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Poll Poll
Question: Do you support multiculturalism?

Yes. Diversity leads to unity and enrichment.    
  53 (42.7%)
No. How can disunity lead to unity?    
  53 (42.7%)
Undecided.    
  8 (6.5%)
Other.    
  10 (8.1%)




Total votes: 124
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Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why? (Read 109974 times)
gizmo_2655
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #285 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:38am
 
... wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:29am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:17am:
... wrote on Nov 29th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
Bob Miller wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 9:31pm:
Weighing its Pros and Cons, I am also for multi-culturalism.




You must really like foreign cuisine.  


Well, I like foreign cuisine......and I quite like a lot of foreign born people and their Australian born children too....

I've found that a large number of immigrants are friendly, and go out of their way to learn about our customs and culture....


Of course you like foreign cuisine - how could anyone with a straight face say they don't like 'foreign' food?  

But of course you will be aware that a policy of multiculturalism is not a pre-requisite for foreigners or foreign expertise to enter these shores.  The problem is that the issue is (intentionally) framed  wrong.  It's not like the only alternative to multiculturalism is having a 100% monocultural/monoracial society.  Migrants of all colours are free to come, but they are encouraged to assimilate ie "go out of their way to learn about our customs and culture" - exactly like the greeks, italians, vietnamese that multicult-boosters use to bolster their case were. 

So what would you rather - a collection of tribes, or a coherent, unified culture, whoever it may comprise of?  THAT is the real underlying question.


But that's what multiculturalism IS...encouraging intergration...
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #286 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:44am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:38am:
... wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:29am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:17am:
... wrote on Nov 29th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
Bob Miller wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 9:31pm:
Weighing its Pros and Cons, I am also for multi-culturalism.




You must really like foreign cuisine.  


Well, I like foreign cuisine......and I quite like a lot of foreign born people and their Australian born children too....

I've found that a large number of immigrants are friendly, and go out of their way to learn about our customs and culture....


Of course you like foreign cuisine - how could anyone with a straight face say they don't like 'foreign' food?  

But of course you will be aware that a policy of multiculturalism is not a pre-requisite for foreigners or foreign expertise to enter these shores.  The problem is that the issue is (intentionally) framed  wrong.  It's not like the only alternative to multiculturalism is having a 100% monocultural/monoracial society.  Migrants of all colours are free to come, but they are encouraged to assimilate ie "go out of their way to learn about our customs and culture" - exactly like the greeks, italians, vietnamese that multicult-boosters use to bolster their case were.  

So what would you rather - a collection of tribes, or a coherent, unified culture, whoever it may comprise of?  THAT is the real underlying question.


But that's what multiculturalism IS...encouraging intergration...



No dear friend, ASSIMILATION is what you refer to.  Multiculturalism is encouraging 'new australians' to retain a separate culture.   

From multicultuiralism wiki:

Quote:
Multiculturalism is the appreciation, acceptance or promotion of multiple cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities, or nations.

In a political context the term is used for a range of meanings, ranging from the advocacy of equal respect to the various cultures in a society, to a policy of promoting the maintenance of cultural diversity, to policies in which people of various ethnic and religious groups are addressed by the authorities as defined by the group they belong to.[1][2] A common aspect of many such policies is that they avoid presenting any specific ethnic, religious, or cultural community values as central.[citation needed]

Multiculturalism is often contrasted with the concepts assimilationism and has been described as a "salad bowl" or "cultural mosaic" rather than a "melting pot."[3]


and from assimilation wiki:

Quote:
Cultural assimilation is a socio-political response to demographic multi-ethnicity that supports or promotes the assimilation of ethnic minorities into the dominant culture. The term assimilation is often used with regard to immigrants and various ethnic groups who have settled in a new land. New customs and attitudes are acquired through contact and communication. The transfer of customs is not simply a one-way process. Each group of immigrants contributes some of its own cultural traits to its new society.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #287 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 12:29pm
 
... wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:44am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:38am:
... wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:29am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 11:17am:
... wrote on Nov 29th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
Bob Miller wrote on Nov 27th, 2011 at 9:31pm:
Weighing its Pros and Cons, I am also for multi-culturalism.




