Australian Politics Forum - What culture do we want ?

Gavin

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #15 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:12pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:03pm:

Gavin - you have justified murder here.

Quote:

no it doesn't, but what did she expect?
if u pass off lies as being the truth, then u expect to get burned.

You are saying we should be subservient to muslims because otherwise we can "expect to get burned"

sprintcyclist, u obviously missed the part where i said "no it doesn't (justify murder)".
what i'm saying is if this lady was being being truthful about her experiences, then i have no problem.

but she lied, offended alot of people with her lies, and just added fuel to the fire in the whole immigration debate. tragic that the guy who made her film died, and that she has received death threats, but she had to expect it. i mean u spread a lie about someone, do u expect them to just accept it??

she should have just been truthful to begin with and none of these problems would have occurred.
funnily enough, she's made alot of money out of these lies, maybe because she's telling people what they want to hear, rather than what truely happened.

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« Last Edit: Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:23pm by Gavin »

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #16 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:55pm

Hi Gavin,
yes, I did read where you said "no, it doesnt." Then in the same sentence you blamed her.
In the next sentence you blamed her again.

Quote:

In 1992, fleeing an arranged marriage, she arrived in Holland where she worked first as a cleaner and then as a translator at a refugee centre in Rotterdam - an experience that marked her deeply, according to one friend interviewed by The Observer. A victim herself of female circumcision, Hirsi Ali was shocked by the male repression of immigrant women living in one of the most developed and tolerant societies in the world.

She studied political science at Leiden University and found a position in a leftwing think-tank. With such credentials, as well as her striking looks, she was well placed when the attacks of 11 September 2001 focused global attention on Islamic radicalism. Her self-appointed mission was to make the Dutch and Europeans aware of 'the repressive nature of Islam' and of the dangers of mass immigration, which led to an invitation from the Dutch Liberal party to join them and, very rapidly, to a seat in parliament.

The movie was never purported to be about her. It was made from her experiences as a translator.
It is what is happening to women forced into marriages under oppressive islam law.
The proof being, the film maker was murdered.

And your response is "She lied about her backgrouind so she deserved it. "

Quote:

Mohammed Bibi, the director, praised the fact that Hirsi Ali had 'started a discussion'. 'But she did it in a very rude way and she related everything - violence, female circumcision, repression - to religion where actually it is cultural,' he said.

Does Bibi think we are fools ? THAT religion IS the law , it IS the culture. Typical muslim deception

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Gavin

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #17 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 1:01pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:55pm:

Hi Gavin,
yes, I did read where you said "no, it doesnt." Then in the same sentence you blamed her.
In the next sentence you blamed her again.

all i'm saying is she should have been truthful and she wouldn't have had problems.

spreading lies only leads to trouble.

Quote:

The movie was never purported to be about her.

actually no, while she did work as a translator, her book and movie were mainly drawn from her own experiences. those experiences turned out to be fake, and something she made up.

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skeptic

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #18 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 2:27pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:55pm:

Does Bibi think we are fools ? THAT religion IS the law , it IS the culture. Typical muslim deception

interesting, i didn't think religion was considered to be a culture. if that were the case, then why is it different Islamic countries have different cultures? i'm pretty sure Indonesian culture is very different to Saudi Arabian culture, even though both are Islamic countries.

kind of like saying that Australian culture and German culture are exactly the same since they are both christian populated countries. that's absurd.

i think the point that Bibi guy was making was that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has taken Somalian/Kenyan cultural practices and blamed Islam for them. and u know what, after reading those articles Gavin posted up, why would anyone believe a word that comes out of her mouth? a proven liar isn't exactly a reliable source of information. i'm really surprised the news in Australia hasn't mentioned this at all.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #19 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 4:15pm

skeptic wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 2:27pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 12:55pm:

Does Bibi think we are fools ? THAT religion IS the law , it IS the culture. Typical muslim deception

interesting, i didn't think religion was considered to be a culture. if that were the case, then why is it different Islamic countries have different cultures? i'm pretty sure Indonesian culture is very different to Saudi Arabian culture, even though both are Islamic countries.

Yes, religion is a culture. Indonesia's culture is of course different from Saudi culture, but religious practices are largely the same/similar.

What elements of Indonesian culture are different to that of Saudi culture, Skeptic? Name them.

Quote:

kind of like saying that Australian culture and German culture are exactly the same since they are both christian populated countries. that's absurd.

In a LOT of ways German culture and Australian culture are similar, Skeptic. Think about it. Compare Australian culture to a Middle Eastern culture, and you'll find that our culture is more similar and compatible with that of Germany and most North European countries.

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i think the point that Bibi guy was making was that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has taken Somalian/Kenyan cultural practices and blamed Islam for them.

How do we know FOR SURE that what she 'lied' about didn't have elements of truth in them?

