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Question: Who should say sorry to the Aborigines?



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Saying sorry (Read 52964 times)
aloof boof
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Saying sorry
Feb 23rd, 2007 at 9:15pm
 
One thing i have always wondered about is why the Aboriginals want the current population of Australia to say sorry(besides a compo claim).
I mean the British Government sent our fore fathers out here in the first place didn't they? so why dont the Brits have to say sorry.Our ancestors came here under sufference and under guard.We should tell the indigenous to see the poms about compo not us,if our ancestors had been given the choice i bet they would have stayed in that shithole 12,000 miles away
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #1 - Feb 23rd, 2007 at 9:46pm
 
The Aboriginals will NEVER stop complaining until left-wing bigots stop telling us to keep giving them compensation.

We've already apologised them a thousand times, but they're still not happy.

Why?

Because they want MONEY, ATTENTION and SUPERIORITY.


Aboriginals are a lost cause. My advice: Forget about them.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #2 - Feb 23rd, 2007 at 9:47pm
 
I say forgive and forget. thats what the abo's should do.
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2007 at 9:48pm by DILLIGAF »  

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #3 - Feb 24th, 2007 at 4:02pm
 
It's not just the aboriginies who think our society should apologise in a more official way. They deserve justice, including the return of wages that were stolen from them. You can't expect a group of people to get over such a massive injustice when the society that inflicted it on them isn't even aware of how recent it was.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #4 - Feb 24th, 2007 at 4:52pm
 
I know for a fact that even in the late 70's our indigenous people were treated like slaves.  In some outback towns in WA, aboriginals were allocated to cattle stations and properties where they were only given food and board (2nd rate at that) in exchange for jackarooing and unskilled work 6 days a week.

This was approved by the local police, politicians and of course the station owners who believed they were doing their unpaid workers a favour.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #5 - Feb 24th, 2007 at 5:35pm
 
Aboriginals are a lost cause. My advice: Forget about them. "
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DT..you are either a student or a teacher from what Ive read here...if your a student Id say comments like this are understandable, but if you are a teacher.... Cry
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #6 - Feb 24th, 2007 at 5:40pm
 
Aussie Nationalist....


The posting of the 'Centerlink' depiction of the so called Indigenous flag ....lets just say Im glad I didnt let that image represent my veiws and my persona.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #7 - Feb 24th, 2007 at 10:16pm
 
IT REPRESENTS MINE !!!!!
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2007 at 9:50pm by DILLIGAF »  

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #8 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:16am
 
Quote:
It's not just the aboriginies who think our society should apologise in a more official way. They deserve justice, including the return of wages that were stolen from them. You can't expect a group of people to get over such a massive injustice when the society that inflicted it on them isn't even aware of how recent it was.


You're 100% right freediver... let's correct past mistakes...   Roll Eyes

In the meantime... I demand compensation from Russia for invading Hungary and forcing my grandparents to relocate.

I also demand compensation on behalf of my grandpa for being kept in a Russian prison camp for 5 years with nothing to eat accept bread and mud... and nothing to drink accept snow and urine. The diseases he caught during this spell in the prison led him to die an early, agonising death, effectively causing my family grief and trauma that has stayed with us until this day...

I also demand compensation on behalf of AusNat, for the Americans bombing his Grandparents house in Austria, as well as the Muslims invading his homeland a few hundred years ago.

I would also like to ask compensation on behalf of the ancient Aztecs (Mexicans), for the Spanish effectively destroying their empire.

Roll Eyes
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #9 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 7:55am
 
You made some very good points DT - and in theory you are so right, but Australia is supposed to be a democratic country and once we dismiss human rights violations, we become just as bad as the rest of those nations who dismiss human suffering.

In some ways the aboriginals are a lost cause for the simple fact they have lost hope.  Many of our indigenous people cannot cope in our world with our rules and regulations.  After 60,000 years as hunter gatherers - they've only had 200 years to catch up with us  so called civilised citizens who have had thousands of years to develop into what we are today.  Remember - it was only 2 centuries ago - they were natives.

New Zealand and the US now give their indigenous people special recognition as well as the right to hold onto their cultures.  We seem to have a horsewhip out and demand that they keep up with us or else they're useless.  Call a dog a bad name and it sticks.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #10 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 9:17am
 
There is a big difference between apologising and saying sorry. To apologise is easy - just say the words. Just go to any state rail station 'cityrail apologises for any inconvenience' .... see how easy the words roll out.

But saying sorry implies that there is real heart-felt emotion behind the statement. People are not going to be acting authentically if they do not feel that emotion - and so don't want to say sorry as they feel that they are being forced to do it against their will. .

The Abos seem to have cause and effect confused - us saying sorry is not going to suddenly make us feel bad about what some stranger did so many years ago - nor is is going to make us feel responsible, nor can we re-write history to make it better for them.

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #11 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 4:54pm
 
DT, demanding compensation for acts of war is what caused WWII to follow WWI so closely. On the other hand, truth and reconcilliation are effective ways to deal with civil injustices. All those examples you gave happened before a lot of the stolen wages.

The Abos seem to have cause and effect confused - us saying sorry is not going to suddenly make us feel bad about what some stranger did so many years ago - nor is is going to make us feel responsible, nor can we re-write history to make it better for them.

One of the biggest benefits of the national sorry campaign is that the public is more aware of the very recent injustices committed against the aboriginal people. When most people get the full story about what happened, they are genuinely sorry, and fell less inclined to blame the aborigines for all their problems.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #12 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 9:39pm
 
Very well said DT!
My sympathies to you about your grandfather.
I also had a great uncle who fought the russians in Hungary in 1956.
And my grandfather (captain) and great grandfather (colonel) were on the eastern front in WW2, both were at stalingrad (BEFORE ENCIRCLEMENT) and eventually were stationed in budapest, then pushed back to the austrian (home) border and they then slipped across to the American lines to surrender.
Both were wounded more than once.
I wont ask for compensation, because it did not happen to me!
Let past events fall into history.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #13 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 10:40pm
 
DT, you have no respect for the indigenous population (your Abo reference is offensive). What have they done to you?

Have you ever sat down with an Aboriginal elder and spoken about how his family was broken up by slave traders (in the 19th Century) or by the Protector up until the 1970s? Saying sorry is not admitting that you were to blame for the attrocity, it means that you understand what has happened, and express allegiance with their cause.

No decent elder wants compensation. They want recognition that Australia, as a democratic country and a signatory to the UN, committed crimes against its own people.

I live in a town where a third of the population is indigenous. Does it strike you as a problem when most of them live in poverty? That their lifespan is barely half of yours? Do you think they enjoy living with the stigma of being bludgers?

Most of the aboriginal people I have met are kind and considerate, and have a greater respect for their family than a majority of Australians. The problem is that they are treated like second class citizens, given no opportunity to succeed, and are manipulated by bureaucrats. Is it any wonder they turn to alcohol and start beating each other?

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #14 - Feb 25th, 2007 at 11:00pm
 
Quote:
In some ways the aboriginals are a lost cause for the simple fact they have lost hope.  Many of our indigenous people cannot cope in our world with our rules and regulations.  After 60,000 years as hunter gatherers - they've only had 200 years to catch up with us  so called civilised citizens who have had thousands of years to develop into what we are today.  Remember - it was only 2 centuries ago - they were natives.


Mantra, that is a ridiculous statement, and racist. Humans can adapt to any environment, as DT pointed out. His grandfather survived on swill for 5 years!

Aboriginals can cope with rules and regulations. They have had 40,000 years of practice. What do you think all those stories they tell are about? Their social system is far more complex than "our world's rules and regulations", and they don't even write it down.

The problem is that when they have followed the "rules and regulations" in the past, they have been shafted. There is a belief that it will happen again. We cannot move forward until Australia offers an apology for breaking its own rules.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #15 - Feb 26th, 2007 at 12:05am
 
Quote:
DT, you have no respect for the indigenous population (your Abo reference is offensive).


I have the UTMOST respect for the Aboriginal community. Don't jump to conclusions, Aushole.
I wish they were better off, and as the seemingly original people to occupy Australia (There has been some debate), I hope that their culture and people thrive in the near future. That's my official stance on Aboriginals.


Quote:
(your Abo reference is offensive)


Oh diddums!


Quote:
What have they done to you?


Apart from being racist and rude to me in person because I have a European appearance... not a thing (Yes aushole, Aborginals CAN be racist).


Quote:
Have you ever sat down with an Aboriginal elder and spoken about how his family was broken up by slave traders (in the 19th Century) or by the Protector up until the 1970s?


I have had the 'pleasure' of speaking with ONE aboriginal elder, and he was one of the most rudest and ignorant people I have EVER spoken to over the phone. Although, I wasn't asking about the subject matter you suggested, I was talking about Aboriginal child abuse (This was a University project).


Quote:
Saying sorry is not admitting that you were to blame for the attrocity, it means that you understand what has happened


If that's the case... can't I just say 'I understand' instead and continue living my life?


Quote:
and express allegiance with their cause.



What exactly IS their 'cause,' aushole?



Quote:
I live in a town where a third of the population is indigenous. Does it strike you as a problem when most of them live in poverty? That their lifespan is barely half of yours? Do you think they enjoy living with the stigma of being bludgers?


Yes. It's a problem. A BIG problem. How would you suggest to solve it? More Government handouts? More apologies?


Quote:
Most of the aboriginal people I have met are kind and considerate, and have a greater respect for their family than a majority of Australians. The problem is that they are treated like second class citizens, given no opportunity to succeed, and are manipulated by bureaucrats. Is it any wonder they turn to alcohol and start beating each other?


Drawing from my experience with Aboriginals, aushole, that is TOTAL and utter garbage.


Quote:
No decent elder wants compensation. They want recognition that Australia, as a democratic country and a signatory to the UN, committed crimes against its own people.


'Recognition.' What does that mean, exactly?
As far as I know, past Australian PM's have apologised on behalf of Australia... Bob Hawke, Gough Whitlam... etc etc. What difference will another acknowledgement make?  Huh
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #16 - Feb 26th, 2007 at 10:57am
 
What difference will another acknowledgement make?

For starters it will raise awareness of our recent history and allow the general public to put current political debate in context. I think that the treatement of aboriginies should be taught to high school students so that young people don't think they are living in a society that has treated aboriginies fair for generations and thus conclude (as too many do) that they bear all the responsibility for their problems.

Plus, we should pay back what was taken from them, especially if they are still alive.

Our debt to Pauline: http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172041500#10
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:14am by freediver »  

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #17 - Feb 26th, 2007 at 1:43pm
 
Quote:
For starters it will raise awareness of our recent history and allow the general public to put current political debate in context. I think that the treatement of aboriginies should be taught to high school students so that young people don't think they are living in a society that has treated aboriginies fair for generations and thus conclude (as too many do) that they bear all the responsibility for their problems.

Plus, we should pay back what was taken from them, especially if they are still alive.


Jesus christ.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #18 - Feb 26th, 2007 at 2:12pm
 
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Feb 26th, 2007 at 1:43pm:
Quote:
For starters it will raise awareness of our recent history and allow the general public to put current political debate in context. I think that the treatement of aboriginies should be taught to high school students so that young people don't think they are living in a society that has treated aboriginies fair for generations and thus conclude (as too many do) that they bear all the responsibility for their problems.

Plus, we should pay back what was taken from them, especially if they are still alive.


Jesus christ.  Roll Eyes

jesus H christ
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auzgurl
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #19 - Feb 26th, 2007 at 9:00pm
 
Aussie Nationalist...


It REPRESENTS MINE!!!!"
============================

Well you can be the proud owner of that one....it sure is a dubious honour!!!
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #20 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 2:35am
 
Quote:
jesus H christ


Grin Nice one.

My mistake. Jesus
H
Christ.
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aloof boof
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #21 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 7:17am
 
Hey Auzgurl,have you ever had any close contact with aboriginies?.I mean from reading what you write i dont think you understand what its like to be burgaled,bashed,abused or discriminated against by drunken aboriginals.If you had you might understand other peoples views on some of them
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #22 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:29am
 
AUSHole -

Quote:
Mantra, that is a ridiculous statement, and racist. Humans can adapt to any environment, as DT pointed out. His grandfather survived on swill for 5 years!


I certainly don't believe I'm racist, but do believe that those aboriginals who live in the outskirts of civilisation haven't had the opportunity or even desire to live as we do.  We have imposed our will and our behaviour on these people and demanded they be like us.

This is why we should apologise:

Quote:
In fact the loss of traditional lands, food sources and water resources was usually fatal, particularly to communities already weakened by disease. Additionally, Indigenous Australians groups had a deep spiritual and cultural connection to the land, so that in being forced to move away from traditional areas, cultural and spiritual practices necessary to the cohesion and well-being of the group could not be maintained. Unlike in New Zealand, no treaty was ever entered into with the indigenous peoples entitling the Europeans to land ownership. Proximity to settlers also brought venereal disease, to which Indigenous Australians had no tolerance and which greatly reduced indigenous fertility and birthrates. Settlers also brought alcohol, opium and tobacco; substance abuse has remained a chronic problem for indigenous communities ever since.

The combination of disease, loss of land and direct violence reduced the Aboriginal population by an estimated 90% between 1788 and 1900. The indigenous people in Tasmania were particularly hard-hit, with the last full-blood indigenous Tasmanian, Truganini, dying in 1876, although a substantial part-indigenous community survived


Have you heard of genetic psychology?  I certainly believe it has it's merits and is applicable to many aboriginals who have lived through and by the culture of their parents, grandparents and greatparents, etc.

Quote:
The histories of culture and psychogenesis, while closely related, are not one and the same. Each individual bears the mark of the culture that governs his existence and imposes itself on his activity. The language he acquires from it moulds his thoughts and structures his understanding. His movements are governed by the instruments his language puts into his hands. The organisation of the family and the relations between children and adults, between the sexes, between individual and collectivity-all impose more or less rigid frameworks upon the individual’s affectivity; they impose imperatives and prohibitions that can profoundly influence the individual’s constitution
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #23 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:39am
 
AUShole




"The problem is that when they have followed the "rules and regulations" in the past, they have been shafted. There is a belief that it will happen again. We cannot move forward until Australia offers an apology for breaking its own rules."



