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deepthought
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In Defence Of Liberty

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Re: member run boards
Reply #30 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 3:14pm:
I suspect everyone is aware of this, but just in case you aren't:

If you disagree with the way a member run board is hosted you are welcome to bring it up with the moderator, however if you don't get your way your only recourse is to stop using the board in question. You are not compelled to use the member run boards even if they are the obvious place for a thread you want to start, based on the topic. While they are convenient 'repositories' for a given topic, they should also be viewed as experiments in moderating styles. If a board is hosted well it should attract participants. If not, people will avoid it.

Do not try to make each moderator conform to uniform 'OzPolitic-wide' values and standards regarding free speech and civility, beyond the basic rules outlined above. The member run boards are intended to foster a diversity of communal experience. Your freedom of speech is not infringed if you can simply repost the same thing elsewhere where it will be equally (or most likely more) prominent.



So tell me freediver, if you believe this (and unless this a display of your hypocrisy I guess you do) why did you overrule a moderator decision in the user run boards?
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freediver
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #31 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:27pm
 
I didn't. It was the member's choice to delete the post, because the post was made by that member. If you had chosen to delete a post, I wouldn't have over-ruled you. That being said, I have over-ruled hosts in the past and reinstated deleted posts, but no-one has complained so far. Preventing a person from deleting their own post is not a moderator 'right' in the first place. It only appeared to exist due to the absence of a button. If it makes you happy I will restore the button so members can do it themselves and you won't have to fret over imaginary rights that I am taking away from moderators. But as I said elsewhere, I would like it discussed here first in a new thread.

You are mistaking a technical 'flaw' that deprived members of a right for an authority assigned to moderators. It was not a moderators decision in the first place. You imagined you had a power that you didn't really have. It only became an issue because you tried to abuse that power.
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deepthought
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #32 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:27pm:
I didn't. It was the member's choice to delete the post, because the post was made by that member. If you had chosen to delete a post, I wouldn't have over-ruled you. That being said, I have over-ruled hosts in the past and reinstated deleted posts, but no-one has complained so far. Preventing a person from deleting their own post is not a moderator 'right' in the first place. It only appeared to exist due to the absence of a button. If it makes you happy I will restore the button so members can do it themselves and you won't have to fret over imaginary rights that I am taking away from moderators. But as I said elsewhere, I would like it discussed here first in a new thread.

You are mistaking a technical 'flaw' that deprived members of a right for an authority assigned to moderators. It was not a moderators decision in the first place. You imagined you had a power that you didn't really have. It only became an issue because you tried to abuse that power.



I exercised no power.   You did.  It would have been an exercise of power had I deleted a post.  But I didn't.  And as it was impossible for the contributor to delete their own post the post would have remained had you not overruled the moderator who declined to remove it.

But yet you say that "If you disagree with the way a member run board is hosted you are welcome to bring it up with the moderator, however if you don't get your way your only recourse is to stop using the board in question".  

Why are you a hypocrite?  Because you are now saying that is not the case.  Why do you state two opposing concepts?
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freediver
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #33 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:45pm
 
I exercised no power.

Yes you did. You edited a member's post against their wishes. The member attempted to delete her post by removing the content, which would normally suffice. You denied her the right to delete her post.

Editing another member's post is usually a big 'no-no' in moderating. It pisses people off - often more than deleting a post.

You did.

The member in question did. It's just that she had to go through me because the button wasn't there. You are confusing a right with the method used to exercise the right.

And as it was impossible for the contributor to delete their own post the post would have remained had ytou not overruled the moderator who declined to remove it.

You have missed the point. I did not over-rule you because it was never your decision. Mantra only asked you because of a technical flaw, not because it was something you had genuine authority over. You only imagined that you had that authority. You took advantage of a situation, that's all.
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deepthought
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #34 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 4:45pm:
I exercised no power.

Yes you did. You edited a member's post against their wishes. The member attempted to delete her post by removing the content, which would normally suffice. You denied her the right to delete her post.

Editing another member's post is usually a big 'no-no' in moderating. It pisses people off - often more than deleting a post.

You did.

The member in question did. It's just that she had to go through me because the button wasn't there. You are confusing a right with the method used to exercise the right.

And as it was impossible for the contributor to delete their own post the post would have remained had ytou not overruled the moderator who declined to remove it.

You have missed the point. I did not over-rule you because it was never your decision. Mantra only asked you because of a technical flaw, not because it was something you had genuine authority over. You only imagined that you had that authority. You took advantage of a situation, that's all.



The post had words added as the thread's opening post said it would have, nothing more and nothing less.  Nothing was deleted and the added words were clearly marked as added by a mod and the word was bolded to make it clear it had been added by a mod.    By posting in a thread that stated that words would be added if the contributor did not use the words themselves mantra implicitly agreed to the terms of the thread.   She had no right to complain that she did not want her post there after she put it there.

And why was there a technical flaw that stopped mantra from deleting her post?  Does the 'technical flaw' apply to everyone or just mantra?  Or are you lying now because it is not a 'technical flaw' at all but a forum policy that a member can not delete their own post?

You did overrule the mod's decision to leave the post.  If you had not the post would still be there.
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freediver
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #35 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:12pm
 
By posting in a thread that stated that words would be added if the contributor did not use the words themselves mantra implicitly agreed to the terms of the thread.

