Australian Politics Forum - Should preference voting be disabled

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Should preference voting be disabled Reply #15 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:41pm Preference voting should be scrapped And replaced with what? The two-party system needs to be scrapped And replaced with what? Mandatory seats for the minor parties?
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oceans_blue

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #16 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:41pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:35pm:

Preference voting should be scrapped... and compulsory voting should be scrapped. The two-party system needs to be scrapped... big time. Too much of stranglehold over the country.

These two so-called different parties are what you'd call 'catch all parties.'
They only do what they have to to get votes. Other than power... they couldn't gve a rats about what the average Aussie thinks.

Donald -well said.!!

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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: Should preference voting be disabled Reply #17 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:45pm Quote: The two-party system needs to be scrapped And replaced with what? Mandatory seats for the minor parties? No. There can be more than two major parties.
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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: Should preference voting be disabled Reply #18 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:47pm Quote: Preference voting should be scrapped And replaced with what? Preference voting s when you put.. 1234 in each box right?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Should preference voting be disabled Reply #19 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:52pm No. There can be more than two major parties. There already can. There already is. Preference voting s when you put.. 1234 in each box right? Yes. You might find this interesting: http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/electoral-reform.html
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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #20 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 3:55pm

Quote:

There already can. There already is.

I wouldn't call the national party a 'major party' would you?

Quote:

Preference voting s when you put.. 1234 in each box right?

Yes.

Then why don't we just do it the same way as in Qld then? Juist stick a #1 next to the party you want?

(Apologies... I cant read yur link yet.)

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freediver

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #21 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 4:00pm

I wouldn't call the national party a 'major party' would you?

Yes. You can't expect to have 3 or 4 major parties of almost equal size.

Then why don't we just do it the same way as in Qld then? Juist stick a #1 next to the party you want?

That is still preference voting. What happens then is that the party effectively fills in the rest of the numbers for you. Of course, they have to tell the EC how they do this before the election.

You really should read that link. There is a lot to this issue.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #22 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 4:14pm

Quote:

That is still preference voting. What happens then is that the party effectively fills in the rest of the numbers for you. Of course, they have to tell the EC how they do this before the election.

If that's true.. then I've been greatly misinformed.

I don't understand though... on why we can't just vote one party in... and just that one vote counts. Why all this preference bullkr@p? Can't we just do it the old-fashioned way? Stdyng the voting system.. it sees to me that ever since the preferential voting system was introduced... the two major parties have dominated... while the weaker parties have dwindled.

Quote:

Yes. You can't expect to have 3 or 4 major parties of almost equal size.

Are yiou sure about that freediver? Huh

What about Israel's system? They have about 15 parties of equal size. As well as Indonesia... who have three major parties who have the potential to win office.

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freediver

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #23 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 4:22pm

Can't we just do it the old-fashioned way?

It has some serious issues in practice - the spoiler effect and strategic voting. Look at how poorly the minor parties do in US elections. That is because they do it the old fashioned way (FPTP).

Stdyng the voting system.. it sees to me that ever since the preferential voting system was introduced... the two major parties have dominated... while the weaker parties have dwindled.

Stats? Links?

What about Israel's system? They have about 15 parties of equal size.

The largest has 29 seats, the next 19, then 12, 12, 11, 9, 7, 6, 5.....

They do have more powerful minor parties, but this is via proportional representation, not FPTP.

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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: Should preference voting be disabled Reply #24 - Apr 20^th, 2007 at 4:30pm Your main study area is obviously 'voting,' freediver.
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enviro

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #25 - Apr 21^st, 2007 at 7:03pm

Thanks for your stats on Isreal freediver because you have proved that many parties can still have an opportunity of winning an election. When I say, not being educated in this area like you, preference voting I also mean that parties cannot give their votes to other parties because this is where and how deals are made. All running parties should be given the same budget and exposure as it is the media at the end of the day that convinces us who to choose. This next federal election will be fought between Fairfax an Murdoch.

Getting rid of preferential voting, or whatever high tech word you want to use, means that we vote for the party that has policies that we agree to and not find out that all we did was vote through the back door propping up Labour and Liberal who have a definitive monopoly on Australian politics.

Freedive, you wanker, you have the hide to call me rude and you won't even take time out to read the link that Zoso put up showing you facts. It just proves you are not interested in anyone elses opinion only your own. Go F yourself.

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #26 - Apr 21^st, 2007 at 7:11pm

enviro said Quote:

Consider me rude but Zoso placed it on another thread which I had presumed you read as you were in the debate.

freediver said Quote:

I don't think that example backed up your argument either. But I am very glad now I didn't bother looking for it as you suggested.

You don't think? Did you even attempt to look for this link? You were in a heated debate with Zoso and this particular link was evidentual fact which you completely ignored and still kept going on with your verbal diahrea. Real wanker material freediver. This is two debates you have entered refusing to accept any other factual information that relates to the argument and blatantly brushing it off.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #27 - Apr 21^st, 2007 at 9:29pm

dt and enviro - yes, I guess in the end the preferential system does favour the major parties.

The media has a MASSIVE influence on voters. I have seen 2 elections where the media have been beyond acceptable limits for my comfort.
One was keating, other was peter beattie up here, I think.

I like compulsory voting.

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freediver

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #28 - Apr 22^nd, 2007 at 9:22am

There's no need to start throwing insults enviro.

When I say, not being educated in this area like you, preference voting I also mean that parties cannot give their votes to other parties because this is where and how deals are made.

You mean abolish above the line voting in the senate, and the QLD system? Deals will be made regardless because parties hand out how to vote cards. Even under the senate or QLD system people still have a choice to fill out their own preferences. To me, that is a major role of minor parties - to negotiate with the major parties and let their supporters know which of the major parties are more supportive of their views. The 'deals' are a good thing.

All running parties should be given the same budget and exposure as it is the media at the end of the day that convinces us who to choose.

So I could get a bunch of mates together, start a party and get given a heap of money by the government to spend on special promotional beer?

Getting rid of preferential voting, or whatever high tech word you want to use, means that we vote for the party that has policies that we agree to and not find out that all we did was vote through the back door propping up Labour and Liberal who have a definitive monopoly on Australian politics.

Are you saying that people who vote for a minor party should not get any say in whether Labor or the coalition rules?

You don't think? Did you even attempt to look for this link?

The stats you described are nothing like that link. If I had tried to find them I would have just wasted my time. That is why custom dictates that the person using the stats provides backup for them.

This is two debates you have entered refusing to accept any other factual information that relates to the argument and blatantly brushing it off.

The stats you made up were wrong. Of course I refused to accept them.

dt and enviro - yes, I guess in the end the preferential system does favour the major parties.

It depends what it is replaced with.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2007 at 4:34pm by freediver »

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Poll
Question: Should preference voting be disabled
Yes No Undecided « Created by: enviro on: Apr 19^th, 2007 at 7:25pm »