================================================================================
=

This is exactly the point and thank you for pointing it out...

The fact that Indidgenous pple are being referred to as Abos on here is ignorant and unnecssary.
Not too mention other 'instances, of deliberate racist remaks and depiction, which some seem to be proud of.

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auzgurl
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #24 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:40am
 
AUShole




"The problem is that when they have followed the "rules and regulations" in the past, they have been shafted. There is a belief that it will happen again. We cannot move forward until Australia offers an apology for breaking its own rules."



================================================================================
=

This is exactly the point and thank you for pointing it out...

The fact that Indidgenous pple are being referred to as Abos on here is ignorant and unnecssary.
Not too mention other 'instances, of deliberate racist remaks and depiction, which some seem to be proud of.

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auzgurl
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #25 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:04pm
 
boof    aloof...

I dont call these veiws..I call it ignorant 'abo' bashing..



"Hey Auzgurl,have you ever had any close contact with aboriginies?.I mean from reading what you write i dont think you understand what its like to be burgaled,bashed,abused or discriminated against by drunken aboriginals.If you had you might understand other peoples views on some of them"
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-------------------------------------------------------

Come on..dont we need to use our own brains at all when it comes to issues of humanity?

These pple were here for over 40 thousand years..all they want is a little courtesy extended to them..for the invasion of theyre country..ie: it was not nice we came here, dispossessed you and now we put our boots to the back of your heads and push your faces in the dirt for the last 200 hundred years.

Kept  on reserves out of sight..no jobs in mainstream society =no hope for a future. Why are they not afforded the same human rights and respect as anyone else here, even immigrants are respected way above the avreage Indigenous person.

Dying from diseases that only exist in 3rd world countries and in fact the death rate here from preventable disease is the highest in the world. Is this the lucky country for Indigenous pple in their country.?

The threads I see put up and the wqy in which I see they are referred to..'abo'..Centrelink flags-and bashing in general makes me see something I cannot be a part of or proud of. The contempt for these ppl is overwhemingly based in ignorance.



Yes I do have close contact with Indigenous pple..my sister is married to  a Kimberley man..he is wonderful hard working- and a loving and forgiving spirit., even though he is asked to leave hotels where ther is supposedly a 'dress code' when all the white guys in there are dressed excatly the same as he. He is black and they see nothing else.

The town where I live is very troubled by alcholism by local Aborigines and vilonence follows on from there unfortunately.. and it is hard to see and tolerate soemtimes....


But I am not so one eyed I cannot see that there are deep and complex issues underlying these social problems.

For every drunk black man ..living out his public misery..there are 100 who dont..they are not seen and so the media only picks up on the visibilty. Makes for good headlines and yes will  sell a story or 2...Media greed and bias..and the public is just sucking it up its clear by these forum comments.

Diseases bought in by pioneers to begin with, diseases they had no immunity to.


If we are going to comment at all on this serious topic, we need to resist the urge to get on the 'flog the blackfella bandwagon'..

Will it make us a bigger man ..a better person to do so??

If so how small and invisible did you feel?


Giving the black man a fair go comes down to common decency really...is there any left.

Yes some..but not anywhere near enough to redress the problems they face.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #26 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:24pm
 
Boof aloof....



" Most of the Muslims i know are nice easy going people who have different beliefs to me.However the hardliners i see on TV are the exact opposite."

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It would if you could make the same concession for Indigenouspple as you are prepared to make for Muslims..foreigners !!!!


They suffer from long, frequent and sustained media discrimination and beatups!!!!!

Because of this they suffer the half baked  'veiws' I have read on here.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #27 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:32pm
 
I was born and bred in the outback auzgurl and i have seen the best and worst of behaviour by indigenous people.But that was not my point,read my post again,i stated that other people have been abused and robbed etc and that is the view they have.Everyone is entitled to their opinion aren't they?
One more thing i will ask you
You say you live in a town that has problems with drunks.What is your solution to that.I am from Alice Springs were public drunkeness is common place.The authorities tried restricting sales,restricting hours of sale etc etc and everybody is up in arms about it.What can you do?Down the road a bit in Marla Bore an aboriginal cannot buy grog from the hotel by law,not the whitefella law,the blackfella law and it has stopped a lot of trouble.Is this ok by you?? to stop sales completely or isnt that fair.Alcohol is detroying indigenous people and culture every day but according to you they must have the same rights.And it is killing them Roll EyesWhat would you do
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #28 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 2:10pm
 
Aloof...

please do not put words in my mouth...

I never said they must have the same rights..never mentioned any such thing. The whys and wherefors of aclcholism re- Indigenous pple is not something I touched upon at all, except to say there were some alcholic INd. pple.They are so far behuind in terms of rights that that statement would men very little if anything at all!!!


I am just fed up with sweeping racist generalisations about Ind. pple. It further oppresses a pple so far down the food chain it disgusts me.

Sure there is an alcohol problem, and sure IT IS killing them and theyre communities..but the grog problem wil be solved only by communities and Governments who actually legislate in the interests of the pple and who actually give a poo. So far very little evidence of that .

I was born and bred in the outback too, for the most part and I too have seen how it works..Its the reason I understand as much as I do.

No jobs for INd. in the outback..except if you work on a station or for an indigenous" work incentive scheme"..local bus. not interested employing them as  ..they put customers off. So jobs are very limited and as a result dole recipients are high. If you live in the outback you would know this. I would expect city pple to not know. Its blatant discrimination against Ind. pple.

Dont talk to me about discrimination from Aborigines .
Its pathetic. If they are angry ,some of them, then its understandable.

If you dont believe thats true you need to open your eyes and listen to the pain and suffering around from Ind. pple....the ones youve been amongst your whole life but never really seen.



To have a job and give your kids a chance at a decent life and education so they can go on to fullfil roles in society to help theyre own pple?

You will never have to ponder this though because , by sheer luck, you didnt come out black.!!!



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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #29 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 2:17pm
 
Sure there is an alcohol problem, and sure IT IS killing them and theyre communities..but the grog problem wil be solved only by communities and Governments who actually legislate in the interests of the pple and who actually give a nuts. So far very little evidence of that"
==================

should have read...

Sure there is an alcohol problem, and sure IT IS KILLING them and theyre commnuities..but the grog problem will only be solved by commnuities and Goverments who actually legislate in the intrerests of the pple, whatever form that may take..to see any Government Dept. that actually gives a sh it?...Id like to see that. So far very little evidence of that !!

Personally Id like to see alcohol removed altogether..and I dont care about civil liberties..alcohol  is killing many Indigenous families and should be removed ..civil liberties in this case I dont care about..whilst we worry about civil liberties and the right of these pple to drink, we are taking away the rights of the children in these families to experience somewhere near a nomal life.


What about the rights of these children?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #30 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 8:19pm
 
Thanks AusGrl for your posts.  Smiley It is the best Ive seen on matters of the indeginous people. I do know what is like to be of another culture. Most times it is swept under the rug. At the least they should be given equal rights in everything with all credability. How would anyone feel to have everything taken from them ie conquered? In todays world there are cultures/races who are stepping up around the world.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #31 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:04pm
 
Aloof boof, ive been to the alice,en rout to darwin and i know what youve seen.
What about all of the ABO'S that hang around the todd river?
Have you stepped on any human turds left on the footpath?
You should see the ABO'S that hang around central station,devonshire st side in sydney!
What an eyesore the are. I thought they recieved welfare-(more than a white) payments?
Why do they constantly try to scab off passer bys?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #32 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 8:53am
 
Aussie N.  I have to go to Central at least once a week - the only aboriginals I see are usually a small group of drinking indigenous people with an equal number of White Aussies keeping them company.  If anything those who are lying around and are a sight for sore eyes are our forgotten "mentally ill" - mainly white Australians. 

The other day when walking past the "regular" drinking group - it was a white Australian who was making a nuisance of himself and harrassing any one who walked by.  His partners (mixed group) were sitting quietly with their heads down.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #33 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 9:02am
 
Aussie Nationalist..

Really showing your age now arent you?..


" Re: Saying sorry
Reply #31 - Yesterday at 9:04pm    Aloof boof, ive been to the alice,en rout to darwin and i know what youve seen.
What about all of the ABO'S that hang around the todd river?
Have you stepped on any human turds left on the footpath?
You should see the ABO'S that hang around central station,devonshire st side in sydney!
What an eyesore the are. I thought they recieved welfare-(more than a white) payments?
Why do they constantly try to scab off passer bys?  "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

Oh well..perhaps a few years will  see you posting with your brain attached to your mouth!!!!

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #34 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 11:59am
 

Mantra, ive never seen the white ones before, unless they were that dirty they took on the appearence of an abo.

We can thank hawke for closing down the mental institutes.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #35 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 12:46pm
 
auzgurl quote-
'' Personally Id like to see alcohol removed altogether..and I dont care about civil liberties..allof is right alcohol and kills Ind. families! ''


Agreed.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #36 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:20pm
 
OK ausgurl where is it you live to have so much do with aboriginies at the lower end of the scale.You are stating a lot of hearsay and rhetoric but can you back it up with actual fact.
I went to school with children of the so called"stolen generation" and i am here to tell you that if those kids had not got an education when they did the aboriginal plight would be in much sorrier state of repair than it already is.Most of those kids that got an education are doing well today as opposed to the generation after them who spend their time recieving 'sit down money'.What about the millions of dollars that was given to aboriginal people to buy and stock stations in the Territory in the 80's and 90's.How many are still in operation?One out of 10,thats how many.Why?because most of the employees went walkabout after the first musters when they got paid,got on the piss and never came back.Who footed the bill??. The good old Australian taxpayer thats who.I am sick and tired of all this poog bugger me bullshit.We are always paying for a lot of lazy anti social misfits who have got their hands out for money all the time including the now defunct ATSIC.That organization was ripping their own people off all the time,ie;artworks worth millions in the offices whilst little kids went hungry in the communities,everyone in ATSIC had a 4wd but there were no medicines in the communities.Why is that the fault of the white population,we have paid ATSIC but they never passed it on.You give me the runs with your poor blackfella attitude without providing proof just common misconseptions.I have seen it first hand over 30 years and i can back it up.So piss off with ya bullshit sister i aint taking it no more Angry
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #37 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:30pm
 
Wasn't ATSIC a creation of European immigrants? Just because they put a few aborigines in charge doesn't mean they weren't pulling the strings. The handouts are another European 'solution' for the problem that didn't work (apparently anyway, I'm hesitant to draw general conclusions based on a few unfortunate observations). You appear to be somehow 'blaming' the aboriginies for our solutions not working for them. Until we came along, they had no problem. Both the original problems and the failure of the solutions are ultimately down to us. I don't see how treating a group of people as slaves for a few generations and not allowing them to make decisions for themselves, then expecting them to 'integrate' as soon as we give them handouts is supposed to work. I realise I haven't come up with a better idea here, but I think not putting all the blame on the aborigines would be a good start.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #38 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 2:49pm
 
why are you referring to us as european immigrants.We were made to come here in the first place too weren't we.Anywhere else a conquered race is usually slaughtered but my ancestors were not the conqueres were they?,NO,We were enslaved to.
I blame the aboriginies for failing to get of their collective arses and helping themselves instead of expecting everything on a platter
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #39 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 3:01pm
 
why are you referring to us as european immigrants

Sorry, I just assumed you were

We were made to come here in the first place

Not my ancestors. I'm not descended from convicts. I doubt many are. Even if you are, you are still an immigrant, or at least a descendant of one.

Anywhere else a conquered race is usually slaughtered

Not in large scale invasions.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #40 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 3:38pm
 
Freediver ,

extremely well put..



  "Wasn't ATSIC a creation of European immigrants? Just because they put a few aborigines in charge doesn't mean they weren't pulling the strings. The handouts are another European 'solution' for the problem that didn't work (apparently anyway, I'm hesitant to draw general conclusions based on a few unfortunate observations). You appear to be somehow 'blaming' the aboriginies for our solutions not working for them. Until we came along, they had no problem. Both the original problems and the failure of the solutions are ultimately down to us. I don't see how treating a group of people as slaves for a few generations and not allowing them to make decisions for themselves, then expecting them to 'integrate' as soon as we give them handouts is supposed to work. I realise I haven't come up with a better idea here, but I think not putting all the blame on the aborigines would be a good start "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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this is exactly the point.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #41 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:07pm
 
allof boof,



tried to reply to your email..it says your user name does not exist!?

Do you want me to post your reply here..?Auzgurl
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #42 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 28th, 2007 at 3:01pm:
why are you referring to us as european immigrants

Sorry, I just assumed you were

We were made to come here in the first place

Not my ancestors. I'm not descended from convicts. I doubt many are. Even if you are, you are still an immigrant, or at least a descendant of one.

Anywhere else a conquered race is usually slaughtered

Not in large scale invasions.

cant you read auzgurl,i am not an immigrant,i was born here,from convict stock who were forced to come here.That is not immigrant status is it?You only have to go back 5-6 generations to be at convict time and most Aussies i know can go back that far
If the Dutch,Portugese or French had got here first it would be purely academic and we would not be having this conversation
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #43 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:18pm
 
Quote:
allof boof,



tried to reply to your email..it says your user name does not exist!?

Do you want me to post your reply here..?Auzgurl

I have received other emails ok.Post away if you want,have not said nothing i would back down from as long as you are going to answer my question
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #44 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:20pm
 
Immigrant, descendent of recent immigrants, whatever. It doesn't change the argument I was making. BTW I am not Auzgurl.

Auzgurl you may have to put an underscore in his name if you are using the PM system here, or just click on his name and do it via his profile.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #45 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:25pm
 
Ahem cough cough sorry bout that FD didnt have my glass eye in Roll Eyes
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Reply #46 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:30pm
 
Aloof..

The email worked after all...my mistake.

I did answer your question.

I was not implying anything aloof , about you in my reply to Freediver..I was agreeing with his overall sentiment..should have explained that a bit better.

I will clarify if you want me too.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #47 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:32pm
 
nah thats Cool thanks
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #48 - Mar 3rd, 2007 at 1:28pm
 
Freediver said

Quote:
Wasn't ATSIC a creation of European immigrants? Just because they put a few aborigines in charge doesn't mean they weren't pulling the strings.


