isn't as interesting though.

You can claim the MPA's are equal in the amount of bare sandy areas as they are in reefy fishy areas, but honestly, you know full well it is not true.

I have no idea whether it is true or not, but it should be.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Kiribati creates huge marine reserve
Reply #12 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:53pm
 
http://news.smh.com.au/kiribati-creates-huge-marine-reserve/20080214-1sb1.html

The Pacific island nation of Kiribati has created the world's largest protected marine reserve, conservation groups say.

They describe it as a California-sized wilderness, brimming with reefs, fish and birds.

The Phoenix Islands Protected Area, covering 410,500 square kilometres, is one of the planet's last intact coral archipelagos and is threatened by over-fishing and climate change, the groups say.

It lies near the equator about half way between Fiji and Hawaii.

The protected zone is more than double the area Kiribati originally pledged to protect at a UN biodiversity conference in Brazil in 2006.

"The new boundary includes extensive seamount and deep-sea habitat, tuna spawning grounds and as yet unsurveyed submerged reef systems," said Greg Stone, the aquarium's vice-president of global marine programs.

Kiribati says it needs more money to pay for surveillance against illegal fishing as well as develop a trust fund, possibly as large as $US100 million ($A111.6 million), to pay for running costs and compensate the government for lost income from commercial fishing licences.

"A major part of the operational cost is the surveillance and we have a patrol boat donated by Australia," Tebwe Ietaake, secretary of Kiribati's environment ministry, told Reuters.

"We are also looking at the cooperation of Australia and New Zealand in aerial surveillance flights over the region," he said.

He said the government would still allow subsistence fishing by local fishing communities.

The expanded Phoenix islands reserve is closely matched in size to the Papahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument in Hawaii, the single largest conservation area under the US flag, covering 357,000 square kilometres of the Pacific Ocean.

Australia's Great Barrier Reef Marine Park covers about 345,000 square kilometres, and extends more than 2,300km along the Queensland coast.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
IQSRLOW
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 1618
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #13 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 10:55pm
 
I have no idea whether it is true or not, but it should be.

It should be , but it isn't- at least not in any of the sanctuary zones that I have seen implemented recently.

In my opinion any zones should be relatively narrow strips that stretch out to the 200nm EEZ to lessen the impact on users and aid compliance but more fully protect the complete biodiversity of a region rather than the slap hazard way we have things now of locking up only the most productive areas of reef,  because that is the only data the 'lock em up' brigade has.

A strip zone mentality protects not only the productive reefs but also the possible migratory paths of the same biology living in those ecosystems. These zones should also be completely free of humans- no diving or anchoring either- it's a far more encompassing system- which is what marine parks should be focussed on- but they are currently not.
Back to top
 

Political Animal has little moderation. It is the forum for free speech and free thinkers to converse passionately without the threat of being banned. It is a forum for adults.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36537
I like fish
Re: Marine Parks as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 9:05am
 
In my opinion any zones should be relatively narrow strips that stretch out to the 200nm EEZ

The size of the zone must take into consideration the movement of the common target species and the methods used. This would mean that you get smaller more numerous NTZ's close to shore and fewer larger ones offshore. The strip thing could work, if some of them ended closer to shore and some became wider.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 27
Send Topic Print