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Poll Poll
Question: Do you support multiculturalism?

Yes. Diversity leads to unity and enrichment.    
  53 (42.7%)
No. How can disunity lead to unity?    
  53 (42.7%)
Undecided.    
  8 (6.5%)
Other.    
  10 (8.1%)




Total votes: 124
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Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why? (Read 110271 times)
Soren
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #360 - Oct 31st, 2012 at 9:47pm
 
Bowen wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 7:38pm:
When I say "I am a Chinese", It's about race just like you say "I am an Anglo-Saxon".

When I said "I am an Australian", It's about my citizenship. It's same to you say "I am an Australian"



'Australian-ness' is not just a legal category, even though it is that too.  No Australian was an 'Australian citizen' before 1969.

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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #361 - Oct 31st, 2012 at 10:13pm
 
1969? Australia was still under the sinful "White Australia Policy". To be honest I can not totally understand why some one believe the skin color make difference. And it was the shame of Australia.

Fortunately, It's 2012 today. "Australian-ness" is changing while more and more people come to Australia with different cultures. Different cultures are mixing all over the world.



Soren wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 9:47pm:
Bowen wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 7:38pm:
When I say "I am a Chinese", It's about race just like you say "I am an Anglo-Saxon".

When I said "I am an Australian", It's about my citizenship. It's same to you say "I am an Australian"



'Australian-ness' is not just a legal category, even though it is that too.  No Australian was an 'Australian citizen' before 1969.

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Quantum
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #362 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am
 
Bowen wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 10:13pm:
1969? Australia was still under the sinful "White Australia Policy". To be honest I can not totally understand why some one believe the skin color make difference. And it was the shame of Australia.

Fortunately, It's 2012 today. "Australian-ness" is changing while more and more people come to Australia with different cultures. Different cultures are mixing all over the world.



Soren wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 9:47pm:
Bowen wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 7:38pm:
When I say "I am a Chinese", It's about race just like you say "I am an Anglo-Saxon".

When I said "I am an Australian", It's about my citizenship. It's same to you say "I am an Australian"



'Australian-ness' is not just a legal category, even though it is that too.  No Australian was an 'Australian citizen' before 1969.



Actually different cultures are mixing in what was white nations. All the immigrants can still go back to their native countries for a holiday in their own culture. The rest of us have to have our nations destroyed to make the world a better place for the immigrants.

You have gone from thread to thread talking about democratic rights, and now as a citizen you can change Australian laws like the rest of us. That being the case, you will have to live with the issue that as citizens we too have the right to say "leave things the way they were". It is not racist, it is our right.

Many of us don't want multiculturalism. He want what was once our mono Australian culture. Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. Where we didn't need laws to explain to people what they can't do, as it was once called common sense. Where people actually lined up and said "please" , "thank you", and "after you", and knew to give the old timer or pregnant lady a seat on the bus.

Multiculturalism has turned our streets and cities into lonely, crime filled zoos, all because the immigrants buggered up their own countries. The immigrants want respect for their culture, but refuse to acknowledge that Australia had a culture as well. Why should respect be shown to the cultures of people who refuse to respect the culture of those who's families grew up here? If they won't even learn the language of the country then they clearly don't give a 5hit about the people living here.
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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #363 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:15am
 
If you go to China, you will find there are so many elements from western world. Look at Beijing and Shanghai. Do you think they are classical Chinese Cities? No, they are modern western cities at least for the structure and views. There are at least 23 millions registered Christians in China. More than the number of Christians are not registered.

The English letters showed at the public area of Chinese cities are far more than the Chinese letters in Australia. Every Chinese children learn English from primary school to university.

The main problem is what you said is because of your ignorance. Any conclusion should be based on the truth not your own imagine.

Australia is an immigrant Country. Your forefather was immigrant too. You always forget this important point. Everyone have rights to immigrate to Australia as you no matter their race or culture. Australia is not only your country.

When you think Australia is a white country, you are an obvious racist already.


Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am:
Actually different cultures are mixing in what was white nations. All the immigrants can still go back to their native countries for a holiday in their own culture. The rest of us have to have our nations destroyed to make the world a better place for the immigrants.