Quote:

and u know what, after reading those articles Gavin posted up, why would anyone believe a word that comes out of her mouth? a proven liar isn't exactly a reliable source of information. i'm really surprised the news in Australia hasn't mentioned this at all.

Fair enough. I don't think I'd trust her either. However, just because this one woman lied still doesn't mean that these things aren't happening.

She lied to get into Netherlands... fair enough. Does it mean that Muslim women don't go through what she claims is occuring? Absolutely not.

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skeptic

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #20 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 4:32pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 4:15pm:

Yes, religion is a culture. Indonesia's culture is of course different from Saudi culture, but religious practices are largely the same/similar.

What elements of Indonesian culture are different to that of Saudi culture, Skeptic? Name them.

i've travelled to Indonesia, but i haven't been to Saudi Arabia so i can't comment on what they have. but no two countries are exactly alike and each one has differences - be it different food, clothes, customs, etc. sure there might be some similiarities between the two and that's probably because of religion, but there are also differences as well.
like with the food example, try getting a dish of Nasi goreng over the Saudi Arabia. i reckon it would be impossible to find.

Quote:

In a LOT of ways German culture and Australian culture are similar, Skeptic. Think about it. Compare Australian culture to a Middle Eastern culture, and you'll find that our culture is more similar and compatible with that of Germany and most North European countries.

true, in a lot of ways, Australian culture and German culture are similiar.
but there are differences as well.

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How do we know FOR SURE that what she 'lied' about didn't have elements of truth in them?

because she admitted she lied, so it can't really be the truth now can it?

Quote:

Fair enough. I don't think I'd trust her either. However, just because this one woman lied still doesn't mean that these things aren't happening.

She lied to get into Netherlands... fair enough. Does it mean that Muslim women don't go through what she claims is occuring? Absolutely not.

Probably not, but she can't personalise the situation and say it happened to her.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #21 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 4:53pm

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but no two countries are exactly alike and each one has differences

Of course not... but some are more equal than others.

Quote:

like with the food example, try getting a dish of Nasi goreng over the Saudi Arabia. i reckon it would be impossible to find.

Mmm. Goreng. Yes, I am familiar with that. Very nice. Must be due to the buddhist influences in Indonesia before Islam wormed its way in and sucked the life out of the country leaving behind the only goreng. Tongue

Still though... Islam itself does affect their eating patterns.

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true, in a lot of ways, Australian culture and German culture are similiar.
but there are differences as well.

There are indeed differences. But the core cultural traits are still the same.

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because she admitted she lied, so it can't really be the truth now can it?

It depends on WHAT she admitted to lying about.

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Probably not, but she can't personalise the situation and say it happened to her.

Definitely not. IF she is lying about everything... and the only reason she said all that was to queue jump, then she should be deported.

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skeptic

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #22 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 5:01pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 4:53pm:

Mmm. Goreng. Yes, I am familiar with that. Very nice. Must be due to the buddhist influences in Indonesia before Islam wormed its way in and sucked the life out of the country leaving behind the only goreng. Tongue

yeah, but Islam didn't get rid of Nasi Goreng either so that portion of buddhist influence remained. hence, u still have Islamic countries that differ somewhat.

so islamic culture doesn't necessarily equal Indonesian culture.

i would think Somalian/Kenyan culture has the same variations, i.e. there are elements of African tribal practices that remained.

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Still though... Islam itself does affect their eating patterns.

unless it contains pork or alcohol.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #23 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 5:21pm

Quote:

yeah, but Islam didn't get rid of Nasi Goreng either so that portion of buddhist influence remained. hence, u still have Islamic countries that differ somewhat.

Yep.

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so islamic culture doesn't necessarily equal Indonesian culture.

No... but I'd imagine it would take up a huge chunk of it.

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i would think Somalian/Kenyan culture has the same variations, i.e. there are elements of African tribal practices that remained.

Agree.

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unless it contains pork or alcohol.

Yep.

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skeptic

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Re: What culture do we want ?
Reply #24 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 5:29pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 5:21pm:

Quote:

so islamic culture doesn't necessarily equal Indonesian culture.

No... but I'd imagine it would take up a huge chunk of it.

Quote:

i would think Somalian/Kenyan culture has the same variations, i.e. there are elements of African tribal practices that remained.

Agree.

so it's entirely possible that what this Ayaan Hirsi Ali person is preaching is African tribal culture practices, rather than religious ones.

i think that was the point that Bibi guy was trying to make, when he mentioned that she is blaming cultural practices on Islam.

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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: What culture do we want ? Reply #25 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 6:08pm Quote: Nasi Goreng Didnt he build the great wall of china to keep the rabbits out?
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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: What culture do we want ? Reply #26 - Jun 1^st, 2007 at 6:22pm Ausnat wrote on Jun 1^st, 2007 at 6:08pm: Quote: Nasi Goreng Didnt he build the great wall of china to keep the rabbits out? Haha. Well spotted.
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