After speaking with a few senior white fellas who worked in ATSIC, the inside story is that the body was dismantled because it was wielding too much power over government policy, and was influencing government negotiation with the private sector.

This makes sense, when you ask yourself, why did the government replease ATSIC with ICC? The new body has no power, only co-ordination within government departments. And almost all 'controllers' are non-indigenous.

Sure, there were abuses of power in ATSIC, but not enough to justify breaking up the organisation.

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'Sorry' songbook to stay in NSW schools
Reply #49 - Jul 11th, 2007 at 9:02pm
 
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Sorry-songbook-to-stay-in-NSW-schools/2007/07/11/1183833572226.html

The NSW government has refused to withdraw from state schools a controversial songbook with a song apologising to Aborigines - despite complaints it amounts to political propaganda.

Hamish East, the father of a pupil at Kiama Public School, on the state's south coast, approached the school principal after learning his son Brian was being taught the Sorry Song by West Australian composer Kerry Fletcher.

Mr East told News Ltd he was not opposed to reconciliation but the sorry issue was "emotive" and political, and should not be forced down the throat of a child.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #50 - Jul 11th, 2007 at 10:07pm
 
The father who complained was a councillor (local Council) and it is believed there was some political motivation behind it.

They are making a mountain out of a molehill - 8 year old children wouldn't think twice about the song and certainly not be brainwashed by it.  I listened to about a dozen elderly people on the radio today whinging about how our Education Department is trying to indoctrinate our children with left wing propaganda. 

It was pathetic.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #51 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 5:21pm
 
perhaps but if these children were forced to sing a song about how the stolen generation is a myth what would you say then?

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #52 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 5:27pm
 
That is a statement of fact not of perception or feeling. If it is demonstrably false and presented as fact I would object. The relative opposite would be a song about how you don't care what happened to people.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #53 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 6:05pm
 
Kids in infants and primary school sing all sorts of songs.  It's hardly likely that they would look into some deep and hidden meaning behind each song. 

But being realistic - it's a song of remembrance and sorrow that would indicate we understand the sadness of the indigenous people.  It's hardly likely to corrupt an 8 year old.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #54 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 7:22pm
 
Children dont understand. political issues should NOT be pushed onto children.
Im sickened by the whole issue.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #55 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 7:39pm
 
Quote:
Children dont understand. political issues should NOT be pushed onto children.
Im sickened by the whole issue.


Exactly.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #56 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 7:55pm
 
Quote:
The song by West Australian composer Kerry Fletcher was written in 1998 for Sorry Day festivities and included in the ABC Song Book, distributed to NSW primary schools by Scholastic. It is used by teachers in addition to the official curriculum.

The song features the words: "If we can say sorry to the people from this land, sing, sing loud, break through the silence, sing sorry across this land. We cry, we cry, their children were stolen, now no one knows why."


How are those few simple words in a song political and damaging?   I'm surprised at both you DT & Aus Nat for being so narrow minded about two lines in a song.

It hardly constitutes political brainwashing.  A small minded father has kicked up a huge fuss over such a triviality - obviously he wanted to make some sort of political statement.  It is only fact - their children were stolen.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #57 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 8:06pm
 
Quote:
If we can say sorry to the people from this land, sing, sing loud, break through the silence, sing sorry across this land. We cry, we cry, their children were stolen, now no one knows why."[/highlight]


And why should todays youth say sorry huh?

Quote:
How are those few simple words in a song political and damaging?


Its the principle dammit. Politics and children do not mix. the idea of school is to be educated on how to survive in the outside world, understand philosophies and gain education in areas such as mathematics and language in order to gain employment.

  Quote:
I'm surprised at both you DT & Aus Nat for being so narrow minded about two lines in a song.


Us narrow minded Shocked its not we who are corrupting the youth mrs socialist.


Quote:
It hardly constitutes political brainwashing.


How thick are you! typical leftie.

Quote:
A small minded father has kicked up a huge fuss over such a triviality - obviously he wanted to make some sort of political statement.


No, he didnt want his child to be brainwashed and made to feel guity about something that the kid knows nothing about or was even involved in. What next, will the schools expect our children to sing sorry songs for the Jews?

Quote:
It is only fact - their children were stolen.


No, their children were taken away from alcoholism, peadeophilia, poverty and were educated.
Perhaps too educated.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #58 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 8:14pm
 
Your standard xenophobic response Aus Nat.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #59 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 8:22pm
 
mantra wrote on Jul 13th, 2007 at 8:14pm:
Your standard xenophobic response Aus Nat.  


Ha ha ha. lost for words ay  Grin
And heres your mistake, Abo's arent foreigners. Though i still do hate them. If they'd only shut their mouths, id stop.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #60 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 8:40pm
 
mantra wrote on Jul 13th, 2007 at 7:55pm:
Quote:
The song by West Australian composer Kerry Fletcher was written in 1998 for Sorry Day festivities and included in the ABC Song Book, distributed to NSW primary schools by Scholastic. It is used by teachers in addition to the official curriculum.

The song features the words: "If we can say sorry to the people from this land, sing, sing loud, break through the silence, sing sorry across this land. We cry, we cry, their children were stolen, now no one knows why."


How are those few simple words in a song political and damaging?   I'm surprised at both you DT & Aus Nat for being so narrow minded about two lines in a song.

It hardly constitutes political brainwashing.  A small minded father has kicked up a huge fuss over such a triviality - obviously he wanted to make some sort of political statement.  It is only fact - their children were stolen.


Mantra, I understand your concerns.

I understand that you think kids will not know the meaning of these songs therefore, they will not be affected by these songs.


I think otherwise.


They can be used to influence other people. For example, they can be used for political campaigns and portrayed in the media.

Future leftist can also use this as ammunition. This is what they will say... "you sang 'sorry Aboriginals' in pre-school.... therefore, you will be hypocritial if you take a different stance now... etc etc

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #61 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 8:47pm
 
Quote:
[quote author=DonaldTrump link=1172229352/60#60 date=1184323213]
Future leftist can also use this as ammunition. This is what they will say... "you sang 'sorry Aboriginals' in pre-school.... therefore, you will be hypocritial if you take a different stance now... etc etc


Of course the lefties would- they are of low intelligence. How could you call someone hypocritical for their views in adulthood, because they ''chanted'' the sorry song when they were children.
THEY WERE CHILDREN.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #62 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 9:55am
 
political issues should NOT be pushed onto children

Any song can be turned into a political issue. All songs that can be sung contain a message. You just need someone to object to that message and it becomes an issue. We shouldn't let minority groups stop our children singing songs. That is imposing on our children political issues they do not understand. Let them sing and stop whinging about it.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #63 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 2:39pm
 
Quote:
[quote author=freediver link=1172229352/60#62 date=1184370917]
We shouldn't let minority groups stop our children singing songs.


Its the minority groups that are making them chant the songs.

Quote:
That is imposing on our children political issues they do not understand. Let them sing and stop whinging about it.


How? whats wrong with regular kids songs such as that one about sheep shearing. No political message there.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #64 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 7:45pm
 
besides the stolen gernartion is a myth so we are also lying to them :p
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #65 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 9:05pm
 
I admit what the white settlers did to the Aborigines is disgusting and I willingly concede that they were the original owners and inhabitants of this continent. But I hate the way they always try to make you feel horribly guilty. They refuse to move on and as a result they drag the rest of us into their pool of depression. And I also hate the way they continually try to get the High Courts to grant them their native titles. I always worry when that happens. What if that happens in my local area? Does that mean that they'll have the power to kick me out of my home, bulldoze it and build a casino in its place? Ridiculous I know, but if it can happen in America, it can happen here.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #66 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 9:19pm
 
i have the complete history of conflicts between aborigianls and white settlers. what the whites did to the abo's was no worse than in any other war. the first few decades of conflict was mostly started by aboriginals.

anyway we are supposed to be saying sorry not for that but for the "stolen generation" which is a lie. the government never had a policy to specifically target aboriginal children. they saw children in sub human conditions and took them away from their parents as they did and still do with whites.

not one court case has ever been successful in proving being a stolen child.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #67 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 1:21am
 
As much as we have our differences Pender, i like you. Smiley
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #68 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 5:11pm
 
Its the minority groups that are making them chant the songs.

No it isn't. It's not just the aboriginies asking for an apology. They tend to take take a back seat in the sorry movement. It's a majority of the general public.

How? whats wrong with regular kids songs such as that one about sheep shearing. No political message there.

What about the line about the boss dude smelling like a whore?

But I hate the way they always try to make you feel horribly guilty.

It's not the aboriginies doing that. No-one can force you to feel guilty anyway. They can just make you connect with your true feelings.

And I also hate the way they continually try to get the High Courts to grant them their native titles.

You hate the way they 'use' nthe justice system to recieve justice? Heaven forbid.

Does that mean that they'll have the power to kick me out of my home,

No.

anyway we are supposed to be saying sorry not for that but for the "stolen generation" which is a lie.

I suspect stolen wages are a bigger issue.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #69 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 7:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 15th, 2007 at 5:11pm:
And I also hate the way they continually try to get the High Courts to grant them their native titles.

You hate the way they 'use' the justice system to recieve justice? Heaven forbid.

Does that mean that they'll have the power to kick me out of my home,

No.



I'm not opposed to the Aborigines getting Justice, I just think they're going about it the wrong way.

And like I said before if the American Indians can take over people's houses and build casinos over them, then the Aborigines can do the same here.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #70 - Jul 16th, 2007 at 11:40am
 
I'm not opposed to the Aborigines getting Justice, I just think they're going about it the wrong way.

How else can they go about it? Do you think they should blow something up instead of using the justice system?

And like I said before if the American Indians can take over people's houses and build casinos over them, then the Aborigines can do the same here.

You sure the American Indians can do that? BTW, the aboriginies cannot do the same here.
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Payout a win for the Stolen
Reply #71 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 12:10pm
 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22175063-2702,00.html

SOUTH Australia has been ordered to pay $525,000 to a Stolen Generations victim in a breakthrough compensation victory.

The compensation win is for Aborigines taken from their families.

The damages award not only establishes a potent judicial precedent, but will intensify pressure on the commonwealth and states to establish statutory compensation schemes for Stolen Generations victims.

The scope of the order by South Australian Supreme Court judge Thomas Gray stunned legal observers and reversed years of disappointment for indigenous litigants.

Since the release of the 1997 Bringing Them Home report on the Stolen Generations, only Tasmania has agreed to pay direct compensation to victims.

In a strongly worded judgment, Justice Gray yesterday found that Bruce Allan Trevorrow, now 50, was falsely imprisoned and denied the duty of care owed to him after he was taken from his parents in 1957, aged 13 months.

The state was liable to compensate Mr Trevorrow for its "misfeasance in public office", the judge said.

Justice Gray pointedly contrasted how Mr Trevorrow had "struggled" with depression and other setbacks, while his siblings, who remained with their natural family, had been able to "achieve their potential".
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #72 - Aug 3rd, 2007 at 3:01pm
 
Who cares?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #73 - Aug 3rd, 2007 at 5:05pm
 
ok now one proven "stolen child"

i reckon i could find more white kids taken unlawfully.

besides there is always room for the judge being biased and his precedent being overuled at later date.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #74 - Aug 3rd, 2007 at 5:08pm
 
Are you seriously suggesting it didn't happen? It was government policy. No-one in power is denying it.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #75 - Aug 3rd, 2007 at 9:35pm
 
I think the payment didnt go far enough..$500,00.00 for a life time of misery?

Its about time.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #76 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 1:08am
 
oceanz wrote on Aug 3rd, 2007 at 9:35pm:
I think the payment didnt go far enough..$500,00.00 for a life time of misery?

Its about time.


ARE YOU THAT STUPID!?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #77 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 1:28am
 
Oceans, I've been pretty sad at times during my life too.
Whats say they give me just $100,000, sound ok ?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #78 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 1:13pm
 
Constructive criticism please Nelson, not insults.

Sprint if your suffering was caused by misfeasance in public office, you would have a case.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #79 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 2:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 3rd, 2007 at 5:08pm:
Are you seriously suggesting it didn't happen? It was government policy. No-one in power is denying it.



are you serious yourself.

howard refers to the 'stolen generation' et al as black armband history.

if the government had admitted a policy specifically targeting aboriginal children with intent wipe out the aborginal race as many leftists suggest, it would have have to have said more than sorry.

i am not denying that in cases there were children taken from their families who should not have been, but i do not bvelieve that the government had a policy aiming at de childrenising aboriginals.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #80 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 2:32pm
 
if the government had admitted a policy specifically targeting aboriginal children with intent wipe out the aborginal race as many leftists suggest

I've never heard that suggestion. It doesn't even make sense.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #81 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 9:27pm
 
that is exactly what historians like henry reynalds and films like rabbit proof fence suggest
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #82 - Aug 5th, 2007 at 1:28pm
 
I've seen the film and I didn't get that impression. Maybe they wanted to encourage 'integration' into our culture and thus the destruction of their own, but not the race. If you take someone's children away, you increase the liklihood that they'll have more.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #83 - Aug 5th, 2007 at 1:51pm
 
AUShole wrote on Feb 25th, 2007 at 11:00pm:
Aboriginals can cope with rules and regulations. They have had 40,000 years of practice. What do you think all those stories they tell are about? Their social system is far more complex than "our world's rules and regulations", and they don't even write it down.


Really? What percent of the prison population is attributed to 1% of the total Australian population.
I have a huge amount of respect for the few Aborigines I know that deserve it. They are not a lost cause, and I don't agree with some the racist comments here, but facts are facts, they need to adjust to modern times now. White Australians are not just going to say "sorry mate, have your country back and we will go back to Britain". For one, if we did the Muslims would invade, and I can assure you there would be no Dole, Interest free loans, Health cover, or apologies then.
"Sorry" is going to solve nothing, get some self respect, get some respect for others, get a farkin life and shut the bugger up, look in your own backyard in regards to solving the percieved problems you face.
AUShole, I commend your defence of the aborigines, some people have some pretty harsh opinions that are outright racist. Seriously though, they don't do much to help themselves, blame the past as much as you want it will not change the future, that is up to the individual.
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Billions stolen from Aborigines: report
Reply #84 - Sep 5th, 2007 at 6:47pm
 
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Billions-stolen-from-Aborigines-report/2007/09/05/1188783298078.html

Governments across Australia withheld billions of dollars from Aboriginal workers during the last century, according to the author of a controversial report.