You must really like foreign cuisine.  


Well, I like foreign cuisine......and I quite like a lot of foreign born people and their Australian born children too....

I've found that a large number of immigrants are friendly, and go out of their way to learn about our customs and culture....


Of course you like foreign cuisine - how could anyone with a straight face say they don't like 'foreign' food?  

But of course you will be aware that a policy of multiculturalism is not a pre-requisite for foreigners or foreign expertise to enter these shores.  The problem is that the issue is (intentionally) framed  wrong.  It's not like the only alternative to multiculturalism is having a 100% monocultural/monoracial society.  Migrants of all colours are free to come, but they are encouraged to assimilate ie "go out of their way to learn about our customs and culture" - exactly like the greeks, italians, vietnamese that multicult-boosters use to bolster their case were.  

So what would you rather - a collection of tribes, or a coherent, unified culture, whoever it may comprise of?  THAT is the real underlying question.


But that's what multiculturalism IS...encouraging intergration...



No dear friend, ASSIMILATION is what you refer to.  Multiculturalism is encouraging 'new australians' to retain a separate culture.  

From multicultuiralism wiki:

Quote:
Multiculturalism is the appreciation, acceptance or promotion of multiple cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities, or nations.

In a political context the term is used for a range of meanings, ranging from the advocacy of equal respect to the various cultures in a society, to a policy of promoting the maintenance of cultural diversity, to policies in which people of various ethnic and religious groups are addressed by the authorities as defined by the group they belong to.[1][2] A common aspect of many such policies is that they avoid presenting any specific ethnic, religious, or cultural community values as central.[citation needed]

Multiculturalism is often contrasted with the concepts assimilationism and has been described as a "salad bowl" or "cultural mosaic" rather than a "melting pot."[3]


and from assimilation wiki:

Quote:
Cultural assimilation is a socio-political response to demographic multi-ethnicity that supports or promotes the assimilation of ethnic minorities into the dominant culture. The term assimilation is often used with regard to immigrants and various ethnic groups who have settled in a new land. New customs and attitudes are acquired through contact and communication. The transfer of customs is not simply a one-way process. Each group of immigrants contributes some of its own cultural traits to its new society.


Sorry, I don't see it quite that way....
Pre-Multiculturalism, we had the enclave problem, but government 'mandated' (if you like)...the immigrant housing settlements like the 'silver city' hostels (all surplus quonset huts) of the post WW2 era....
The people had to live in government run hostels until they'd paid back the fare to get here........And a lack of language skills and cultural differences ,combined with predjudice effectively forced the people to clump together...

Multiculturalism was designed to combat that.........The idea was to encourage immigrants to assimilate slowly while keeping their comfort zones, and to encourage understanding by local populations of the changes involved...

It did work......whether or not it's still working is another thing altogether...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #288 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 2:05pm
 
well, it's right there in black n white.  (and a little bit o yellow)
I did say earlier that it has been intentionally misrepresented.  After all, who could oppose multiculturalism if the allusion was that the only alternative is a monochromatic facsist state?

I don't for a second think that multiculturalism was 'designed to encourage immigrants to assimilate slowly'.  No, one must look to the roots of the ideology to find the architects of the scheme, and their motives.  I will spare you the full extent of my machiavellian speculations, but suffice to say it's the same old group, acting only in their own self interest who are behind it.
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falah
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #289 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 7:33pm
 
Some people have tried assimilation like Pol Pot  - didn't work out in the end.

The combined effects of forced labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions resulted in the deaths of approximately 21 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 people died under his leadership. He also led a ruthless and ideologically driven campaign against western culture and capitalism in Cambodia.

the oppression of minorities ends in the oppression of all:

A set of new prisons was also constructed in Khmer Rouge run areas. The Cham minority attempted an uprising around this time against attempts to destroy their culture. While the uprising was quickly crushed, Saloth [Pol Pot's real name] ordered that harsh physical torture be used against most of those involved in the revolt. As previously, Saloth tested out harsh new policies against the Cham minority before extending them to the general population of the country.

