I feel preference voting makes voting a fast. Parties are able to get together and stop minor parties that they don't like from being elected. The Greens lost 3 seats due to this in the last election and One Nation also lost a seat. It really makes a fast of who we vote for.

I voted CDP because they gave preferences to the Liberals but the more i think about it I still would have voted for them because of their immigration policy. Your vote is only a waste if you vote for someone you don't really want to vote for.

Freediver I knew you would come back with "It stops minor parties", didn't you read what I wrote?

How can you speak for everyone? We are all individuals and I believe the people who vote for minor parties today would keep their vote the same way as their parties have more of an opportunity to picking up a seat. Take away preferences and you take away 30% of the vote for the two major parties. After the first election people would see this then their would be a flood for minor parties.

Your argument has been going around since Menzies. The argument itself is crap just to keep the two major parties as a monopoly.

Take away preferences and you take away 30% of the vote for the two major parties.

No you don't. Many people would vote strategically for the major parties. Even if you did take away 30%, that's still 70% for the major parties and 30% for all the minor parties to share, which still means they don't get elected. The only difference then is that the major parties do not court the preferences of the minor parties.

After the first election people would see this then their would be a flood for minor parties.

There would be fewer minor parties and they would get far less of the vote. That is what happens in reality. Global experience backs me up on this.

The argument itself is crap just to keep the two major parties as a monopoly.

The two parties do not have a monopoly. The minor parties hold considerably power in Australia compared to places without preferential voting like the US. Abolishing preferential voting creates a two party duopoly.

Your argument has been going around since Menzies.

It has been going around since preferential voting was first promoted and adopted. It is going around in countries that don't have preferential voting yet, because they are stuck with unfair voting systems.

Read Wikipedia on Australian Elections and look at the breakdown before preferences.

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2007 at 7:59pm:


Liberal 30%
Labour 40%
Greens 22%
One Nation 8%

as an example.

I think once people see another party closing the gap they will also see that their vote wont be wasted by voting for a party that really has their issues at heart.

Eventually we would probably see;
Liberal 18%
Labour 22%
Greens 21%
Democrats 16%
One Nation 13%
Enviro Party 10%

As an example.

Your argument is based on assumption and so is mine. People have been brainwashed to believe that 2 party's is it. Any smaller party is generally ganged up on by both majors. This is what taking away preference voting will stop. The two major parties have a monopoly on power over this country.

the most preferred candidate.

Sort of the most popular overall.

enviro wrote on Apr 19^th, 2007 at 8:27pm:


Where did the National Party disappear to?

I cant ever see the Greens gain 21% of the vote, it was around 7% in the last election. If anything, they will go south, just like the Democrats, because the major parties will hijack their policy. Also, the environment will become a larger issue in future elections (perhaps the prime issue) therefore the major parties will continue to "green up".

All other parties gained about 1 or 2% of the primary vote last time around, so how will they get enough traction and reach double digits?

Preference voting should be scrapped... and compulsory voting should be scrapped. The two-party system needs to be scrapped... big time. Too much of stranglehold over the country.

These two so-called different parties are what you'd call 'catch all parties.'
They only do what they have to to get votes. Other than power... they couldn't gve a rats about what the average Aussie thinks.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:35pm:



Donald -well said.!!

Quote:


Preference voting s when you put.. 1234 in each box right? 

Quote:


I wouldn't call the national party a 'major party' would you?


Quote:


Then why don't we just do it the same way as in Qld then? Juist stick a #1 next to the party you want?

(Apologies... I cant read yur link yet.)

Quote:


If that's true.. then I've been greatly misinformed.

I don't understand though...  on why we can't just vote one party in... and just that one vote counts. Why all this preference bullkr@p? Can't we just do it the old-fashioned way? Stdyng the voting system.. it sees to me that ever since the preferential voting system was introduced... the two major parties have dominated... while the weaker parties have dwindled.


Quote:


Are yiou sure about that freediver?    What about Israel's system? They have about 15 parties of equal size. As well as Indonesia... who have three major parties who have the potential to win office.

Your main study area is obviously 'voting,' freediver.

enviro said Quote:


freediver said Quote:


You don't think? Did you even attempt to look for this link? You were in a heated debate with Zoso and this particular link was evidentual fact which you completely ignored and still kept going on with your verbal diahrea. Real wanker material freediver. This is two debates you have entered refusing to accept any other factual information that relates to the argument and blatantly brushing it off.

There's no need to start throwing insults enviro.

When I say, not being educated in this area like you, preference voting I also mean that parties cannot give their votes to other parties because this is where and how deals are made.

You mean abolish above the line voting in the senate, and the QLD system? Deals will be made regardless because parties hand out how to vote cards. Even under the senate or QLD system people still have a choice to fill out their own preferences. To me, that is a major role of minor parties - to negotiate with the major parties and let their supporters know which of the major parties are more supportive of their views. The 'deals' are a good thing.

All running parties should be given the same budget and exposure as it is the media at the end of the day that convinces us who to choose.

So I could get a bunch of mates together, start a party and get given a heap of money by the government to spend on special promotional beer?

Getting rid of preferential voting, or whatever high tech word you want to use, means that we vote for the party that has policies that we agree to and not find out that all we did was vote through the back door propping up Labour and Liberal who have a definitive monopoly on Australian politics.

Are you saying that people who vote for a minor party should not get any say in whether Labor or the coalition rules?

You don't think? Did you even attempt to look for this link?

The stats you described are nothing like that link. If I had tried to find them I would have just wasted my time. That is why custom dictates that the person using the stats provides backup for them.

This is two debates you have entered refusing to accept any other factual information that relates to the argument and blatantly brushing it off.

The stats you made up were wrong. Of course I refused to accept them.

dt and enviro  - yes, I guess in the end the preferential system does favour the major parties.

It depends what it is replaced with.

---

Direct democracy in Australia

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1175406277

the need for political parties

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1173261822/0

Should preference voting be disabled

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1176974719

Republic discussion vs Monarchy (?)

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1174963616

A different Political System  ?

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1175233421

Liberals trying to gag voters..sneaky deceitful.

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1175730573

Rock Enrol

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1171784399

Politics Online

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1176680937