Dr Ros Kidd launched her report Hard Labour, Stolen Wages in Brisbane and called on governments to repay the money withheld from thousands of Aborigines.

"Overall, we are looking at billions of dollars nationally, which has never been accounted for," she told AAP.

"That is wages that were supposedly paid to people but the government said 'we'll look after it for you' and that is in child endowments which the Queensland government was just stockpiling and kids were dying of malnutrition."

Dr Kidd said portions of wages, pensions and child endowments were paid into trust accounts but never reached their rightful owners.

Instead it was transferred into public revenue or disappeared through other means.

She said the practice was widespread and had been brought to the attention of the governments of the day through internal reports and investigations.

"The federal government knew that missions, pastoral stations and indeed state governments were making a fortune out of endowments and pensions," she said.

"It happened right across Australia, except perhaps in Tasmania.

"In the Northern Territory and the north of Western Australia, most of the workers were not even paid."

Dr Kidd also attacked the Queensland government's response to the issue.

She said a $55 million fund established in 2002 to pay reparations to those affected by the practice between 1897 and the 1970s only covered about 10 per cent of the money owed to workers.

Only $19.6 million of the fund was paid and Dr Kidd said many had opted not to enter a claim for the fund because the money paid was insufficient.

"A lot of the reasons for the low take of the offer was because it was such an insulting amount, to offer $4,000 maximum for a lifetime's missing money is just ludicrous," she said.

"There are many who refused to sign away their legal rights just to get $2,000 or $4,000 now."

The Queensland government is currently considering whether to divide the remainder of the fund between existing claimants or to use the money to establish a foundation that benefits the wider Aboriginal community.

Dr Kidd is a consultant historian who has given evidence in native title claims and to public inquiries, including the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission's 1996 inquiry into underpaid wages.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #85 - Sep 5th, 2007 at 8:40pm
 
Quote:
oceanz wrote on Aug 3rd, 2007 at 9:35pm:
I think the payment didnt go far enough..$500,00.00 for a life time of misery?

Its about time.


ARE YOU THAT STUPID!?



NO "nelson" far from it. Smiley
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Re: Billions stolen from Aborigines: report
Reply #86 - Sep 7th, 2007 at 12:37am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2007 at 6:47pm:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Billions-stolen-from-Aborigines-report/2007/09/05/1188783298078.html

Governments across Australia withheld billions of dollars from Aboriginal workers during the last century, according to the author of a controversial report.

Dr Ros Kidd launched her report Hard Labour, Stolen Wages in Brisbane and called on governments to repay the money withheld from thousands of Aborigines.

"Overall, we are looking at billions of dollars nationally, which has never been accounted for," she told AAP.

"That is wages that were supposedly paid to people but the government said 'we'll look after it for you' and that is in child endowments which the Queensland government was just stockpiling and kids were dying of malnutrition."

Dr Kidd said portions of wages, pensions and child endowments were paid into trust accounts but never reached their rightful owners.

Instead it was transferred into public revenue or disappeared through other means.

She said the practice was widespread and had been brought to the attention of the governments of the day through internal reports and investigations.

"The federal government knew that missions, pastoral stations and indeed state governments were making a fortune out of endowments and pensions," she said.

"It happened right across Australia, except perhaps in Tasmania.

"In the Northern Territory and the north of Western Australia, most of the workers were not even paid."

Dr Kidd also attacked the Queensland government's response to the issue.

She said a $55 million fund established in 2002 to pay reparations to those affected by the practice between 1897 and the 1970s only covered about 10 per cent of the money owed to workers.

Only $19.6 million of the fund was paid and Dr Kidd said many had opted not to enter a claim for the fund because the money paid was insufficient.

"A lot of the reasons for the low take of the offer was because it was such an insulting amount, to offer $4,000 maximum for a lifetime's missing money is just ludicrous," she said.

"There are many who refused to sign away their legal rights just to get $2,000 or $4,000 now."

The Queensland government is currently considering whether to divide the remainder of the fund between existing claimants or to use the money to establish a foundation that benefits the wider Aboriginal community.

Dr Kidd is a consultant historian who has given evidence in native title claims and to public inquiries, including the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission's 1996 inquiry into underpaid wages.



lets go furtehr lets give back all money to all the families of every person in australia who wasnt paid.

no, wait give money to every person in the world who has been treated unfairly. Also lets solve world poverty and end all wars Smiley

the problem of not getting paid is not a strictly aboriginal one...
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #87 - Sep 7th, 2007 at 6:26pm
 
Let me get this straight - you think we should deny people justice in case the idea of justice starts to catch on?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #88 - Sep 8th, 2007 at 10:35am
 
AUShole wrote on Feb 25th, 2007 at 10:40pm:
DT, you have no respect for the indigenous population (your Abo reference is offensive). What have they done to you?

Have you ever sat down with an Aboriginal elder and spoken about how his family was broken up by slave traders (in the 19th Century) or by the Protector up until the 1970s? Saying sorry is not admitting that you were to blame for the attrocity, it means that you understand what has happened, and express allegiance with their cause.

No decent elder wants compensation. They want recognition that Australia, as a democratic country and a signatory to the UN, committed crimes against its own people.

I live in a town where a third of the population is indigenous. Does it strike you as a problem when most of them live in poverty? That their lifespan is barely half of yours? Do you think they enjoy living with the stigma of being bludgers?

Most of the aboriginal people I have met are kind and considerate, and have a greater respect for their family than a majority of Australians. The problem is that they are treated like second class citizens, given no opportunity to succeed, and are manipulated by bureaucrats. Is it any wonder they turn to alcohol and start beating each other?



I agree: that most of the Aboriginal People I have met are really cool people. The Aboriginal people in the city have a reputation for being out of hand, but it is entirely understandable as they have been denied access to wealth and opportunity that leaves them with, virtually/seemingly, wasted lives.

In a society that purposely overwhelms their hopes, dreams and dignity the least you can do is give them respect for standing up for their own person and culture. If you can't you are an insecure monster who hides behind an illusion of strength.

To look at the way they have been treated breaks your heart.

I voted for the PM to say sorry as He/She is the appropriate person. When it will happen is another question.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #89 - Sep 12th, 2007 at 6:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2007 at 6:26pm:
Let me get this straight - you think we should deny people justice in case the idea of justice starts to catch on?


er no, i just dont like the idea of racism being the motivator for "justice", why should aboriginal people get any more attention than anyone else.

instead of paying back an injustice of almost a century ago, how about solving current ones.
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Fed govt 'shows contempt for Aborigines'
Reply #90 - Sep 12th, 2007 at 6:09pm
 
If you are aware of any current injustices, sure go ahead and solve them. That is no rational argument against delivering justice to the aboriginal people. Racism is not the motivation for the delivering of justice. It was the original motivation for denying them justice. To deny them justice in the past because they are aboriginal, then deny them jsutice again in the present because they are aboriginal, just compounds the racism.

The reason this only applies to aboriginal people is because the injustice is so well documented and was so widespread. No-one would have kept records of how they denied white people justice, nor even attempted to do what was done to the aboriginal people.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Fed-govt-shows-contempt-for-Aborigines/2007/09/13/1189276890481.html

The Howard government has shown its contempt for the rights of Aboriginal people by voting against an United Nations declaration, Northern Territory Labor Senator Trish Crossin says.

The UN General Assembly is expected to adopt the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples after more than 20 years in the drafting.

It addresses both individual and collective rights, cultural rights and identity, rights to education, health, employment and language.

The declaration outlaws discrimination against indigenous people and promotes their full participation in all matters that concern them.

The federal government says it will not support it because the current draft is unworkable and divisive.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #91 - Sep 18th, 2007 at 4:56pm
 
Kiss greenpeace sucks
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Vanishing languages alarm experts
Reply #92 - Sep 19th, 2007 at 10:48am
 
http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Vanishing-languages-alarm-experts/2007/09/19/1189881544596.html

Linguists alarmed at the unceasing extinction of many indigenous languages identified five global "hot spots" where the problem is worst, led by northern Australia and a region of South America.

The linguists are part of the Enduring Voices project that seeks to document and revitalise languages slipping toward oblivion, often spoken by indigenous peoples like Australia's aborigines whose cultures were trampled by settlers.

David Harrison of Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania, the project's co-director, said there are 6,992 recognised distinct languages worldwide. He said on average one language vanishes every two weeks, often as its last elderly speakers perish.
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Re: Fed govt 'shows contempt for Aborigines'
Reply #93 - Sep 19th, 2007 at 6:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 12th, 2007 at 6:09pm:
If you are aware of any current injustices, sure go ahead and solve them. That is no rational argument against delivering justice to the aboriginal people. Racism is not the motivation for the delivering of justice. It was the original motivation for denying them justice. To deny them justice in the past because they are aboriginal, then deny them jsutice again in the present because they are aboriginal, just compounds the racism.

The reason this only applies to aboriginal people is because the injustice is so well documented and was so widespread. No-one would have kept records of how they denied white people justice, nor even attempted to do what was done to the aboriginal people.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Fed-govt-shows-contempt-for-Aborigines/2007/09/13/1189276890481.html

The Howard government has shown its contempt for the rights of Aboriginal people by voting against an United Nations declaration, Northern Territory Labor Senator Trish Crossin says.

The UN General Assembly is expected to adopt the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples after more than 20 years in the drafting.

It addresses both individual and collective rights, cultural rights and identity, rights to education, health, employment and language.

The declaration outlaws discrimination against indigenous people and promotes their full participation in all matters that concern them.

The federal government says it will not support it because the current draft is unworkable and divisive.


the federal government has an issue with only one part if the declaration and that is the right of "self determinantion" for Indigenous Peoples. Australia was one of only 4 governments (Canada, New Zealand and the USA) in the entire assembly to oppose the declaration.

I cannot see how the australian government could ever grant "self determination" to one particular group of citizens without creating a sepparate state within a state.

the declaration is non binding so nothing will change anyway.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #94 - Sep 19th, 2007 at 6:29pm
 
Maybe it means on an individual basis - something we should all have a right to anyway.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #95 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 4:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 19th, 2007 at 6:29pm:
Maybe it means on an individual basis - something we should all have a right to anyway.


it doesnt, check it out.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #96 - Oct 3rd, 2007 at 8:35pm
 
I suppose it's because of the "stolen generation" or the "injustices" handed out to them by the whites that some get blind drunk and molest their children is it?
Or is it the whites fault because they gave the aborigines alcohol.
If a white man molested a 10 year old child, chances are, his own peers would attempt to near kill him, As would most aborigines who have grown up in the city, would the government be wrong to make the decision to remove certain cases from their situation for this reason, ignoring the fact they are living in sea of rubbish and Emu Export cans?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #97 - Oct 6th, 2007 at 6:59pm
 
merou wrote on Oct 3rd, 2007 at 8:35pm:
I suppose it's because of the "stolen generation" or the "injustices" handed out to them by the whites that some get blind drunk and molest their children is it?
Or is it the whites fault because they gave the aborigines alcohol.
If a white man molested a 10 year old child, chances are, his own peers would attempt to near kill him, As would most aborigines who have grown up in the city, would the government be wrong to make the decision to remove certain cases from their situation for this reason, ignoring the fact they are living in sea of rubbish and Emu Export cans?

You are obviously not aware that prisons are full of white child molesters,  this is not an aboriginal only problem or even a problem in which aboriginal people are over represented. You only need to read the newspapers to see the continuing flood of supposedly respectable white citizens being arrested for child porn. And many of these people are molesting children while others are aware or ignoring the obvious so your comment that white people would not tolerate this behaviour from their peers is quite frankly a crock.
Much of the institutionalised child abuse in the church was known about and continued for decades with no action taken.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #98 - Oct 6th, 2007 at 8:07pm
 
I agree Ian- The child molestation problem is not simply an Indigenous problem- it contaminates all cultures and you are right to point out the child pornography rings being infiltrated on a monotonously regular basis these days, mostly consisting of white offenders. The internet is  a very convenient tool in these situations.

A child abuser comes from all walks of life and can look like your friendly innocent looking next door neighbor, he has not a trypical look or face.

Im afraid the intervention in the Nortghern Territiry of late has unfairly branded Ind. pple as the main perpetrators of these crimes against theyre children and thats not to downplay the seriousness of what is happening in these communities- but it does give a rather unbalanced perception.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #99 - Oct 6th, 2007 at 10:03pm
 
To take this one step further, one of the biggest problems has been 'sex tourism' - white people going into these communities to molest children or buy sex from underage girls. It's a lot cheaper than a flight to SE Asia. Often a bit of petrol or alcohol is enough. Many mine sites had a policy of simply firing people when they became aware that this was happening. To suggest that it is some kind of 'aboriginal problem' is either racist or ignorant. Add to this the complete absence of law enforcement and the very recent history of forced, unpaid labour (slavery) and it is no wonder that these communities have serious issues. Not that I in any way excuse the behaviour of black child molestors, but lets not turn this into another chance to add salt to the wound. Obviously the police are going to hunt down the offenders that are known to the communities before they try to track down the strangers who passed through the settlements over the years. And it's about time they did so.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #100 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 8:39am
 
ian wrote on Oct 6th, 2007 at 6:59pm:
[quote author=merou link=1172229352/90#96 date=1191407747]
You are obviously not aware that prisons are full of white child molesters,


On the contrary, Ive been in prison and I am very aware of the numbers of rock spiders in there. I am also aware of what happens to them should they stumble into mainstream, and furthermore what happens to them in the community should certain people, black or white, find out.
I was not implying that this is solely an aboriginal problem, for it is most certainly more of a white problem. I guess my comments were more of statement regarding the condition of aboriginal communities and all that outright bullsh+t that gets blamed on the happenings of yesteryear.
Ample opportunity is given all Australians today black, white, yellow....whatever, the onus lies on the individual to take some responsibility for their own life.
Do you really think that if whites had not carried out the undeniable atrocities in the past, that the aboriginies would be any more responsible than they are today?...... I think not.
When I write these comments I feel for the aborigines I know who are responsible, hard working members of the community, they are the few who should be praised and stood on a pedestal for their ability to get on with the reality of life.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #101 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 9:57am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2007 at 10:03pm:
To take this one step further, one of the biggest problems has been 'sex tourism' - white people going into these communities to molest children or buy sex from underage girls. It's a lot cheaper than a flight to SE Asia. Often a bit of petrol or alcohol is enough. Many mine sites had a policy of simply firing people when they became aware that this was happening. To suggest that it is some kind of 'aboriginal problem' is either racist or ignorant.