Victims of the Khmer assimilation policy included:

Ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Chinese, ethnic Thai and other minorities in Eastern Highland, Cambodian Christians (most of whom were Catholic, and the Catholic Church in general), Muslims and the Buddhist monks. The Roman Catholic cathedral of Phnom Penh was completely razed. The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they regard as forbidden (ḥarām). Many of those who refused were killed. Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed.


...

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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #290 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 7:39pm
 
falah wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 7:33pm:
Some people have tried assimilation like Pol Pot  - didn't work out in the end.

The combined effects of forced labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions resulted in the deaths of approximately 21 percent of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 people died under his leadership. He also led a ruthless and ideologically driven campaign against western culture and capitalism in Cambodia.

the oppression of minorities ends in the oppression of all:

A set of new prisons was also constructed in Khmer Rouge run areas. The Cham minority attempted an uprising around this time against attempts to destroy their culture. While the uprising was quickly crushed, Saloth [Pol Pot's real name] ordered that harsh physical torture be used against most of those involved in the revolt. As previously, Saloth tested out harsh new policies against the Cham minority before extending them to the general population of the country.

Victims of the Khmer assimilation policy included:

Ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Chinese, ethnic Thai and other minorities in Eastern Highland, Cambodian Christians (most of whom were Catholic, and the Catholic Church in general), Muslims and the Buddhist monks. The Roman Catholic cathedral of Phnom Penh was completely razed. The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they regard as forbidden (ḥarām). Many of those who refused were killed. Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/PolPot.jpg/220px-PolPot...




LOL.  yeah people tried multiculturalism before in Rwanda, or Bosnia and it didn't work out either.
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Emma
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #291 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 8:30pm
 
I believe Falah was referring to assimilation -- not  multi-culturalism,  in referencing PolPot,

and your spurious and disgusting reply IITT  .. Angry
shows what little YOU know of .'truth', or respect or human decency.. or life and death..... midget brained moron who seems to be about aged 19 max.(based on your puerile posts)

You are a LIE IITT.
Why stir up crap  --- I assure you, as you seem not to know, there's plenty to go round.!!!!!!!!! Angry Cheesy

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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #292 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 8:46pm
 
Emma wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 8:30pm:
I believe Falah was referring to assimilation -- not  multi-culturalism,  in referencing PolPot,

and your spurious and disgusting reply IITT  .. Angry
shows what little YOU know of .'truth', or respect or human decency.. or life and death..... midget brained moron who seems to be about aged 19 max.(based on your puerile posts)

You are a LIE IITT.
Why stir up crap  --- I assure you, as you seem not to know, there's plenty to go round.!!!!!!!!! Angry Cheesy




Yes and I was referring to multiculturalism, not assimilation, referencing rwnada and Bosnia in my post.  

you...do realise that the cause of both conflicts was ethnic tension... don't you?


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Soren
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #293 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 8:56pm
 
... wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 8:46pm:
Emma wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 8:30pm:
I believe Falah was referring to assimilation -- not  multi-culturalism,  in referencing PolPot,

and your spurious and disgusting reply IITT  .. Angry
shows what little YOU know of .'truth', or respect or human decency.. or life and death..... midget brained moron who seems to be about aged 19 max.(based on your puerile posts)

You are a LIE IITT.
Why stir up crap  --- I assure you, as you seem not to know, there's plenty to go round.!!!!!!!!! Angry Cheesy




Yes and I was referring to multiculturalism, not assimilation, referencing rwnada and Bosnia in my post.  

you...do realise that the cause of both conflicts was ethnic tension... don't you?




No, she doesn't.

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Emma
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #294 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 9:31pm
 
so you were not replying to Falah?? That what you say??

YOU were talking about MULTI-CULTURALISM/?

