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What is nationalism? (Read 25323 times)
freediver
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What is nationalism?
May 28th, 2007 at 5:40pm
 
I remember nationalism from high school history, being labelled as one of the causes of the two world wars. Depending on how you define it (or really, how you practice it), it can be a good or bad thing:

http://dict.aiedu.com/word/nationalism

1 : nationalism --> love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it (noun.attribute)   
Synonyms: patriotism, nationalism   
hypernym: loyalty   
hyponym: Americanism chauvinism jingoism superpatriotism ultranationalism   
2 : nationalism --> the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other (noun.cognition)   
Synonyms: nationalism   
antonym: multiculturalism internationalism   
hypernym: doctrine philosophy philosophical system school of thought ism   
3 : nationalism --> the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination (noun.feeling)   
Synonyms: nationalism   
hypernym: ambition aspiration dream   
4 : nationalism --> the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals (noun.cognition)   
Synonyms: nationalism   
antonym: internationalism   
hypernym: doctrine philosophy philosophical system school of thought ism 

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/with/keyword/nationalism/

“Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. ''Patriotism'' is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by ''patriotism'' I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare /never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”

Erich Fromm

“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”

Albert Einstein

“Patriotism is proud of a country's virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies; it also acknowledges the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with their own specific virtues. The pride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country's virtues and denies its deficiencies, while it is contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries. It wants to be, and proclaims itself to be, "the greatest," but greatness is not required of a country; only goodness is.”

Sydney J. Harris

“Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.”

George Orwell

“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”

Charles de Gaulle

“(Nationalism is) a set of beliefs taught to each generation in which the Motherland or the Fatherland is an object of veneration and becomes a burning cause for which one becomes willing to kill the children of other Motherlands or Fatherlands”

Howard Zinn
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oceans_blue
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #1 - May 28th, 2007 at 7:22pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2007 at 5:40pm:
I remember nationalism from high school history, being labelled as one of the causes of the two world wars. Depending on how you define it (or really, how you practice it), it can be a good or bad thing:

http://dict.aiedu.com/word/nationalism

1 : nationalism --> love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it (noun.attribute)  
Synonyms: patriotism, nationalism  
hypernym: loyalty  
hyponym: Americanism chauvinism jingoism superpatriotism ultranationalism  
2 : nationalism --> the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other (noun.cognition)  
Synonyms: nationalism  
antonym: multiculturalism internationalism  
hypernym: doctrine philosophy philosophical system school of thought ism  
3 : nationalism --> the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination (noun.feeling)  
Synonyms: nationalism  
hypernym: ambition aspiration dream  
4 : nationalism --> the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals (noun.cognition)  
Synonyms: nationalism  
antonym: internationalism  
hypernym: doctrine philosophy philosophical system school of thought ism  

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/with/keyword/nationalism/

“Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. ''Patriotism'' is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by ''patriotism'' I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare /never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”

Erich Fromm

“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”

Albert Einstein

“Patriotism is proud of a country's virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies; it also acknowledges the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with their own specific virtues. The pride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country's virtues and denies its deficiencies, while it is contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries. It wants to be, and proclaims itself to be, "the greatest," but greatness is not required of a country; only goodness is.”

Sydney J. Harris

“Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.”

George Orwell

“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”

Charles de Gaulle

“(Nationalism is) a set of beliefs taught to each generation in which the Motherland or the Fatherland is an object of veneration and becomes a burning cause for which one becomes willing to kill the children of other Motherlands or Fatherlands”

Howard Zinn


Nationalism is good then Smiley
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IQSRLOW
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #2 - May 28th, 2007 at 8:52pm
 
Quote:
Nationalism is good then Smiley


Did you actually read any of that?
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #3 - May 28th, 2007 at 10:12pm
 
One thing I admire about americans is their patriotism/nationalism.
I think it reflects entirely on what a  person thinks of their own country.
It is not saying all other countries are worse, it is just saying my one is good.
It is being proud if being a citizen of that country and willing to maintain it or even improve it.
Wanting to be a contributer to it.

eg, Aussie is a great place to live.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #4 - May 29th, 2007 at 10:18am
 
That's not what the Americans think. They tend to think that America is better than everyone else and that their own interests are more important than those of other nations. That is, if they even acknowledge the existence of other countries.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #5 - May 29th, 2007 at 1:36pm
 
yes, natinalism must be a good thing.
The alternative is to be saddened by where you live and unwilling to do anything for it.
Or be neutral not not care one way or another. Which is a real nothing.


All the americans I have met have been fine poeple.  I don't go by the media or current fervour of USAbashing. The ones I have met and worked with would assimilate immediately into the aussie culture.  They love it here too, they love freedom of speech. That is really their big value.
They are gregarous, honest, straight talkers.  Darned good folk.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #6 - May 29th, 2007 at 1:44pm
 
Are those Americans you met here in Australia?