You are completely right Freediver- the amount of exploitation of young girls in the community in this area is horrenedous.

For instance a taxidriver will accept oral sex in lieu of payment for a taxiride (sorry if that offends) from a young Ind girl or sex oral sex in exchange for a cigerette or maybe  a packet.
Petrol is also used as payment for these "services". These young girls start at age 12. The main receivers of these "services" are white males. A friend of mine a 68 yr old white male was offered oral sex in exchange for a cigerrette, the girl was no more than 17. Preganacy arising from these transactions is common. And it is not the white mles who are outcast and touted as "whores" it is the young girls.

Drugs are rampant and white men here grow specifically to supply the Ind community- so prolific is the trade. Sex is also used here as well.

There is no active  law enforcement here and the Police are also very aware of the situtaion

merou for you to try to wipe the slate clean in the history and current problems of Ind pple by simply saying  that blaming practices of "yesteryear" as an  excuse for not getting on with their lives only shows how you couldnt be further from the truth if you tried. Your comments are based in very entrenched ignorance of most of the European community.

Ill bet your great Granddfather was a descendant of the first fleet if you care to dig  and Ill bet members of your family have living memories of his life. This is how recent first contact was. Many many Ind pple have living memory of atrocities that happened to their family- it is not some "long ago" time.

Ind Pple have only been allowed to vote since the 60s- that is only a bit over 40 yrs ago. Up until then they were cared for by the Govt in a very paternalistic and suffocating Instutionalised way of life.

It was generally thought they could not fend for themsleves. So they were raised on welfare- wore "dog tags" (like animals) and denied every basic human right afforded to the rest of mainstream.

Only in prisons do they know what this feels like but they(prisoners) eventually escape that life to return to mainstream Ind pple never do . A stolen identitiy and isolation form the rest of mainstream- is that any way for a human to find respectability- a decent job ,hope for the future- to build a life for his family?


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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #102 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 12:02pm
 
Do you really think that if whites had not carried out the undeniable atrocities in the past, that the aboriginies would be any more responsible than they are today?...... I think not.

Of course they would be better off. If you deny people just long enough, they grow accustomed to injustice. We have taught these people that there is nothing for them in white society beyond slavery. You can't expect them to unlearn that overnight just because we suddenly decide to take the moral high ground. At the very least, they would have more money, land and other assets of their own. There are a lot of assumptions behind the purchase of land. One of them is that the society you live in is always going to protect your right to it.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #103 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:36pm
 
oceanz wrote on Oct 7th, 2007 at 9:57am:
merou for you to try to wipe the slate clean in the history and current problems of Ind pple by simply saying  that blaming practices of "yesteryear" as an  excuse for not getting on with their lives only shows how you couldnt be further from the truth if you tried. Your comments are based in very entrenched ignorance of most of the European community.

I am not saying to "wipe the slate clean" and no OB my ancestry is yugoslav - british,  but I understand the point you were making. It's ok for people such as yourselves who have good intentions in regards to compensating the aborigines, but the reality is, the white people and wanna be blacks who are influencing the aborigines to fight for their rights to compensation are the ones who are getting their pockets lined.
I work in oil & gas exploration, we have to negotiate our exploration and drill permits with "aborigines", we offer millions in health and education funding, because my boss is sick of handing CASH over and still going to these remote communities and seeing derelict 3 year old houses with drunkards and filth lying everywhere. They (NEGOTIATORS) don't want health and education they want cash.
You can sit on your high horse and say sorry for as long as you want, and in ten years time real aborigines will still be happy with a roof over their head, a belly full of food and few beers, and the half casts quarter cast and do gooders will still be whinging about the greivances of a time gone by.
The Aborigines  and white blacks are given every opportunity to succeed in life, large companies even offer extensive training to Aborigine and Torres Strait Islanders resulting in high paying jobs, government give health and education benefits and low interest loans.
Yes some terrible things were done in the past, but the future lies in the actions they take today to make a better life for themselves. You can't blame the stolen generation for the lack of work ethic today.
This is my last post on this subject as I am sick feeling like my comments are construed as racist and disrespectful to the few true aboriginal friends that I have and respect.

ALL MEN ARE EQUAL, EQUAL IN RIGHTS AND EQUAL IN RESPONSIBILTY, NO MAN DESERVES MORE OR LESS, BASED ON HISTORY. THE FUTURE LIES WITH THE INDIVIDUALS ACTIONS OF TODAY.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #104 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:43pm
 
Don't you think that compensation for the injustices of recent history would go a long way towards encouraging aboriginies to participate more productively in modern society? If a person has worked there arse off and not been given a cent in return, or there parents have had the same thing happen, they are obviously going to be dubious about 'new opportunities.'
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #105 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 8:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:43pm:
Don't you think that compensation for the injustices of recent history would go a long way towards encouraging aboriginies to participate more productively in modern society


nope!
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Pre-1788 Aborigines 'lived in houses'
Reply #106 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 8:26pm
 
So a man who was forced to work without pay should be expected to start working again if he wants to build up any assets to pass onto his children and grandchildren? Many aboriginies probably saw the remote communities as a way to escape slave labour. The legacy of that is probably a big psychological barrier to members of those communities entering the modern workforce. That's ignoring the social justice side of the argument.

The message being sent is "white scoiety took and took from your ancestors, leaving them nothing at all, not even the land they traditionally relied upon, to pass onto you and your siblings. Now they have decided to be 'fair' and let you start again from the bottom. All you have to do is get through 16 years of education with no financial or social support from your relatives, relying on an assumption that you will get the 'fair go' denied to your parents, and you can be a doctor or a lawyer just like them. Don't you want to be part of the justice system that left your family with nothing?"

There is a well documented psychological phenomenon called 'learned helplessness.' If you take away justice and self determination for long enough, people will eventually accept it, then lose hope, then eventually they will know nothing else. This is not like a few years in a POW camp - a comparison which was made earlier in the thread. This was over generations - long enough to lose cultural knowledge and values. It did not start with sit down money. It started with taking away the option of whether to work and what work to do, and taking away the fruits of their labour. Follow this up with money for not doing any work, and you teach people that their own choices and their own hard work make no difference to their well being. A return to self determination will not correct this in any reasonable amount of time. This is because it is not a rational, objective view of their options that is missing. What is missing is faith in the system they are being asked to join. That faith can only be restored (perhaps a better term is created) with justice. It is easy for us to brush of the crimes committed a mere few decades ago, because we weren't the victims. If we want to make a real difference to the problems we have created, we must start with justice. If you skip this step, everything else you do smacks of hypocrisy.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Pre1788-Aborigines-lived-in-houses/2007/10/08/1191695802036.html

A new book has disputed the claim that Aborigines did not build houses or live in villages before the white settlement of Australia.

University of Queensland researcher, Associate Professor Paul Memmott, worked with indigenous communities in the state's north-west in the 1970s.

After completing honours studies in architecture, Dr Memmott pursued a doctorate in anthropology so he could study Aborigines' connection with their homes and the bush.

A new book - Gunyah, Goondie + Wurley - is the result of his research, based on oral histories, explorers' diaries, paintings, photographic collections and century-old newspapers.

Dr Memmott said Australia's early explorers had mistakenly given the impression that Aborigines were purely nomadic and lived only in makeshift huts or lean-tos.

This was because the explorers often made their observations in favourable weather, when Aborigines were on the move.

But he said there was evidence that some Aborigines built more permanent shelters than first thought.

"Research shows a repertoire of different shelters were built in different styles in particular regions depending on the climate - a good example being the durable dome structures found throughout the country," Dr Memmott said.

"In the rainforest area up around Cairns (in north Queensland) where there was heavy rain for much of the year, people built domes out of (native) lawyer cane with palm leaf thatching.

"If we go to the west coast of Tasmania we get reports of domes there, with triple layers of cladding and insulation.

"And then in western Victoria there's a classical case of circular stone walls of up to a metre or so high and then dome roofs over the top with sometimes earth or sod cladding."

Christian missionaries who came to Aboriginal communities also often drew on the materials used by the local people to make their own homes.

Dr Memmott has received a federal research grant of $770,000 to look at the ecological and physical makeup of spinifex grass and its potential use in buildings for Aboriginal people.

He said he hoped further research in the area would not only clear up the historical record, but help inform designers working on current housing problems.

"There's lessons about Aboriginal housing to be learned, and there are more potential innovative ideas that could be generated from such understandings," Dr Memmott said.
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Govt rejects stolen generation compo
Reply #107 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 4:26pm
 
http://news.smh.com.au/govt-rejects-stolen-generation-compo/20080107-1khe.html

The federal government has rejected calls by indigenous leaders to establish a billion dollar compensation fund for victims of the stolen generation.

One leader - Stolen Generation Victoria chair Lyn Austin - has called on victims to consider suing the federal government if it failed to establish a fund, the Herald Sun reported.

Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin said it was more important to focus on closing the gap in life expectancy between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians.

"We think the way forward is to tackle today's problems of indigenous disadvantage, to focus on closing the 17 year life expectancy gap, building indigenous economic independence. That's where we think our efforts and resources should be focused," Ms Macklin told Sky News.

She also rejected suggestions the apology would be hollow without compensation.

"We think that the point of the national apology really is to provide a bridge of respect between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians."

Ms Macklin does not believe the apology will open the government to compensation claims.

Stolen Generation Alliance chairwoman Christine King says the fund should be more than just financial compensation.

"We believe that there is a fund that should be set up, it's not just about compensation ... some people want a healing centre, some people want cultural centres," she told ABC Radio.

"We are not trying to claim anything other than what is the right of the Aboriginal peoples that were a part of and are part of the stolen generations."

The Australian Greens described the government's response as "disingenuous" and said they were disappointed the government moved so quickly to rule out reparations.

"The minister is supposed to be consulting over this issue yet she has already ruled out compensation," Senator Rachael Siewert said in a statement.

"I would have expected it to be one of the issues on the table as the Rudd government begins a new dialogue with indigenous communities about disadvantage, representation and indigenous rights."
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PM to say sorry to Aborigines on Feb 12
Reply #108 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 11:40am
 
http://news.smh.com.au/pm-to-say-sorry-to-aborigines-on-feb-12/20080128-1oi5.html

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will reportedly make an apology to Aboriginal people when federal parliament opens next month.

On Australia Day Mr Rudd named race relations between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians as one of the nation's great challenges.

Furthermore, he told guests at the Lodge on Saturday night he wanted indigenous people to be "full participants" in society, rather than marginalised Australians, News Ltd reports.

It says while Mr Rudd has ruled out paying compensation to Aboriginal people who were removed from their families as part of the stolen generation, moves are underway for the "sorry" declaration to come on February 12 when new MPs formally take their seats in parliament.

The former Howard government refused to apologise to the stolen generation, a decision that marred race relations but gained the Liberal leader widespread backing, News Ltd says.

Meanwhile public misunderstanding still exists about an apology to indigenous Australians and what it will mean for the nation, co-chair of the National Sorry Day Committee Helen Moran says.

Ms Moran said the Howard government's scaremongering had fuelled misunderstanding about the apology among some Australians.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #109 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 9:40pm
 
Apologies......I have not read the Thread......too long.  What is wrong with:

"As the current PM, I am sorry about, and apologise for the manner in which our Aboriginals have been treated in the past. [Here insert all sorts of examples.]

Having said that, I have also to acknowledge and emphasise that contemporary Australia and its Government played no part in any of that and therefore have none, nor accept any responsibility for it.

[Then broaden discussion on the examples.]"

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #110 - Jan 29th, 2008 at 4:01pm
 
from crikey:

Earlier this week, Member for O'Connor, Wilson 'Iron Bar' Tuckey, not only couldn't stomach an apology, he got his knickers in a knot over the news Aboriginal dancers are rumoured to be opening the 42nd Parliament.

Tuckey, apparently off his medication again, reportedly told ABC Radio earlier this week: "I'm horrified and concerned that we're going to turn the Parliament of Australia into a dance parlour.... Why not put neon signs on the top of Parliament, you know dances every Friday night."

You'd think it was precisely the sort of comments that represent a 'dark Liberal past', thus precisely the sort of stuff the party leadership would try to distance itself from. No such luck.

Opposition leader Brendan Nelson told media that an apology to the Stolen Generations shouldn't be a Labor priority. He repeated Howard's no brainer line about "today's generation apologising for the mistakes of past generations past..."

Nelson urged everyone "not to lose sight of the fact that there are fair dinkum everyday working Australians who are concerned about this issue but are also concerned about the cost of their homes, putting petrol in their car and buying food for their kids."

His use of the term 'fair dinkum' aside, Nelson is, of course, trying to appear pragmatic. But pragmatism surely would involve delivering an apology -- genuine or otherwise,­ if for no other reason than to get the issue off the agenda and allow us all to move on.

So Nelson is not being pragmatic. Like those before him, and some still beside him, he's just playing politics.

It's worth noting that Malcolm Turnbull, during his pitch to become leader, accepted that it was ridiculous to continue to refuse to apologise to members of the Stolen Generations. Do us all a favour Malcolm, and tap that ageing hippie on the shoulder before he does so much damage to your party that even Corey Delaney won't be able to save it.

Fortunately for Nelson, any damage he may inflict on the Liberals will probably be off-set by the fact that Warren Mundine is a member of the Labor Party.

Mundine -- ALP former president and right-wing Aboriginal resident -- has used the 'sorry debate' to take "me me me" politics, not to mention inconsistency and 'malleable opinions' -- to a whole new level.

In 2003, at the NSW state conference, the Indigenous People and Reconciliation Committee called on NSW Labor to "continue to seek an appropriate response to the Stolen Generations by the Federal Government including the establishment of a national reparations tribunal."

Warren Mundine -- chair of the Indigenous committee -- actually moved the motion.