That's the point - FALAH was referring to ASSIMILATION...  
yet you quote FALAH,,,  and   1st thing  LOL. Angry Smiley

But back to Bosnia/Rwanda- I don't think ... err ..these human disasters are the same thing as multi-culturalism, .at all.
What a crap artist u r ... these were ethnic and territorial, -- they happened where the territorial was at least as imperative as the ethnic... hence the imbalances which lead to ...genocide.

These are not examples of multi-culturalism.  Angry Smiley
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #295 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 9:39pm
 
Emma wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 9:31pm:
so you were not replying to Falah?? That what you say??

YOU were talking about MULTI-CULTURALISM/?

That's the point - FALAH was referring to ASSIMILATION...  
yet you quote FALAH,,,  and   1st thing  LOL. Angry Smiley

But back to Bosnia/Rwanda- I don't think ... err ..these human disasters are the same thing as multi-culturalism, .at all.
What a crap artist u r ... these were ethnic and territorial, -- they happened where the territorial was at least as imperative as the ethnic... hence the imbalances which lead to ...genocide.

These are not examples of multi-culturalism.  Angry Smiley



Well he provided 1 extreme example of assimilation, so I provided 2 extreme examples of multiculturalism.  You see how that works?   

All demented ramblings aside, yes I'm afraid they are examples of multicullturalism.  Wishing it aint so doesn't change the fact that it_is_the_truth. 

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Emma
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #296 - Nov 30th, 2011 at 10:07pm
 
All demented ramblings aside, yes I'm afraid they are examples of multicullturalism.  Wishing it aint so doesn't change the fact that it_is_the_truth. 

Tongue No it's not.

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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #297 - Dec 1st, 2011 at 10:04am
 
Emma wrote on Nov 30th, 2011 at 10:07pm:
All demented ramblings aside, yes I'm afraid they are examples of multicullturalism.  Wishing it aint so doesn't change the fact that it_is_the_truth.  

Tongue No it's not.




It's not because....all those dark people/slavic types are the same?

Ba-Bow. 
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Emma
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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #298 - Dec 1st, 2011 at 8:31pm
 
No knockout ....Fnspam,,  Smiley Wink
It's not because....all those dark people/slavic types are the same?   No it's not. Do'n gimme datshi.!

you're still stuck ...  OVER THERE, maybe,???.
WHERE EVER THERE IS.

Both your examples are disputes that go back in TIME longer than Australia has been in existence.


Australia, at least in essence a multi-cultural society from the start.  Much like the America's.
So -  Australia - for immigrants - is new ground.

Sorry to the first australians,  history has swept us all along , and we haven't had a very big outboard motor to get out of the currrent.
No  good comes of fostering division and hatred.

Where EVER it derives from!,  and we should try to learn from the past.

See
I'm an idealist, embittered by life to some cynicism, but never defeated.
HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL in the human heart...
and you miserable ....... should be ashamed.!!




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Re: Do you support multiculturalism? If so, why?
Reply #299 - Dec 1st, 2011 at 9:04pm
 
Emma wrote on Dec 1st, 2011 at 8:31pm:
Both your examples are disputes that go back in TIME longer than Australia has been in existence.


Australia, at least in essence a multi-cultural society from the start.  Much like the America's.
So -  Australia - for immigrants - is new ground.





Ahh they are old conflicts?  Well that's Ok then. what a great future weve got to look forward to!!  How long until the ethnic cleansing begins?

AAnyhoo enough sarcasm.  Your claim of 'multicultural' from the start couldnt be more wrong.


Quote:
The original United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 103) provided the first rules to be followed by the United States in the granting of national citizenship. This law limited naturalization to immigrants who were "free white persons" of "good moral character". It thus left out indentured servants, slaves, free blacks, and later Asians. While women were included in the act, the right of citizenship did "not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...." Citizenship was inherited exclusively through the father. This was the only statute that ever purported to grant the status of natural born citizen.[1][2]


Now tell me which bit of that says it's a multicultural society?  LOL.  And need I remind you multiculturalism has only been a policy in oz for say, 40 years? 

I suppose you'll deny history next?
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