Australian Politics Forum

IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: Food Reply #45 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 6:46pm How is it a moot point if 'urban eco-warriors' create the conflict?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47447 At my desk.	Re: Food Reply #46 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 6:52pm Who you blame for starting the conflict does not affect whether the point is moot. The point is moot because it is not the reason why they oppose the practice. Their opposition is not based on ignorance of the situation.
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: Food Reply #47 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 6:55pm It is based on their ignorance of the complexity of the situations
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oceanz

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Re: Food
Reply #48 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 7:01pm

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 5:27pm:

mantra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 4:08pm:

I have no problem Oceans if an animal is killed quickly and humanely - as you say your husband who was a professional hunter, did.

But like you I agree our farming practices leave a lot to be desired. The breeding of animals for consumption is horrific in some industries. Australia is slow to implement animal welfare laws and as far as animal export goes, the ALP put a stop to this practice. When the Liberals got back into power, they could see a lucrative industry and revived it.

Seems as though some people believe that animals feel no pain.

Most people who believe our farming practises need overhauling are so far removed from what farming life entails that they wouldn't know.

This is the age of technology and information overload IQ..there are very few pple who are not aware of issues anywhere in the world on anything at all.

We could hardly miss it..

Australia is not only slow to implement laws re: animal welfare but the laws are in some cases cancelling each other out.These laws are fundamentally flawed and self interest groups. making it worse...the RSPCA included ,impede progress by pandering to Ministerial pressure from whoever is in office at the time., as they rely on these Minsters to provide funds to them to keep going. The RSPCA is a sham.As a genuine anuimal welfare advocate..trying to negotiate this minefield of contradictions is a nightmare.

Especially in relation to the Live Export problem.

Our farming practices are desperately in need of overhauling..as I said they are archaic and cruel and anyone who says its not..needs to open thyre eyes and see whats really going on.

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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: Food Reply #49 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 7:09pm and by the way..what is a 'MOOT"..kinda like a cute fluffy owl?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47447 At my desk.	Re: Food Reply #50 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 7:26pm IQ, the situation is only complex if you apply a false dichotomy. If you avoid the false dichotomy it is simple: farm something else instead that is suited to the area.
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: Food Reply #51 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 8:14pm I realise the point you are trying to make, but that isn't going to happen. Reality rarely has simple answers.
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oceanz

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Re: Food
Reply #52 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:07pm

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 5:42pm:

Which is their prerogative. Niche markets are a valuable part of an economy.

The real problems lie when PETARDS hijack farming practises such as mulesing and portray farmers in a bad light. This perpetuates a false image that sticks in the minds of urban eco-warriors that pontificate from their McMansions in suburbia

If this is the response PETA gets from 'hijacking farming paractices '..this is a good thing..But you dont see anything wrong with farming practices IQ..so you would not agree with that statement.

That is not the real problem..the real problem, from the animal welafre perspective, is beuracrats who use the animal welfare issues as a platform to feather their nests in the name of 'Animal Welfare' when in raelity its a front for theyre shady dealings..its very complex, long and protracted..the animals the last consideration by these groups..who siphon off funds for themselves.

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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: Food Reply #53 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:14pm Does PETA mean Please Eat The Animals.
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oceanz

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Re: Food
Reply #54 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:20pm

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 5:52pm:

They portray the farmers as being cruel by performing mulesing when it achieves the opposite effect on the percentage of overall loss of livestock and a long drawn out death.

They portray the farmer as cruel if the farmer is cruel..If the farmer can muells using an anesthetic ie topical and chooses not to then that is cruel.
Arcahic and backward.

Have you ever seen what happens to a sheep who is mutilated thru a bad muells? It get blown by flies and or dies or bleeds to death.So a farmer who can prevent this and doesnt..ought to be prosecuted . I think your trying to say..cruelty is ok as long as the farmer gets his profit and is not too inconvenienced in having to consider the cost involved, if any , to the welfare and comfort of his animals. He is not god.

So called 'eco warriors' as you call them need to jump up and down about this stuff.

Profits should not come before suffering.

Your post makes no sense to me....sorry.

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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: Food Reply #55 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:24pm Ausnat wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:14pm: Does PETA mean Please Eat The Animals. no it means People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Aussie.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals
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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: Food Reply #56 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:25pm I like my term better. I LOVE MEAT!
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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: Food Reply #57 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:33pm Most of us do.. But I think we would all like to see that they are treated and farmed humanely ,from farm to abbatiors..
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IQSRLOW

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Re: Food
Reply #58 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:41pm

Have you ever seen what happens to a sheep who is mutilated thru a bad muells? It get blown by flies and or dies or bleeds to death.

Do you even understand why mulesing is performed? Do you understand that a farmer does not want his livestock to die nor inflict needless suffering (which is why mulesing came about)?

I think your trying to say..cruelty is ok as long as the farmer gets his profit and is not too inconvenienced in having to consider the cost involved, if any , to the welfare and comfort of his animals. He is not god.

It is obvious that you have no idea on the relationship a farmer has with his land and livestock. You have no idea about what constitutes good animal husbandry and it certainly doesn't surprise me nor do I care that you can't comprehend specifics behind my posts.

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oceanz

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Re: Food
Reply #59 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:58pm

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 9:41pm:

Have you ever seen what happens to a sheep who is mutilated thru a bad muells? It get blown by flies and or dies or bleeds to death.

Do you even understand why mulesing is performed? Do you understand that a farmer does not want his livestock to die nor inflict needless suffering (which is why mulesing came about)?

I think your trying to say..cruelty is ok as long as the farmer gets his profit and is not too inconvenienced in having to consider the cost involved, if any , to the welfare and comfort of his animals. He is not god.

It is obvious that you have no idea on the relationship a farmer has with his land and livestock. You have no idea about what constitutes good animal husbandry and it certainly doesn't surprise me nor do I care that you can't comprehend specifics behind my posts.

yes I do understand..grew up on stations as kids..sheep stations...I didnt google it.

My arguement is about forward thinking and changing bad farming practices not argueing about and defending retrospectrive and backward farming practices, that are convenient for farmers and bad for animals..are you even up to speed here?

You have never been on station Ill bet.

"Have you ever seen what happens to a sheep who is mutilated thru a bad muells? It get blown by flies and or dies or bleeds to death."

You didnt even answer the question..muelsing came about a very long time ago..to avaid his sheep from being flyblown..wheres the genuis in that ?

So it being 2007 now IQ..why are they still inflicting these cruel practices in this day and age?..for the convenience of farmers..just because something has always been done doesn not mean it should always remain so..where would we be if our doctors were not continually up to speed on the lates that medicine had to offer his patients.

There are better practice developmnets and ideas on the market..but farmers are not picking them up..bottom line ..PROFIT.!!

Can you answer that?..if you cant dont waste time argueing semantics with me. Moot this and moot that...Im interested in new approaches to help the suffering of animals produced for market for our consumption.

I look forward to your researched ie..googled answer in the morning..nite IQ. Wink

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