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Unions should not be politically aligned (Read 4848 times)
Sprintcyclist
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Unions should not be politically aligned
May 9th, 2007 at 10:05am
 
It has led them to make political decisions, appoint politically minded leaders.

They should be concerned with the workers.
Unions have lost the connection they have with workers.  Hence their gradual decline
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #1 - May 9th, 2007 at 10:08am
 
What they do is political in nature. They represent workers. If they kept away from politics they would be far worse off.
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #2 - May 10th, 2007 at 12:56am
 
Unions not politically alligned?  Shocked What the?
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #3 - May 10th, 2007 at 11:02am
 
If unions were genuinely many problems should not exist.

The unions are not customer related. They have not contacted me for the 5 - 8 or so years I have been in this union. What business would not do that to a customer ?

Issues such as  water shortages, power issues, environment should have all been raised by unions under their own steam.
Workers on the floor realise what is hapening.
SEQEB workers have been aware for many years the demand is rising, but supply unchanged.
Water workers measure the usage of water. They ARE the experts.

The union has moved toward a political front and away from their real strength.
The members do not contact unions with their concerns because the unions are inept, do not listen do not act.

The unions demise is solely due to the inaction of unions.
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2007 at 11:13am
 
As I see it, unions are there to protect the employment conditions of members. They also provide some good bulk buy discount services (banking, super, car buying etc). Stepping into the broader political debates about water supply etc is a bit beyond their scope and most workers would not be happy about paying them to get involved. Every employee will agree on protecting their own conditions and getting freebies, but not the broader issues.

Someone who works for a water or power company is not necessarily better informed. If the employees have access to aggregated data then the general public will have access to it also. The only difference is they may pay more attention.
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2007 at 2:06pm
 
We would be slaves today if we hadn't had unions :

1791 The first organised industrial action is recorded, when in Sydney convicts demand daily instead of weekly rations.
1822 James Straiter, a convict shepherd, is sentenced to five hundred lashes, one month solitary confinement on bread and water, and five years' penal servitude for "inciting his Masters' servants to combine for the purposes of obliging him to raise the wages and increase their rations."
1824 Coopers use pickets for the first time in a strike action. They are eventually arrested and tried.
1829 Typographers, supported by carpenters, successfully strike for payment in sterling, against currency reform which threatened the value of wages.
1840 The Society of Compositors campaigns to restrict the numbers of apprentices. The government uses convict compositors as strike breakers.
1854 Police and soldiers attack miners in the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat. Thirty miners and five soldiers are killed in the conflict. Peter Lalor and the other leaders are arrested and tried but found not guilty. Within six years the miners have won all their demands.
1855 Following the success of strike action by a small number of Sydney stonemasons, Melbourne stonemasons and their employers agree on an eight-hour day. On the 21 April 1856, when the agreement comes into effect, two contractors refuse to abide by the new conditions, and a day-long strike takes place. By the end of the day, however, the contractors fall into line. This development paves the way for all building workers in Melbourne to gain the forty-eight-hour week.
1861 Ironworkers at P.N. Russell & Company go on strike in response to a ten percent wage cut, joined a week later by moulders who were refused overtime rates beyond the eight-hour day. Though the ironworkers are willing to accept the cut in exchange for a twenty percent cut in hours, defence against legal action saps their strike-pay fund, and workers are found to replace them. Eventually they return to work after seven months on strike.
1874 Victoria's first Factory Act is passed. However, it only provides regulation of conditions in factories with more than ten employees in "sweated" trades.
In Sydney, two thousand ironworkers go on strike over the threat of the discontinuation of the "two-meal break" system.


The list goes on and on - up to 2001 and we can thank the unions for the reasonable hours and pay we get today.

http://www.atua.org.au/atua_timeline.htm
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2007 at 2:49pm
 
Actually we would probably have roughly the same pay without unions. While it appears in the short term that the tradeoff is between employee salary/conditions and company profits, in the long term the tradeoff is really between minimum conditions and unemployment levels and economic growth. You could even argue that our conditions would be better today if it weren't for the unions.
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #7 - May 11th, 2007 at 10:51am
 
mantras right - YET again ! 
Unions have helped most people significantly for a very long period. 
Some employers would grind everything they can out of every employee every day.
Given the free market, other employers HAVE to compete on that basis.

If the unions truly were a spokesperson for the workers, our current problem would be aired publically and action would be demanded form the politicians.
As they are, anything they say is seen as support for labour. ie political.
Hence they have lost their relevance among their own customers.
Most workers are not interested in politics, water workers can see the issues with water, but have no forum to speak from.
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #8 - May 11th, 2007 at 10:56am
 
Given the free market, other employers HAVE to compete on that basis.

So employers have to treat their employees badly in order to compete for the best employees?
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #9 - May 11th, 2007 at 12:57pm
 
For most jobs, the highly intelligent creative gifted employee is unrequired.
All is needed is a labourer. Of which there are many.


The lower skilled workers are less able to "defend" for themselves.
If one employee grinds his employees down savagely in a low skilled industry/farm, other employees have to compete against his lower labour costs.
Sort of like child slave labour in the world now.
They are preferred to using mules as they are cheaper.


When do you think I will overtake Donald in number of postings ?  Smiley
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #10 - May 12th, 2007 at 1:29am
 
Quote:
When do you think I will overtake Donald in number of postings ?


The real question should be... when will Donald pass freedivers mark?
.
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Ten years?
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Re: Unions should not be politically aligned
Reply #11 - May 12th, 2007 at 11:11am
 
For most jobs, the highly intelligent creative gifted employee is unrequired.
All is needed is a labourer. Of which there are many.


Even the market for labourers is competitive. Perhaps more so. A skilled employee has far fewer options where his skills are valued and makes a far bigger investment in each place of work. A KFC pattie flipper can just walk across the road to McDonalds.

If one employee grinds his employees down savagely in a low skilled industry/farm, other employees have to compete against his lower labour costs.

Or, just poach his best employees. Treating your employees savagely doesn't actually make you more money or save labour costs. Other employers will compete by treating their workers better.
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