You have gone from thread to thread talking about democratic rights, and now as a citizen you can change Australian laws like the rest of us. That being the case, you will have to live with the issue that as citizens we too have the right to say "leave things the way they were". It is not racist, it is our right.

Many of us don't want multiculturalism. He want what was once our mono Australian culture. Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. Where we didn't need laws to explain to people what they can't do, as it was once called common sense. Where people actually lined up and said "please" , "thank you", and "after you", and knew to give the old timer or pregnant lady a seat on the bus.

Multiculturalism has turned our streets and cities into lonely, crime filled zoos, all because the immigrants buggered up their own countries. The immigrants want respect for their culture, but refuse to acknowledge that Australia had a culture as well. Why should respect be shown to the cultures of people who refuse to respect the culture of those who's families grew up here? If they won't even learn the language of the country then they clearly don't give a 5hit about the people living here.
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« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:40am by Bowen »  
 
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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #364 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:27am
 
As the new project of Fed government, to learn a secondary language.

Every Chinese children learn English. Why not you learn some Chinese?

Many western people in China do not understand Chinese especially 10 years ago.

Chinese do not hesitate to communicate with them in English on the road side in China.

Why not you can do the similar thing?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am:
Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. 

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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #365 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:35am
 
The world is changing. No one can stop it.

The people in China can not stop it. The people in Australia can not stop it too.

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Quantum
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #366 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:40am
 
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:15am:
If you go to China, you will find there are so many elements from western world. Look at Beijing and Shanghai. Do you think they are classical Chinese Cities? No, they are modern western cities at least for the structure and views. There are at least 23 millions registered Christians in China. More than the number of Christians are not registered.


But these are Chinese people. This is not 23 million English men who are living in china as Christians. Christianity as been in china for nearly 2000 years. This is not something that was brought in by multiculturalism, but something that was brought back to china by the Chinese themselves. The reason for the high amount of unregistered Christians is because they are so heavily persecuted by the government. Real multiculturalism there...

Quote:
The English letters showed at the public area of Chinese cities are far more than the Chinese letters in Australia. Every Chinese children learn English from primary school to university.

The main problem is what you said is because of your ignorance. Any conclusion should be based on the truth not your own imagine.


China is not multicultural, no matter how many Toyota or Coke signs and put up in the main cities. The locals sure as hell ain't welcoming to westerns either outside of the main tourist areas. Neither are a lot of other Asians.

Quote:
Australia is an immigrant Country. Your forefather was immigrant too. You always forget this important point. Everyone have rights to immigrate to Australia as you. Australia is not only your country.

When you think Australia is a white country, you are an obvious racist already.


Yes but those forefathers built this country. They didn't take over cities built by the aboriginals.

Do you think of china as an Asian country? As a Chinese country? Let's see your home country get overrun by immigrants who don't respect the laws and customers of your own country, and then lets see how racist you are.

I will never understand immigrants who take such pride and honour in their homeland. Who will still refer to themselves as natives of their homeland (eg, "Chinese Australian citizen". Not just "Australian") but expect the people living here to not care about their national identity.
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Quantum
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #367 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:43am
 
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:27am:
As the new project of Fed government, to learn a secondary language.

Every Chinese children learn English. Why not you learn some Chinese?

Many western people in China do not understand Chinese especially 10 years ago.

Chinese do not hesitate to communicate with them in English on the road side in China.

Why not you can do the similar thing?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am:
Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. 



When your Chinese city's are 50% Anglos speaking English your point will have some weight. Until then it nothing like what is happening here.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #368 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:53am
 
No I do not.

Why? Because it has failed spectacularly in my country.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #369 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 9:00am
 
1, Chinese is the "Aborigines" in China for thousands of year. You always ignore the truth that most of people except Aborigines are immigrant in Australia. Both you and me. When you said "China is Chinese's country". The corresponding conclusion is "Australia is Aborigines' country".

2, Chinese is not a pure nation but a mix of many nations. The culture of Chinese is the mix of multiple-cultures in the past thousands years. Do you know there are Jew living in China hundreds years ago? Because Chinese never have segregation. Most of them have yellow skin and black eyes today. but their pedigree can track to their Jew forefather.

3, China allow any religions.

I never said I agree with the immigrants who do not respect the law of Australia. If what you against is breaking law, is violence. I will be with you. However, you can not extend to the culture difference.

