I remember nationalism from high school history, being labelled as one of the causes of the two world wars. Depending on how you define it (or really, how you practice it), it can be a good or bad thing:

http://dict.aiedu.com/word/nationalism

1 : nationalism --> love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it (noun.attribute)   
Synonyms: patriotism, nationalism   
hypernym: loyalty   
hyponym: Americanism chauvinism jingoism superpatriotism ultranationalism   
2 : nationalism --> the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other (noun.cognition)   
Synonyms: nationalism   
antonym: multiculturalism internationalism   
hypernym: doctrine philosophy philosophical system school of thought ism   
3 : nationalism --> the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination (noun.feeling)   
Synonyms: nationalism   
hypernym: ambition aspiration dream   
4 : nationalism --> the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals (noun.cognition)   
Synonyms: nationalism   
antonym: internationalism   
hypernym: doctrine philosophy philosophical system school of thought ism 

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/with/keyword/nationalism/

“Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. ''Patriotism'' is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by ''patriotism'' I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare /never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”

Erich Fromm

“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”

Albert Einstein

“Patriotism is proud of a country's virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies; it also acknowledges the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with their own specific virtues. The pride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country's virtues and denies its deficiencies, while it is contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries. It wants to be, and proclaims itself to be, "the greatest," but greatness is not required of a country; only goodness is.”

Sydney J. Harris

“Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.”

George Orwell

“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”

Charles de Gaulle

“(Nationalism is) a set of beliefs taught to each generation in which the Motherland or the Fatherland is an object of veneration and becomes a burning cause for which one becomes willing to kill the children of other Motherlands or Fatherlands”

Howard Zinn

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Did you actually read any of that?

That's not what the Americans think. They tend to think that America is better than everyone else and that their own interests are more important than those of other nations. That is, if they even acknowledge the existence of other countries.

Are those Americans you met here in Australia?

The alternative is to be saddened by where you live and unwilling to do anything for it.

False dichotomoy. Those definitions and quotes I gave make a clear distinction between various forms of nationalism. What is generally called nationalism or patriotism, usually by those referring to themselves, goes beyond love for your country and willingness to sacrifice for it, to the sort of delusions of granduer that eventually create the need to defend your country. There is a difference between being willing to defend your country if the need arises, and wanting that need to arise.

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most Americans are good people I agree.

yes, thery are americans I have met in Aussie. They were only here for a short while so had not been aussified yet.  They love "The land of the fee and the home of the brave." They also liked Aussie.

Being a nationalist would probably ensure you are more aimed at improving that what you do not like in your country. eg in aussie, maybe helping aborigines more, the tidy aussie day.
Critisising anything is pointless unless backed up by actions.

It could be that a nationalist person is so disheartened with their own country they go to live somewhere that they are proud to call home.  eg they may immigrate to Aussie from russia.

Extract from David thomsons ''Europe since Napoleon''

Nationalism-

''A nation may be described as a community of people whose sense of belonging together derives from their belief that they have a common homeland and from experience of common traditions and historical development.''

So therefore, multiculturism is anti-nationalist and naturally prefers segregation.

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No, these people consider themselves expatriates- go to lakemba or auburn mosque and ask them, what nationality are you? The answer will be ''im lebanese'' or ''i belong to no nation but allah''.
when they do call themselves australian, its only because a white australian asked-, they were just being polite. Ask them of our history- they know very little. Try to teach them this and they take offence. I know this because i asked the questions.

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The middle easterns, asians, africans and spaniards do not share in our history. Only recent history and that has been one of crime and seperation.

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Thats not a worthy statement


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When do they ever adopt our ways? NEVER. and the ''beach'' is a pretty poor statement fd.

locutius - Did they mark you down for your spelling as well?

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Nice statement, sounds very similar to those of Muhammad (pbuh) on the sourge of nationalism.

"He is not one of us who calls for nationalism, or who fights for nationalism or who dies for nationalism." (Narrated by Abu Dawud)

"Leave it, it is rotten." (When asked about nationalism, Narrated by al-Bukhari)

"An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red raced man was not better than a black one except in piety. Mankind are all Adam's children and Adam was created out of clay." (Narrated by al-Bukhari)

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 28^th, 2007 at 10:12pm:
A powerful and great nation whose people have an ironic sense of insecurity as evidenced by Bush continually reminding Americans that they live in "the greatest nation on the face of the earth".

Just why do they need to be reminded (and in such emphatic style) by their President, I wonder?