But less than a year later, Mundine was telling The Sydney Morning Herald that not only was compensation unnecessary, but that neither was an apology. It never fails to amaze me how people like Mundine ­who are NOT members of the Stolen Generations ­get so much space in the mainstream media to discuss the relevance or otherwise of an apology.

That aside, in 2008, Mundine is now arguing that an apology is a good thing, but that compensation is not needed. This man is a human headline created by The Australian newspaper. God help him if a real journalist ever gets to interview him.

The sad reality of this sorry sage is that it's politics that is the biggest killer of Aboriginal people. And with that in mind, the determination of Rudd, Jenny Macklin and other ALP figures to finalise this issue and get it off the political stage is worthy of great praise.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #111 - Jan 30th, 2008 at 7:26am
 
apologies are past due/ unless there is a current reason

what is to gain for the PM to apologise?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #112 - Jan 30th, 2008 at 11:18am
 
Truth and reconciliation.



This is getting absurd. Next the coalition will be asking for a committee to be established to devlop the wording of the apology that offends neither rednecks or aboriginies and avoids contentious words like 'sorry'. The buildup to this apology has already taken far too long. They should just get it over and done with and move on to real business. Unless they expect public feedback before the PM utters the words, there is no point:

Aboriginal apology 'should be previewed'

http://news.smh.com.au/aboriginal-apology-should-be-previewed/20080130-1p00.html

All Australians should have a chance to view the federal government's apology to indigenous Australians before it is given, Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop says.

Ms Bishop says she would like to see the government's proposal before the apology is made - and she thinks everyone should get the same opportunity.

"I think all Australians should see the wording of what is proposed before it is put to the parliament," she told reporters in Canberra.

"I think Australians would actually like to know what is actually in the wording and what it means and have time to think about it - and I'm in that position as well."

Ms Bishop would not say whether she supported the symbolism of the apology.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #113 - Jan 30th, 2008 at 7:26pm
 
Stupid Abo's have done nothing for Australia except bring it down with welfare issues ABOLISH WELFARE. Our goverment and in turn the working class australians are footing the bill for all there issues !! i say NO !! i want Abo's to appoligise and  say SORRY for 200+ years of haveing us eroupeans educate them then !! lifting there living standards !!!! giveing them money !!!! even when captian james cook came to Australia the Queen stated that abo's were and still are uncilivised people , and guess what AUSTRALIAN'S ARE CILIVISTED !! . ABO'S CAN ALSO SAY SORRY FOR BASHING MY FRIEND BEHIND THE SOCCOR CLUB AT BALLINA AS WELL AND RE-EMBURSE HIM FOR HIS LOST WAGES AND MEDICAL BILL THAT A GROUPE OF ABO'S DID !!!!!! we are here to do a job and its to breed abo's out, GOD SAVE OUR QUEEN BRITIANNA FOREVER
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #114 - Jan 30th, 2008 at 10:50pm
 
mark - bump.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #115 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 4:24am
 
What is come of out of this apology? Would they be more respects or govt approval etc? Everyone at one point or another has the govt. help in way of money and education. Maybe the Aus. govt. has done a disservice instead of furthering the Aboriginals. What do the Aboriginals think of PMs apology?  There seem to be a group of people who become scap goats. If not the Aboiginals then I bet the Muslims or the Asians. There needs to be World Peace.

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #116 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 4:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 30th, 2008 at 11:18am:
Truth and reconciliation.



This is getting absurd. Next the coalition will be asking for a committee to be established to devlop the wording of the apology that offends neither rednecks or aboriginies and avoids contentious words like 'sorry'. The buildup to this apology has already taken far too long. They should just get it over and done with and move on to real business. Unless they expect public feedback before the PM utters the words, there is no point:

Aboriginal apology 'should be previewed'

http://news.smh.com.au/aboriginal-apology-should-be-previewed/20080130-1p00.html

All Australians should have a chance to view the federal government's apology to indigenous Australians before it is given, Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop says.

Ms Bishop says she would like to see the government's proposal before the apology is made - and she thinks everyone should get the same opportunity.

"I think all Australians should see the wording of what is proposed before it is put to the parliament," she told reporters in Canberra.

"I think Australians would actually like to know what is actually in the wording and what it means and have time to think about it - and I'm in that position as well."

Ms Bishop would not say whether she supported the symbolism of the apology.



Agreed, it is absurd.  Bugger Big Jobs......the Government should determine what is said.  If Big Jobs wanted some input, she blew her chance when hayseed was in power.

We elect Governments to govern, not seek approval from the populace before they make every decision.
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Re: PM to say sorry to Aborigines on Feb 12
Reply #117 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 28th, 2008 at 11:40am:
http://news.smh.com.au/pm-to-say-sorry-to-aborigines-on-feb-12/20080128-1oi5.html

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will reportedly make an apology to Aboriginal people when federal parliament opens next month.

On Australia Day Mr Rudd named race relations between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians as one of the nation's great challenges.

Furthermore, he told guests at the Lodge on Saturday night he wanted indigenous people to be "full participants" in society, rather than marginalised Australians, News Ltd reports.

It says while Mr Rudd has ruled out paying compensation to Aboriginal people who were removed from their families as part of the stolen generation, moves are underway for the "sorry" declaration to come on February 12 when new MPs formally take their seats in parliament.

The former Howard government refused to apologise to the stolen generation, a decision that marred race relations but gained the Liberal leader widespread backing, News Ltd says.

Meanwhile public misunderstanding still exists about an apology to indigenous Australians and what it will mean for the nation, co-chair of the National Sorry Day Committee Helen Moran says.

Ms Moran said the Howard government's scaremongering had fuelled misunderstanding about the apology among some Australians.


Let Kevvy apologise if he wants to.  But keep me out of it.  I didn't steal any generations.

And when they come asking for money as Kevvy has accepted responsibility let him pay - it's not the taxpayers who should pay for Little Kevvy's guilt.
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Re: PM to say sorry to Aborigines on Feb 12
Reply #118 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:51pm
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:11pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 28th, 2008 at 11:40am:
http://news.smh.com.au/pm-to-say-sorry-to-aborigines-on-feb-12/20080128-1oi5.html

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will reportedly make an apology to Aboriginal people when federal parliament opens next month.

On Australia Day Mr Rudd named race relations between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians as one of the nation's great challenges.

Furthermore, he told guests at the Lodge on Saturday night he wanted indigenous people to be "full participants" in society, rather than marginalised Australians, News Ltd reports.

It says while Mr Rudd has ruled out paying compensation to Aboriginal people who were removed from their families as part of the stolen generation, moves are underway for the "sorry" declaration to come on February 12 when new MPs formally take their seats in parliament.

The former Howard government refused to apologise to the stolen generation, a decision that marred race relations but gained the Liberal leader widespread backing, News Ltd says.

Meanwhile public misunderstanding still exists about an apology to indigenous Australians and what it will mean for the nation, co-chair of the National Sorry Day Committee Helen Moran says.

Ms Moran said the Howard government's scaremongering had fuelled misunderstanding about the apology among some Australians.


Let Kevvy apologise if he wants to.  But keep me out of it.  I didn't steal any generations.

And when they come asking for money as Kevvy has accepted responsibility let him pay - it's not the taxpayers who should pay for Little Kevvy's guilt.



Hang on, you vote Lieberal, don't you? 

Remind me.....which Mob, Labor or Liberal, controlled Government when black kids were removed from their homes?
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Re: PM to say sorry to Aborigines on Feb 12
Reply #119 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 9:24pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:51pm:
Hang on, you vote Lieberal, don't you?  

Remind me.....which Mob, Labor or Liberal, controlled Government when black kids were removed from their homes?


It is irrelevant what I vote.  I didn't steal any generations so keep me out of it.  It should be Little Kevvy Liar's personal apology if he feels responsible for anything.

But in answer to your question it was both governments which are alleged to have stolen anyone.  After all the practice went on for decades.  But that was years ago.  I expect the people responsible have mostly dropped off the perch.  But if Kevvy feels guilty let him get on his own knees and dig deep in his own pockets, not mine.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #120 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 10:26pm
 
Mark - lol, how could we possibly fret over stolen black babies when a white got got beaten up....

What do the Aboriginals think of PMs apology?

I think most support it Dee, especially the ones involved in the incident.

There seem to be a group of people who become scap goats.

Not to do with the apology.

I think this issue is too dated to frame in terms of partisan blame.



Nelson under pressure to support apology

http://news.smh.com.au/nelson-under-pressure-to-support-apology/20080131-1p68.html

The federal coalition is under mounting pressure to support the Rudd government's apology to the stolen generation.

Former Liberal prime minister Malcolm Fraser warned the party would risk irrelevance by opposing it.

Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin appealed to all parliamentarians to support the apology, to be delivered by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd in parliament on February 13.

"We think this is very important to enable all of us, indigenous and non-indigenous Australians, to move forward," Ms Macklin said.

Dr Nelson shrugged off the statements of former prime minister Malcolm Fraser, who said the party should follow the lead of former treasurer Peter Costello and coalition frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull, who support an apology.

"If it doesn't, it paints itself into a corner; it becomes irrelevant," Mr Fraser told ABC radio.

The coalition will attempt to determine its position at a two-day party room meeting planned for next week.

Coalition MPs and senators are deeply divided on the issue.

Indigenous affairs spokeswoman Sharman Stone said she was "strongly supportive" of the apology, as did outspoken Liberal Senator Bill Heffernan.

But Nationals senator Barnaby Joyce said he did not believe in the idea of intergenerational guilt and thought the apology would be "confusing, empty and rhetorical".

Former Attorney-General Phillip Ruddock bristled when asked to outline his position.

Aboriginal academic Mick Dodson said the apology would be a powerful symbol of healing for the nation.



Formulating apology really tough: PM

http://news.smh.com.au/formulating-apology-really-tough-pm/20080201-1pgo.html

Formulating the federal government apology to the stolen generations has been "really tough", Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says.

"Next week we will go through a further round (of consultations) and we'll be closer to the content of that apology as we get closer to parliament itself," Mr Rudd told the Fairfax Media Network.

But Mr Rudd said once the apology was delivered it would be "time to move on", again rejecting calls for compensation.

"We will not under any circumstances be establishing any compensation arrangements or compensation fund," he said.

"Absolutely blunt on that."
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #121 - Feb 1st, 2008 at 5:47pm
 
Ha ha ha ha ha ha, who does he think we mushrooms are?  It will be the very next thing on the agenda as once he has accepted responsibility on our behalf (though I stole no one) we will become liable.  He does not give a poo for Australians.  He is happy to spend our money for the next 50 years on this stunt if it makes him popular.

I hope the pensioners, the schools, the hospitals and the dying can forgive those who voted Liebor.  I voted Liberal.
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Stolen generation man gets $250,000 more
Reply #122 - Feb 1st, 2008 at 7:25pm
 
http://news.smh.com.au/stolen-generation-man-gets-250000-more/20080201-1pjo.html

The first stolen generation Aborigine to be given compensation has been awarded another $250,000 by a South Australian court.

Bruce Trevorrow was awarded $525,000 in compensation in August last year after a South Australian judge ruled the state falsely imprisoned him as a child and owed him a duty of care for pain and suffering.

Lawyers for Mr Trevorrow then returned to court seeking 50 years of interest on the compensation payment.

The lawyers argued Mr Trevorrow should receive an extra $800,000 but the SA Supreme Court, civil jurisdiction, awarded him $250,000 in interest on Friday.

Mr Trevorrow was 13 months old in 1957 when a neighbour drove him from his Coorong family home, south-east of Adelaide, to Adelaide's Children's Hospital with stomach pains.

Two weeks later, under the authority of the Aborigines Protection Board, he was given to a woman, who later became his foster parent, without the permission of his natural parents.

He did not see his family again for 10 years and has since suffered life-long depression, insecurity and became an alcoholic.

The government also was continuing to examine alternatives to court action for other stolen generation victims, he said.

"We know how expensive it is for the South Australian taxpayer, and how emotionally fraught it is for the claimants in such cases for similar matters to be pursued through the courts," Mr Atkinson said.



Nelson coy on past stance on apology

http://news.smh.com.au/nelson-coy-on-past-stance-on-apology/20080203-1psl.html

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson has refused to speak about his past stances on an apology to the stolen generation of Aborigines, as the opposition remains undecided about support for a government apology.

Dr Nelson has demanded to see the exact wording of the apology to be made on February 13 before he offers his support but his leadership rival Malcolm Turnbull has previously flagged his support for an apology.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #123 - Feb 3rd, 2008 at 4:21pm
 
deepthought wrote on Feb 1st, 2008 at 5:47pm:
 I voted Liberal.


So you keep saying.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #124 - Feb 3rd, 2008 at 5:10pm
 
Quote:
deepthought wrote on Feb 1st, 2008 at 5:47pm:
 I voted Liberal.


So you keep saying.


It's important for people to know I took no part in the crashing sounds you can hear around you as Liebor wrecks the brilliant towers of economic wisdom built by the former government.  When times are terrible once more, as they were during the Hawke/Keating tyranny, I can hold my head up with pride and people will know I did not will that on them.
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Rudd, Nelson to discuss apology
Reply #125 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 8:35pm
 
This is an unusual step. Hopefully it will help to stop the partisan bickering that is clouding this issue.

Rudd, Nelson to discuss apology

http://news.smh.com.au/rudd-nelson-to-discuss-apology/20080204-1q1u.html

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says he will hold talks with Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson in the next couple of days about his planned wording of a formal apology to the indigenous stolen generations.

Mr Rudd said his Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin had completed one round of consultation with Aborigines about the wording of the apology, and more consultation would happen this week.



Coalition to support apology: Heffernan

http://news.smh.com.au/coalition-to-support-apology-heffernan/20080204-1q11.html

An outspoken coalition senator says he has no doubt his colleagues will support the federal government's planned apology to the stolen generations.

The coalition parties will discuss their position on the government's planned apology to indigenous Australians during meetings this Wednesday and Thursday.

The opposition has been under pressure to give bipartisan support to the apology, which Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will deliver in parliament next week.

Outspoken Liberal senator Bill Heffernan said it was a "no brainer" the coalition would support it.

"I don't doubt that for a minute," he told ABC radio on Monday.