As an immigrant, I respect the law but I do not follow the culture in your home.




Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:40am:
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:15am:
If you go to China, you will find there are so many elements from western world. Look at Beijing and Shanghai. Do you think they are classical Chinese Cities? No, they are modern western cities at least for the structure and views. There are at least 23 millions registered Christians in China. More than the number of Christians are not registered.


But these are Chinese people. This is not 23 million English men who are living in china as Christians. Christianity as been in china for nearly 2000 years. This is not something that was brought in by multiculturalism, but something that was brought back to china by the Chinese themselves. The reason for the high amount of unregistered Christians is because they are so heavily persecuted by the government. Real multiculturalism there...

Quote:
The English letters showed at the public area of Chinese cities are far more than the Chinese letters in Australia. Every Chinese children learn English from primary school to university.

The main problem is what you said is because of your ignorance. Any conclusion should be based on the truth not your own imagine.


China is not multicultural, no matter how many Toyota or Coke signs and put up in the main cities. The locals sure as hell ain't welcoming to westerns either outside of the main tourist areas. Neither are a lot of other Asians.

Quote:
Australia is an immigrant Country. Your forefather was immigrant too. You always forget this important point. Everyone have rights to immigrate to Australia as you. Australia is not only your country.

When you think Australia is a white country, you are an obvious racist already.


Yes but those forefathers built this country. They didn't take over cities built by the aboriginals.

Do you think of china as an Asian country? As a Chinese country? Let's see your home country get overrun by immigrants who don't respect the laws and customers of your own country, and then lets see how racist you are.

I will never understand immigrants who take such pride and honour in their homeland. Who will still refer to themselves as natives of their homeland (eg, "Chinese Australian citizen". Not just "Australian") but expect the people living here to not care about their national identity.
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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #370 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 9:02am
 
Should I tell you again and again?

Australia is an immigrant Country.

Both you and me are immigrants.

Am I clear?

This is Australia not England.

Do you know the difference?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:43am:
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:27am:
As the new project of Fed government, to learn a secondary language.

Every Chinese children learn English. Why not you learn some Chinese?

Many western people in China do not understand Chinese especially 10 years ago.

Chinese do not hesitate to communicate with them in English on the road side in China.

Why not you can do the similar thing?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am:
Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. 



When your Chinese city's are 50% Anglos speaking English your point will have some weight. Until then it nothing like what is happening here.

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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #371 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 9:46am
 
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 9:02am:
Should I tell you again and again?

Australia is an immigrant Country.

Both you and me are immigrants.

Am I clear?

This is Australia not England.

Do you know the difference?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:43am:
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:27am:
As the new project of Fed government, to learn a secondary language.

Every Chinese children learn English. Why not you learn some Chinese?

Many western people in China do not understand Chinese especially 10 years ago.

Chinese do not hesitate to communicate with them in English on the road side in China.

Why not you can do the similar thing?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am:
Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. 



When your Chinese city's are 50% Anglos speaking English your point will have some weight. Until then it nothing like what is happening here.



Negatively stereotyping whites is racism. To claim the white Australia policy was bad is still a form of racism.
Also, if we are to believe the "out of Africa" theory, everyone except those in the Sub-Sahara region of Africa is an immigrant. People have been moving about for thousands of years, to single out Australia as just a nation of immigrants while most other countries can be classed as Aboriginal is to warp history. Even the Australian Aboriginal migrated here at some stage. For some reason, some people want to only class immigration as something that is 224 years old. Anyone who wants to think deeper about the issue can see the prejudices that lie in claiming immigration is only 224 years old. Why would they stop it there? Because of the prejudice against British and white people in general. Please do not try and claim you're above racism and judgement when it is clearly coming through that you have prejudices against whites.

Bowen, mate, if you want to live here, no worries. You're an engineer or scientist apparently, so you should be able to contribute well. If you concentrate on adding to this country within that sphere and not badger Australians on some racism charge, then you'll be accepted here no problem.
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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #372 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:46am
 
I am not against white. I even do not think it's a problem that white or yellow.

I never suggest a "Yellow Australia Policy" or "Red Australia Policy". I am just against the guys who believe Australia only belongs to "white".