When I travelled and lived overseas for a number of years, I always proclaimed that I lived in the best country in the world, for me. My American friends felt the same about the USA, my Croatian friends the same about Croatia, my Egyptian friends the same about Egypt, and so on. I don't think there's anything wrong with stating that fact, and saying one is proud of where they're from. I don't think Australians are any "better" than any other Nationality, but I do think Australia is the best country on earth for me.

it means no human being is better than another based on his/her race/colour, but only based on piety. The pious are better than the impious.

Ahh I see, you're assuming it means specifically a red-faced man is better than a black man???

In Classical Arabic there's no full stops, so the except clause belongs to the whole first part of the hadith, when translated, incorrect punctuation has been inctroduced that has confused that.

No need.

How about global warming, or a hole in the ozone layer?

It would be interesting to see a new, ugly form of humanism arise in response to an extraterrestrial threat.

I didn't know you had musicians in your family Phil.

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Hahaha, close. Actually the world population of Homo Sapiens dropped to something like 2000 people during the last Ice Age, all 6 billion of us are descended from one of those 2000. Check this out if you're interested:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/spencer_wells_is_building_a_family_tree_for_all_humanity.html

They are different.

oceanz wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2008 at 8:01pm:


I know that and i never said otherwise.
We all evolved differently due to climate, food and genes.
Some evolved more than others.
The full blooded Australian aborigine is the closest thing we'll get to the human in original condition.

The oldest yeah but didnt spend much time thinkin, did they.

pope urban 2 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2008 at 8:45pm:

Yes. To survive this country without ruining it takes quite a lot of thought.

DILLIGAF wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2008 at 4:59pm:



My understanding is that all three (in the photo) are modern humans. Genetically, physically and intellectually. They merely took a different cultural and technological track. These differences can be explained by different environment and different competative pressures that human groups face in different parts of the world.

locutius wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 8:47am:


You're right. Of course we're the same species.

jordan484 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 8:19am:


Really? they burnt away over a million square km's of bush into desert and arid scrub and caused the extinction of various large mammals and lizards.

locutius wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 8:47am:


Yes we are all modern humans, the only survivors of the human species. The others died out.
We are genetically the same but then again we have 98% the same genes as the Chimpanzee.

Intellectually? I dont think so mate.

jordan484 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 12:59pm:


You're right. That's my understanding too. There were some extinctions of flora associated with Aboriginal burning. The main effect of that was the change from a predominately Casuarina based forest to a predominately Eucalypt and Banksia based ecosystem. Eucalypts are much more tolerant of burning.

The megafaunal extinctions were primarily caused by changes in climate following the last Ice Age. There was obviously some evidence of hunting, but Aboriginal populations were relatively low during this period. In effect, there are no clear-cut cases of vertebrate extinction due to to the Aborigines before the Europeans arrived.

However there is a long list of extinctions since European settlement, mainly due to feral cats, dogs, goats, foxes  and rats.

DILLIGAF wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 12:42pm:


I don't know - you may not see $50 notes too often Phil, but the next time you do, take a closer look. David Unaipon despite all the odds was a great mathematician and inventor, and apart from anticipating the design of the helicopter, he became the first Aboriginal writer to be published.

- And all this just after Federation.

You are wrong Phil. Check the link if you have forgotten.

DILLIGAF wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 3:51pm:


Are we talking about every single race on the face of the planet now? I mean humanity as a whole?

easel wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 5:52am:


Abo's and Africans.
And thinking about it now, the only reason any of these dark people can have exceptional intelligence is because we showed them the way.
It was not their own initiative.

Genius is far and few between in every race.

And in regards to dark people having exceptional intelligence because we showed them the way, well you are born with intelligence, it is knowledge that is taught.

Can we take up the race and IQ issue in the thread about race and IQ please?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1181870633

I'm interested in people's views on nationalism.

It's not a trivial example. Harry Potter was all about the evils of racism and nationalism. It's like Hitler for kids.

While Europe was in the middle of a renaissance and the world was being explored, some were still wiping their arse with a leaf. At least Africans had mud huts, the early Australians couldnt even manage that, if it rained and their was no cave, you got wet.

easel wrote on Sep 4^th, 2008 at 8:35am:

Yeah, ok, let's look far far back in the history, and see who showed the way to 'you' in the first place, as a kick start 

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oh well..youve convinced me.

Let us not forget the Abyssinians, another great African civilisation, and also one of the first nations to embrace Christianity, back when the heathen germanics were still jumping up and down around fires chanting to Gott.

Now look at them today after only a couple of centuries of Western influence, they've been 'shown the way' alright, the way to absolute starvation and deprivation, being known internationally for their poverty and death due to hunger.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 8:22am:


I've been everywhere man