"And if part of the journey to economic benefit (for indigenous people) is tidying up the past, let's for bloody godsake tidy up the past and get on with it."

Meanwhile, former Northern Territory chief minister Shane Stone said he had received an overwhelmingly positive response from Liberal MPs and senators he had urged to support the apology.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #126 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:30pm
 
Quote:
It's important for people to know I took no part in the crashing sounds you can hear around you as Liebor wrecks the brilliant towers of economic wisdom built by the former government.  When times are terrible once more, as they were during the Hawke/Keating tyranny, I can hold my head up with pride and people will know I did not will that on them.


I voted Labor to rid Australia of a 'lying rodent,' who had lost direction.

As for those 'brilliant towers of economic wisdom.......' they never existed, and that is now evident even though the Rudd Government in waiting has not yet convened.

If hayseed had won the election, and today's economic factors exist as they would had hayseed won, he would proffer the "Yeah, but it would be much worse had Labor won," and the blind faithful like DT would, in a trance, sing from the same prayer book.

I am grateful that people like DT are in the minority, and that the majority of Australians sent the lying rodent, and his Government, packing.

.........................and the new leadership of the Lieberals has not yet even once disagreed with Rudd's proposals, even colluding with Rudd on the "Sorry" statement............one which hayseed could never have made because he denied the reality of the 'stolen generation.'

Anyone heard from Nelson being critical of any statement made by any member of Rudd's team concerning matters economic?

Nah.

Anyone heard any spokesperson of the Lieberals blaming Rudd's election as a factor influencing current economic indicators, or interest rates?

Nah.

Why.........because unlike our flowery fop, DT, they know that to say so defies simple fact and political reality.

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #127 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:36pm
 
If hayseed had won the election, and today's economic factors exist as they would had hayseed won, he would proffer the "Yeah, but it would be much worse had Labor won,"

Oh it will be- the cracks are already appearing. Committee after committee set up for the Liebor party 'brainstorming' because they have no idea on how to tackle the situation.

I'll blame you personally Aussie for your lack of braincells to make the right choice to save this country from ruin
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #128 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:52pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:30pm:
Quote:
It's important for people to know I took no part in the crashing sounds you can hear around you as Liebor wrecks the brilliant towers of economic wisdom built by the former government.  When times are terrible once more, as they were during the Hawke/Keating tyranny, I can hold my head up with pride and people will know I did not will that on them.


I voted Labor to rid Australia of a 'lying rodent,' who had lost direction.

As for those 'brilliant towers of economic wisdom.......' they never existed, and that is now evident even though the Rudd Government in waiting has not yet convened.

If hayseed had won the election, and today's economic factors exist as they would had hayseed won, he would proffer the "Yeah, but it would be much worse had Labor won," and the blind faithful like DT would, in a trance, sing from the same prayer book.

I am grateful that people like DT are in the minority, and that the majority of Australians sent the lying rodent, and his Government, packing.

.........................and the new leadership of the Lieberals has not yet even once disagreed with Rudd's proposals, even colluding with Rudd on the "Sorry" statement............one which hayseed could never have made because he denied the reality of the 'stolen generation.'

Anyone heard from Nelson being critical of any statement made by any member of Rudd's team concerning matters economic?

Nah.

Anyone heard any spokesperson of the Lieberals blaming Rudd's election as a factor influencing current economic indicators, or interest rates?

Nah.

Why.........because unlike our flowery fop, DT, they know that to say so defies simple fact and political reality.



I'm certain that you will be hunted down and nailed to a cross then Aussie.  Few people who have seen what they have unleashed on the populace by voting Liebor have been willing to own up and confess they were foolish enough to have believed the lies.  I applaud you for proffering yourself up for crucifixion.  Good luck with the resurrection though.

And I have no vested interest in encouraging Little Kevvy to fall on his sword while the Liberals do - it is akin to goading a fool to leap into a fire to show how brave he is.  And Little Kevvy is lining up the fire now with the help of the cries of encouragement from people like Brendan.  I prefer to tell the truth about him.

The population will dump the badly singed Kevvy in 2010, no one enjoys poverty.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #129 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:57pm
 
How about answering the questions I asked?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #130 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 10:22pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:57pm:
How about answering the questions I asked?


And they were?
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Coalition to support indigenous apology
Reply #131 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 6:25pm
 
http://news.smh.com.au/coalition-to-support-indigenous-apology/20080206-1qgp.html

Coalition MPs have agreed in principle to support Labor's parliamentary apology to the stolen generation, to be made next week.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson said the Liberal and National MPs had agreed to support the resolution, as long as the wording is acceptable.

Asked if the coalition could still oppose the apology if it did not like the exact words used, Dr Nelson said it was strongly supported in principle but Mr Rudd had not made the words available.

And Mr Rudd should also release legal advice he had received on the issue of compensation, to reassure the public that it would not "open up the floodgates for compensation".
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Re: Coalition to support indigenous apology
Reply #132 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 7:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 6:25pm:
http://news.smh.com.au/coalition-to-support-indigenous-apology/20080206-1qgp.html

Coalition MPs have agreed in principle to support Labor's parliamentary apology to the stolen generation, to be made next week.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson said the Liberal and National MPs had agreed to support the resolution, as long as the wording is acceptable.

Asked if the coalition could still oppose the apology if it did not like the exact words used, Dr Nelson said it was strongly supported in principle but Mr Rudd had not made the words available.

And Mr Rudd should also release legal advice he had received on the issue of compensation, to reassure the public that it would not "open up the floodgates for compensation".


Ha ha ha ha ha, as if it will matter what legal advice he has received.  Once he admits liability he will have the taxpayer paying for his apology for eons. 

I hope you like high taxes folks.
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Re: Coalition to support indigenous apology
Reply #133 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 8:43pm
 
deepthought wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 7:24pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 6:25pm:
http://news.smh.com.au/coalition-to-support-indigenous-apology/20080206-1qgp.html

Coalition MPs have agreed in principle to support Labor's parliamentary apology to the stolen generation, to be made next week.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson said the Liberal and National MPs had agreed to support the resolution, as long as the wording is acceptable.

Asked if the coalition could still oppose the apology if it did not like the exact words used, Dr Nelson said it was strongly supported in principle but Mr Rudd had not made the words available.

And Mr Rudd should also release legal advice he had received on the issue of compensation, to reassure the public that it would not "open up the floodgates for compensation".


Ha ha ha ha ha, as if it will matter what legal advice he has received.  Once he admits liability he will have the taxpayer paying for his apology for eons. 

I hope you like high taxes folks.


Your legal journey has a long way to go grasshopper.

If I apologise, and even say 'sorry' for something some other retard did to you.....dunno why they would, you are so not the most annoying prick on the internet.......that will not make me responsible and does not represent the basis upon which you can successfully sue me.

This apology will be tightly drawn, as it should be.  It may well be along the lines of....."As the current PM of this Nation, I wish to say that am sorry that...............etc etc..."
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Re: Coalition to support indigenous apology
Reply #134 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 9:50pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 8:43pm:
deepthought wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 7:24pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 6:25pm:
http://news.smh.com.au/coalition-to-support-indigenous-apology/20080206-1qgp.html

Coalition MPs have agreed in principle to support Labor's parliamentary apology to the stolen generation, to be made next week.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson said the Liberal and National MPs had agreed to support the resolution, as long as the wording is acceptable.

Asked if the coalition could still oppose the apology if it did not like the exact words used, Dr Nelson said it was strongly supported in principle but Mr Rudd had not made the words available.

And Mr Rudd should also release legal advice he had received on the issue of compensation, to reassure the public that it would not "open up the floodgates for compensation".


Ha ha ha ha ha, as if it will matter what legal advice he has received.  Once he admits liability he will have the taxpayer paying for his apology for eons.  

I hope you like high taxes folks.


Your legal journey has a long way to go grasshopper.

If I apologise, and even say 'sorry' for something some other retard did to you.....dunno why they would, you are so not the most annoying prick on the internet.......that will not make me responsible and does not represent the basis upon which you can successfully sue me.

This apology will be tightly drawn, as it should be.  It may well be along the lines of....."As the current PM of this Nation, I wish to say that am sorry that...............etc etc..."


It's quite possible you do not understand commerce, the world of underwriting and the litigiousness of the legal profession.

Have you ever wondered why your insurance company exhorts you not to admit liability in an accident?  They know what Little Kevvy and you do not.

In fact in the United States some 19 states have now introduced legislation to render an apology "inadmissible as evidence of an admission of liability".  If you are wondering why it is because without such legislation an apology is an admission of liability.

Sorry mate, you lose.  In fact all we taxpayers do.  Kevvy has broken our backs.

But if you don't believe me let time be my proof.  The compensation claims will start.
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Many Aboriginal children rescued - Libs
Reply #135 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 1:50pm
 
Don Randall seems a bit confused:

Many Aboriginal children rescued - Libs

http://news.smh.com.au/many-aboriginal-children-rescued--libs/20080207-1qo3.html

Several opposition MPs remain unconvinced about the use of the word stolen in any parliamentary apology to Aboriginal children forcibly removed from their homes.

A day after the coalition pledged in-principle support for the apology, opposition indigenous affairs spokesman Tony Abbott maintains some of the children were "rescued".

Mr Abbott said some children were not stolen and it was important the apology reflected a genuine view of the past.

"Some kids were stolen, but some were rescued and some kids were helped, so you have to be true to the real history of our country not to a fanciful history of our country," he told reporters.

WA MP Don Randall admitted he was unconvinced the opposition should provide "in-principle" support for the apology.

"It is very hard to sign onto a contract, and that's what it is, until we see the set of words and the fact that (Prime Minister) Mr Rudd doesn't seem to be able to get his own party ... to come to a decision yet on the final set of words just shows they have a lot of internal division amongst themselves," he told reporters.

When asked whether he agreed with supporting the apology in principle he replied: "Um, yeah, I'm getting there."



Apology issue 'cost Turnbull leadership'

http://news.smh.com.au/apology-issue-cost-turnbull-leadership/20080207-1qpq.html

Malcolm Turnbull's failure to consult his colleagues over an apology to the stolen generation cost him the federal Liberal party leadership, frontbencher Nick Minchin says.

Mr Turnbull lost a party room ballot by three votes to Brendan Nelson last December.

Senator Minchin, the opposition leader in the Senate, said Mr Turnbull's public support for an apology to the indigenous stolen generation contributed to his defeat.

"The issue with the leadership was not so much the apology per se, but the question of the role and the authority of the party room," Senator Minchin told ABC radio.

"We wanted a leader who would respect the authority of the party room and not announce changes in policy without proper consultation with the party room.

"Brendan (Nelson) has adopted that kind of leadership, of being consultative, of respecting the authority of the party room and I think that was the issue rather than the apology per se at the time of that leadership ballot."

Senator Minchin says solidarity on policy is a priority of the new coalition in opposition.

"There was a feeling after 12 years of government, where often out of necessity, the government made decisions without being able to or fully consulting the party room," he said.

"Many in the party room felt they were being handed a fait accompli.

"The mood now that we are in opposition is one that says the leadership should properly consult the party room, particularly before changing policy on issues as significant as the question of an apology."



Finally some common sense from the coalition:

Nelson convinced by non-guilt apology

http://news.smh.com.au/nelson-convinced-by-nonguilt-apology/20080208-1qzm.html

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson says he chose to support the apology to the stolen generations because the government convinced him it was not about today's Australians feeling guilt for past policies.

The opposition this week chose to support the apology, even though many coalition MPs, including Dr Nelson, had earlier spoken out against it.

Dr Nelson again objected to the use of the word "stolen", saying he would prefer the word "separated".

Dr Nelson shrugged off media commentary, sparked by his approach to the apology, that his leadership of the Liberal Party is only temporary.



Freeman says an apology is much needed

http://news.smh.com.au/freeman-says-an-apology-is-much-needed/20080209-1r7c.html

Cathy Freeman has told of the "horrible" treatment of her ancestors and says the Rudd government's imminent apology to the stolen generations is much needed.

Freeman says the apology, to be delivered when the Federal Parliament resumes next week, will be a healing and a "proud moment" for her family and for many aboriginal people.

"Saying sorry will mean so much to so many people. It is going to be a really proud moment for us," the Olympic gold medallist told the Weekend Australian.

"But in my heart I feel there is a real need for it.

"For my family, it allows some kind of healing and forgiveness to take place where there is less anger and bitterness in the hearts of people.

"It takes away the pain. We will never forget, but this allows us to forgive."
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Re: Coalition to support indigenous apology
Reply #136 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 6:14am
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 8:43pm:
deepthought wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 7:24pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 6:25pm:
http://news.smh.com.au/coalition-to-support-indigenous-apology/20080206-1qgp.html

Coalition MPs have agreed in principle to support Labor's parliamentary apology to the stolen generation, to be made next week.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson said the Liberal and National MPs had agreed to support the resolution, as long as the wording is acceptable.

Asked if the coalition could still oppose the apology if it did not like the exact words used, Dr Nelson said it was strongly supported in principle but Mr Rudd had not made the words available.

And Mr Rudd should also release legal advice he had received on the issue of compensation, to reassure the public that it would not "open up the floodgates for compensation".


Ha ha ha ha ha, as if it will matter what legal advice he has received.  Once he admits liability he will have the taxpayer paying for his apology for eons.  

I hope you like high taxes folks.


Your legal journey has a long way to go grasshopper.

If I apologise, and even say 'sorry' for something some other retard did to you.....dunno why they would, you are so not the most annoying prick on the internet.......that will not make me responsible and does not represent the basis upon which you can successfully sue me.

This apology will be tightly drawn, as it should be.  It may well be along the lines of....."As the current PM of this Nation, I wish to say that am sorry that...............etc etc..."



I think you will find I was right my friend - the calls have begun before the admission of liability is even given . . . . .

I accept your apology Aussie.  You have little knowledge of matters worldly and issues specific.




Quote:
Aborigines head to Canberra calling for compensation


The area around Canberra's Aboriginal Tent Embassy is being prepared for the influx of people. Hundreds of Aboriginal people are making their way to Canberra to hear the Prime Minister officially apologise to the Stolen Generations, as calls are made for compensation from the Federal Government.   The area around Canberra's Aboriginal Tent Embassy is being prepared for the influx of people from around Australia expected to arrive ahead of the apology.