No one is badgered to be racism. And racism can not solve any problem but create more problems. I think the main problem is how to avoid violence in Australia no matter from which side. And the only method is the law not racism. When people is living together in peace. It doesn't matter the difference of cultures.

I will keep contributing to Australia. And I expect the deserved respect to my culture (Actually my own culture is mixed by Chinese classical culture and western culture.) equally at the same time.

You look everybody as immigrants, It's also a good idea. While everybody are immigrants, there is no reason to say, Australia is mine or yours. Australia is ours. Australia belongs to everybody living here in law. That's why I said my value is a part of Australian value.






Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 9:46am:
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 9:02am:
Should I tell you again and again?

Australia is an immigrant Country.

Both you and me are immigrants.

Am I clear?

This is Australia not England.

Do you know the difference?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:43am:
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:27am:
As the new project of Fed government, to learn a secondary language.

Every Chinese children learn English. Why not you learn some Chinese?

Many western people in China do not understand Chinese especially 10 years ago.

Chinese do not hesitate to communicate with them in English on the road side in China.

Why not you can do the similar thing?

Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 7:54am:
Where we could talk to the stranger in the street and not only did he know English (or to be more correct, he spoke bloody Australian), but also understood what was being said as in the names and things being talking about. 



When your Chinese city's are 50% Anglos speaking English your point will have some weight. Until then it nothing like what is happening here.



Negatively stereotyping whites is racism. To claim the white Australia policy was bad is still a form of racism.
Also, if we are to believe the "out of Africa" theory, everyone except those in the Sub-Sahara region of Africa is an immigrant. People have been moving about for thousands of years, to single out Australia as just a nation of immigrants while most other countries can be classed as Aboriginal is to warp history. Even the Australian Aboriginal migrated here at some stage. For some reason, some people want to only class immigration as something that is 224 years old. Anyone who wants to think deeper about the issue can see the prejudices that lie in claiming immigration is only 224 years old. Why would they stop it there? Because of the prejudice against British and white people in general. Please do not try and claim you're above racism and judgement when it is clearly coming through that you have prejudices against whites.

Bowen, mate, if you want to live here, no worries. You're an engineer or scientist apparently, so you should be able to contribute well. If you concentrate on adding to this country within that sphere and not badger Australians on some racism charge, then you'll be accepted here no problem.
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Quantum
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #373 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 11:34am
 
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:46am:
I will keep contributing to Australia. And I expect the deserved respect to my culture (Actually my own culture is mixed by Chinese classical culture and western culture.) equally at the same time.


This is the problem. "Deserved respect" mentality. You want your Chinese culture respected, but you have no respect for Australian Culture. In fact, most of your arguments so far have been basically against the idea of Australian Culture altogether. You have consistently argued that Australia is just an immigration nation with many cultures, and that there is nothing that is distinctively Australian. However, some of us remember this place before the 21 century, and can see the circular reasoning happening here. Your entire argument is that now that there is enough immigrants here who haven't assimilated to Australian culture, there is therefore now no Australian culture to assimilate to but just a pot of different cultures. Bullshit. There is an Australian culture, whether you acknowledge it or not.         
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Bowen
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #374 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 11:39am
 
Do you have any evidence that I do not respect your culture?  While you can not use your own culture to replace "Australia culture".

What did I do like you? Did I ask you to back to England like you asked me? Am I against to learn English?

The truth is I respect to your culture but you do not respect my culture at the same time.

And the biggest problem is you attempt to use your own culture to replace "Australia culture" while you culture is only a part of "Australia culture".


Quantum wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 11:34am:
Bowen wrote on Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:46am:
I will keep contributing to Australia. And I expect the deserved respect to my culture (Actually my own culture is mixed by Chinese classical culture and western culture.) equally at the same time.


This is the problem. "Deserved respect" mentality. You want your Chinese culture respected, but you have no respect for Australian Culture. In fact, most of your arguments so far have been basically against the idea of Australian Culture altogether. You have consistently argued that Australia is just an immigration nation with many cultures, and that there is nothing that is distinctively Australian. However, some of us remember this place before the 21 century, and can see the circular reasoning happening here. Your entire argument is that now that there is enough immigrants here who haven't assimilated to Australian culture, there is therefore now no Australian culture to assimilate to but just a pot of different cultures. Bullshit. There is an Australian culture, whether you acknowledge it or not.         
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