No she didn't. She explicitly disagreed with the terms.

She had no right to complain that she did not want her post there after she put it there.

She did have the right to remove her post.

And why was there a technical flaw that stopped mantra from deleting her post?  Does the 'technical flaw' apply to everyone or just mantra?  Or are you lying now because it is not a 'technical flaw' at all but a forum policy that a member can not delete their own post?

I have explained that in another thread already. There used to be a button that allowed members to do what mantra wanted to do. Perhaps you weren't here then.

You did overrule the mod's decision to leave the post.  If you had not the post would still be there.

I have explained a number of times that is wasn't the mods decision. I am not sure how to make it any clearer to you. I am not saying the post wasn't removed as you seem to think. I am saying it was not your decision to make.
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oceanz
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #36 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:16pm
 
FD  I dont think I ever rememeber a button to delete a post..we could edit our posts and sometimes even that appears to be not an option..other times it does.

The editing functions are important and can circumvent a lot of problems such as the little fart fiasco of the last
4
days.
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freediver
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #37 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:19pm
 
I have switched off the editing function occasionally when I suspected it was being abused, but I always turn it back on shortly after. I don't think I have done this in the last few months. If the option disappears again please start a new thread about it on this board.
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deepthought
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #38 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:12pm:
By posting in a thread that stated that words would be added if the contributor did not use the words themselves mantra implicitly agreed to the terms of the thread.

No she didn't. She explicitly disagreed with the terms.

She had no right to complain that she did not want her post there after she put it there.

She did have the right to remove her post.

And why was there a technical flaw that stopped mantra from deleting her post?  Does the 'technical flaw' apply to everyone or just mantra?  Or are you lying now because it is not a 'technical flaw' at all but a forum policy that a member can not delete their own post?

I have explained that in another thread already. There used to be a button that allowed members to do what mantra wanted to do. Perhaps you weren't here then.

You did overrule the mod's decision to leave the post.  If you had not the post would still be there.

I have explained a number of times that is wasn't the mods decision. I am not sure how to make it any clearer to you. I am not saying the post wasn't removed as you seem to think. I am saying it was not your decision to make.



By posting she agreed - unless you are saying she did not comprehend English words?  However you are wrong by even mantra's statements - she admitted she should not have posted there.   She made a bad choice and she has to live with the consequences and take responsibility for her actions.  Adults do.

If she had the right to remove her post where was the 'delete' button?  How do you delete your post without one if none exists?

And why are you lying now?  You said right at the start that "If you disagree with the way a member run board is hosted you are welcome to bring it up with the moderator, however if you don't get your way your only recourse is to stop using the board in question".  Now you are saying that's not the case as it is not the "moderator's decision to make"?  Who moderates the user run boards if not the moderator as you previously said?

Was the first statement a lie?  Or the second one?
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freediver
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #39 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:33pm
 
I have explained it to you a number of times already. I will not explain it to you again. If you don't understand it, tough luck. I don't believe you are as confused as you make out.
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deepthought
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #40 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:33pm:
I have explained it to you a number of times already. I will not explain it to you again. If you don't understand it, tough luck. I don't believe you are as confused as you make out.


I'm not confused about this - you are.  You have made two (probably more) completely contradictory statements.  One is a lie. 

I do confess to being confused about which one is the lie.
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logicalconclusion
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #41 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:41pm
 
Moderate: reasonable, temperate, judicious, just, cool, steady, calm. Moderate, temperate, judicious, reasonable

Moderator: One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate.

Most Forum Moderators don't even enter into the discussions on Forums.  They just Moderate them and make sure that the posters follow the rules of the Forum (that you agree to on signing up) and "warn" posters if they are out of line according to the Forum Rules.  Read the Rules!

Moderating is not being the person with the Big Stick as some people think.  After all, Forums are just people stating their opinions.  
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deepthought
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #42 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:46pm
 
logicalconclusion wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:41pm:
Moderate: reasonable, temperate, judicious, just, cool, steady, calm. Moderate, temperate, judicious, reasonable

Moderator: One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate.

Most Forum Moderators don't even enter into the discussions on Forums.  They just Moderate them and make sure that the posters follow the rules of the Forum (that you agree to on signing up) and "warn" posters if they are out of line according to the Forum Rules.  Read the Rules!

Moderating is not being the person with the Big Stick as some people think.  After all, Forums are just people stating their opinions.  



Welcome aboard logical.

I agree with you.  Yet freediver claims that you can post even after reading the terms and still "explicitly disagree with the terms".

And the poster in question also agrees with that premise - that you can read the terms and then post with complete disregard for them.

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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #43 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 5:58pm
 
Thank you deepthought!  I vote liberal too because I care for Australia!

Some people seem to take their role as a Moderator to mean they have the "right" to stymie free speech!

Even QE2 "farts".  Grin
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Re: Forum Policies
Reply #44 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 6:01pm
 
Some people seem to take their role as a Moderator to mean they have the "right" to stymie free speech!

Um, that's what moderators are supposed to do. It is their responsibility. Even if a deletion is justified by whatever standards you apply, it still stymies freedom of speech. A moderated forum is one which by definition does not have absolute freedom of speech.
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