The alternative is to be saddened by where you live and unwilling to do anything for it.

False dichotomoy. Those definitions and quotes I gave make a clear distinction between various forms of nationalism. What is generally called nationalism or patriotism, usually by those referring to themselves, goes beyond love for your country and willingness to sacrifice for it, to the sort of delusions of granduer that eventually create the need to defend your country. There is a difference between being willing to defend your country if the need arises, and wanting that need to arise.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #7 - May 29th, 2007 at 2:42pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on May 29th, 2007 at 1:36pm:
yes, natinalism must be a good thing.
The alternative is to be saddened by where you live and unwilling to do anything for it.
Or be neutral not not care one way or another. Which is a real nothing.


All the americans I have met have been fine poeple.  I don't go by the media or current fervour of USAbashing. The ones I have met and worked with would assimilate immediately into the aussie culture.  They love it here too, they love freedom of speech. That is really their big value.
They are gregarous, honest, straight talkers.  Darned good folk.



Yes thanks Sprint,

Thats what I thought , Nationalism suggests a sense of pride in ones country and that IS a good thing.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #8 - May 29th, 2007 at 2:43pm
 
Quote:
Sprintcyclist wrote on May 29th, 2007 at 1:36pm:
yes, natinalism must be a good thing.
The alternative is to be saddened by where you live and unwilling to do anything for it.
Or be neutral not not care one way or another. Which is a real nothing.


All the americans I have met have been fine poeple.  I don't go by the media or current fervour of USAbashing. The ones I have met and worked with would assimilate immediately into the aussie culture.  They love it here too, they love freedom of speech. That is really their big value.
They are gregarous, honest, straight talkers.  Darned good folk.



Yes thanks Sprint,

Thats what I thought , Nationalism suggests a sense of pride in ones country and that IS a good thing.


most Americans are good people I agree. Wink
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #9 - May 29th, 2007 at 2:45pm
 
What if you aren't proud of your country? Should you take pride in your country regardless of whether it deserves it? Should pride prevent you from criticising your country? How can pride manifest itself in a meaningful way that is also beneficial?
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #10 - May 29th, 2007 at 3:44pm
 
yes, thery are americans I have met in Aussie. They were only here for a short while so had not been aussified yet.  They love "The land of the fee and the home of the brave." They also liked Aussie.

Being a nationalist would probably ensure you are more aimed at improving that what you do not like in your country. eg in aussie, maybe helping aborigines more, the tidy aussie day.
Critisising anything is pointless unless backed up by actions.

It could be that a nationalist person is so disheartened with their own country they go to live somewhere that they are proud to call home.  eg they may immigrate to Aussie from russia.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #11 - May 29th, 2007 at 3:48pm
 
Russia has it's own nationalists. They were on the news beating up gay people. The whole point of nationalism is that it downgrades the views of other countries.

Critisising anything is pointless unless backed up by actions.  

Criticism is an action in itself, and for many political problems that are beyond the scope of individual action it is about all you can do, apart from suggesting a better alternative of course. For some reason I tend to associate nationalism with strong criticism of minority groups, including aboriginies, but with the absense of suggestions for improvement.

Who else associates nationalism with 'right wing' views?
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #12 - May 29th, 2007 at 6:22pm
 
Extract from David thomsons ''Europe since Napoleon''

Nationalism-

''A nation may be described as a community of people whose sense of belonging together derives from their belief that they have a common homeland and from experience of common traditions and historical development.''

So therefore, multiculturism is anti-nationalist and naturally prefers segregation.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #13 - May 29th, 2007 at 6:47pm
 
That definition of a nation is either wrong or you misinterpretted it. A multicultural community consisting of immigrants can have a common homeland (eg Australia, America), a common recent history (the experience of immigration) and a new set of recently aquired traditions (eg the beach). If you define a nation to exclude multicultural communities then of course you can conclude that nationalism and multiculturalism are mutually exclusive, but it is circular reasoning.
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Re: What is nationalism?
Reply #14 - May 29th, 2007 at 8:26pm
 
Quote:
A multicultural community consisting of immigrants can have a common homeland (eg Australia, America),


No, these people consider themselves expatriates- go to lakemba or auburn mosque and ask them, what nationality are you? The answer will be ''im lebanese'' or ''i belong to no nation but allah''.
when they do call themselves australian, its only because a white australian asked-, they were just being polite. Ask them of our history- they know very little. Try to teach them this and they take offence. I know this because i asked the questions.

Quote:
a common recent history


The middle easterns, asians, africans and spaniards do not share in our history. Only recent history and that has been one of crime and seperation.

Quote:
(the experience of immigration)


Thats not a worthy statement


Quote:
and a new set of recently aquired traditions (eg the beach).


When do they ever adopt our ways? NEVER. and the ''beach'' is a pretty poor statement fd.

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