Many of those expected to travel to Canberra will also take part in a rally from the Tent Embassy to the federal Parliament on Tuesday in support of calls for compensation to the Stolen Generations.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has ruled out compensation but many Aboriginal leaders who have travelled from across the nation to be in Canberra for the event are still arguing for reparations.

The Tent Embassy's Isabelle Coe says she thinks some form of compensation is inevitable.

Farewell to decency - welcome to the victims



This is a blow to Aboriginal folk everwhere.  How dare Kevvy ruin inter-Australian relationships and cost us and our children for decades to come.  Why doesn't he just fork out if he feels guilty about his part in 'stealing generations'.  I had nothing to do with it and I have nothing to be sorry for.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #137 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 7:12pm
 
Quote:
I accept your apology Aussie.


What apology?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #138 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 9:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 11th, 2008 at 7:12pm:
Quote:
I accept your apology Aussie.


What apology?


The one you are about to make.  You seem to be in a minority of one with your fixation on your belief that an apology does not mean an admission of liability.  I am right in this regard (and I know you know it) so an honest person would admit they were wrong and apologise.  After all according to you it's pretty meaningless as it is not an admission of liability to say sorry.  Si I accept in advance for the apology you are about to give - it's symbolic is all Aussie - no blame is attached - you said so.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #139 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 12:49am
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:30pm:
I voted Labor to rid Australia of a 'lying rodent,' who had lost direction.


And voted in another rodent instead. Wink
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #140 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 8:02pm
 
Not sure where the original source for this is:

    Since it’s “in vogue” at the moment - here it is..the APOLOGY
    KRudd should be giving to the aboriginals!!

    We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care
    and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so
    that you can demand apologies.

    We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the
    English language and thus we opened up to you the entire
    European civilisation, thought and enterprise.

    We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes
    for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

    We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped
    prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the
    unfortunate for food purposes.

    We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which
    today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of
    living off the land and starving during droughts.

    We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of
    fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.

    We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between
    cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk
    over harsh terrain.

    We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay
    the installments.

    We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats,
    firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that
    you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.

    We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever. We
    apologise for giving each and every member of your family
    $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

    We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white
    people have to pay.

    We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

    We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including
    gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their
    value.

    We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then
    handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

    We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards
    daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)

    We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your
    people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and
    child.

    We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your
    welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2
    billion each year.

    We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded
    aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.

    For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in
    your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of
    you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really
    do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.

    We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you
    to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #141 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 9:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 19th, 2008 at 8:02pm:
Not sure where the original source for this is:

   Since it’s “in vogue” at the moment - here it is..the APOLOGY
   KRudd should be giving to the aboriginals!!

   We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care
   and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so
   that you can demand apologies.

   We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the
   English language and thus we opened up to you the entire
   European civilisation, thought and enterprise.

   We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes
   for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

   We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped
   prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the
   unfortunate for food purposes.

   We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which
   today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of
   living off the land and starving during droughts.

   We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of
   fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.

   We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between
   cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk
   over harsh terrain.

   We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay
   the installments.

   We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats,
   firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that
   you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.

   We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever. We
   apologise for giving each and every member of your family
   $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

   We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white
   people have to pay.

   We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

   We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including
   gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their
   value.

   We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then
   handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

   We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards
   daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)

   We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your
   people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and
   child.

   We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your
   welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2
   billion each year.

   We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded
   aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.

   For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in
   your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of
   you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really
   do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.

   We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you
   to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready


The above is an insulting representaton of Indigenous pple in this country...

If it has been circulating thru your inbox as a putdown to Ind pple the decision to post it on a public as part of serious debate is a joke at best and a very poor decsion by the poster.i


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« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2008 at 11:32am by oceanz »  

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #142 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 10:11am
 
Still waiting Freediver!!!
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #143 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 10:46am
 
It was inevitable that Australia would be colonised and the native people would need to evolve with the rest of the world. What happened to the stolen generation was believed to be in the best interest for the children, I personally don't agree with what was done, obviously taking them from their families is going cause them hardship especially considering many of them abused by the people supposedly saving them.
However should the Dutch or heaven forbid the Spanish had colonised it is highly likely they would have just murdered them, and definately would not have made the efforts the Australian government are now making to help Aboriginal people integrate.
I bet "sorry" will do nothing in regards to relations, nor will it change the "you owe me" attitude of many aboriginals, nor will it lower the illiteracy numbers of aboriginals, nor the % of aboriginals who are in jail,on drugs and alcoholics, unemployed. White Australians are far from perfect and have many scum within our ranks who are just as hopeless, it comes down to per head of population in my opinion.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #144 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 10:58am
 
nor will it change the "you owe me" attitude of many aboriginals, nor will it lower the illiteracy numbers of aboriginals, nor the % of aboriginals who are in jail

If you grow up in a household where the elders are bitter and angry towards towards the broader community, you are far less likely to want to contribute to that community and sacrifice a good part of your youth to learning how to contribute. Growing up in a household where the elders have forgiven the injustices of the past makes this far more likely. It makes it hard to forgive when a person, group or institution refuses to even apologise. It is unreasonable to expect the aborigines to seek out the specific people involved in their own personal suffering to give them a chance to apologise. Anyone who thinks an apology cannot influence people's behaviour must be lacking people skills or an understanding of basic human psychology.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #145 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 11:27am
 
Po Quote:
ceans Posted on: Yesterday at 9:51pm
Quote from freediver on Yesterday at 8:02pm:
Not sure where the original source for this is:

  Since it’s “in vogue” at the moment - here it is..the APOLOGY
  KRudd should be giving to the aboriginals!!

  We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care
  and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so
  that you can demand apologies.

  We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the
  English language and thus we opened up to you the entire
  European civilisation, thought and enterprise.

  We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes
  for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

  We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped
  prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the
  unfortunate for food purposes.

  We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which
  today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of
  living off the land and starving during droughts.

  We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of
  fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.

  We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between
  cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk
  over harsh terrain.

  We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay
  the installments.

  We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats,
  firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that
  you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.

  We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever. We
  apologise for giving each and every member of your family
  $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

  We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white
  people have to pay.

  We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

  We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including
  gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their
  value.

  We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then
  handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

  We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards
  daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)

  We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your
  people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and
  child.

  We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your
  welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2
  billion each year.

  We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded
  aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.

  For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in
  your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of
  you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really
  do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.

  We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you
  to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready  

Freediver-

You post the above and this this below...?

Quote:
Anyone who thinks an apology cannot influence people's behaviour must be lacking people skills or an understanding of basic human psychology
.

You just called yourself a very naughty name starts with "h" and ends with "te" and sounds like TWO FACED!!!! (no that was hypocrite)



...
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #146 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 12:02pm
 
Oceans, I thought I made it pretty clear that they were not my words.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #147 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 12:42pm
 
I think that saying sorry was the right thing to do. Some people obviously still have a very stereotypical view of aborigines. That's the view that got us into the mess in the first place.

A lot of blame has to be put on the 'well intentioned man'. He's a ghost figure that has gone through the ages making up his own mind about people without even consulting them, and doing charitable deeds for their own good (whether they thought the deeds were charitable or not). The attitudes of the past were generally a lot more racist that those of today.

Aboriginal society can be described as dysfunctional in a lot of ways, partly as a result of such attitudes, and the fact that collectively they have felt unwanted and hated throughout the years. The act of the government saying sorry is a step in the right direction.

Aborigines can and will do better in society. I remember watching an immaculately groomed Aboriginal family shopping in Alice Springs. The kids were a credit to their people, and I couldn't help being filled with a feeling of hope for Aborigines. I got a warm tingle down my spine to see that. It must have been such a struggle for them to succeed despite the prejudices and brick walls in general society.

Of course I've seen the ugly side too, particularly the drunks around the Todd River. The point is that it doesn't have to be like that. It comes down to little things like treating aborigines you meet with respect. Don't prejudge people because of the colour of their skin.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #148 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 12:53pm
 
I think the 'for their benefit' bit is a bit of a copout. As late as the seventies, members of parliament were talking up plans to 'breed out' aborigines. This had nothing to do with looking after them. It was about making them disappear.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #149 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 1:23pm
 
Yeah. The removal of half-caste Aborigines from Aboriginal settlements was an example of this.  The message was loud and clear - That half castes were somehow more capable of making a life for themselves, and that full caste Aborigines had no hope. 

The only way that half cast Aborigines would have an advantage was the fact that perhaps there was  less prejudice in the white society of the time against them, so that they could be allowed to make a life for themselves. The very act legitimised the prejudice and poison that pervaded the society of the time.

It seems that many of the older generation still have that poison circulating in their blood.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #150 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 1:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2008 at 12:02pm:
Oceans, I thought I made it pretty clear that they were not my words.



Even so I thought you a better man than that. What possible reason could you possibly have to post trash like that?

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #151 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 2:02pm
 
Because it is interesting and contains relevant information. I'd also like to find out if the details are true. I'm not going to withhold information I come across just because it contradicts my views. I often post articles that say different things.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #152 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 2:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2008 at 2:02pm:
Because it is interesting and contains relevant information. I'd also like to find out if the details are true. I'm not going to withhold information I come across just because it contradicts my views. I often post articles that say different things.



Well is it any wonder then that pple are always coming after you hounding you to explain yourself..

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #153 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 2:34pm
 
That is usually for very different reasons - because of my own words, not because of a copy and paste job.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #154 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 3:51pm
 
Three aboriginals are sitting at the local shops in Meekathara. The first bloke says to his mate, "Hey Jeffry, wat land ya gunna buy wit your money from da gubmint?" Jeffry says, " I'm gonna buy Arnom land, dat's good land up der bloke!"

Then Jeffry says to Lewis, " Hey Lewis, wat land you gunna buy?" Lewis says, " I'm gunna buy Gibson land.. Nice place round der eh!"

Then Lewis says to Neville, "Ai! Neville, wat land you gunna buy dere bloke?" Neville replies, " I'm gunna buy dat LIQUOR LAND!"
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Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #155 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 3:55pm
 
He who was not 'stolen'
.
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Sorry.jpg (14 KB | 54 )
Sorry.jpg

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #156 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 11:30pm
 
Quote:
Three aboriginals are sitting at the local shops in Meekathara. The first bloke says to his mate, "Hey Jeffry, wat land ya gunna buy wit your money from da gubmint?" Jeffry says, " I'm gonna buy Arnom land, dat's good land up der bloke!"

Then Jeffry says to Lewis, " Hey Lewis, wat land you gunna buy?" Lewis says, " I'm gunna buy Gibson land.. Nice place round der eh!"

Then Lewis says to Neville, "Ai! Neville, wat land you gunna buy dere bloke?" Neville replies, " I'm gunna buy dat LIQUOR LAND!"


Grin. an aborigine told me that joke, but I guess it's only racist if your white.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #157 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 3:29pm
 
The Australian Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies

SEMINAR SERIES


The Politics of Saying Sorry: Indigenous Australian Perspectives

Helen Moran
Indigenous Co-Chair of the National Sorry Day Committee (NSDC),
Canberra

Tuesday, 26 February 2008
12:00 – 1:30pm
Don Carruthers Room, Level 5,
Dorothy Hill PSE Library, Hawken Bldg (50)
(Enter library and take lift to Level 5)
http://www.uq.edu.au/maps/pdf/StLuciaMap.pdf  at K5 co-ordinates


In this seminar Helen Moran will share her wealth of experience in Indigenous politics to discuss the Rudd Labor Government’s formal apology to the Indigenous peoples of Australia, highlighting the importance of consultation and the significance of the recommendations made by the Bringing Them Home Report.

Helen Moran is a Stolen Generations Survivor and descendant of the Wiradjuri and Wongaibon Nations of NSW. Helen has actively promoted Sorry Day and the Journey of Healing. Helen's extensive involvement in the Sorry Day/Journey of Healing movement brought about her role in negotiating and co-ordinating the launch of the Journey of Healing event with the Mutujulu Community of Uluru in 1999 at the foot of Uluru. In 2000 she was invited to tour Western Australia to perform and speak to over 6000 children in a campaign to promote awareness about the Stolen Generations, Sorry Day and the Bringing Them Home Report. Helen has performed for, workshopped and lectured to over one million children throughout Australia. Helen has also been involved in the promotion of the “Around The Kitchen Table Reconciliation Resource”, adapting the kit and using it as a foundation tool to structure the Women’s Reconciliation Camps she facilitates. In April 2007, Helen lobbied Australian senators to take the name change of the National Sorry Day back to the senate and have it reinstated as the day of commemoration for the Stolen Generations, their families and communities. She continues to be an active advocate on Indigenous issues in Australia.
The seminars are free, and all academics, staff, students, and interested persons are welcome.
For enquiries please contact: Patricia Manley, 334 67593 or acpacs@uq.edu.au
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Reply #158 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 8:26pm
 
You know, I've been saying sorry to the aborigines for years. Every time they ask for a cigarette or money - Sorry!

- Ben, from Queensland
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #159 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:44pm
 
merou wrote on Feb 20th, 2008 at 11:30pm:
an aborigine told me that joke, but I guess it's only racist if your white.


It's racist whether you're white or not. But the really sick joke is those who think they should have to buy land. They should buy land from us? They OWN the land, stoopid! You not only want to trespass and build Liqorlands all over their country — now you want to sell bits of it to them? Good Lord …and they reckon the Mafia are bent.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #160 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2008 at 2:02pm:
Because it is interesting and contains relevant information. I'd also like to find out if the details are true. I'm not going to withhold information I come across just because it contradicts my views. I often post articles that say different things.


It's not information at all. What information do you imagine it to contain? It's nothing more than a redneck polemic rant designed to instil racial hatred. OzPolitic's dissemination of it is probably illegal.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #161 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:48pm
 
Illegal, on what grounds?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #162 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:56pm
 
Lefty here wants to stifle discussion

You vill conform to our vays or you vill be banned from zee internet
Roll Eyes
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #163 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:11pm
 
Laugh, but I once had a bunch of people do their best to get me banned from the entire internet, or at least every site they could track me down on.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #164 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:14pm
 
I know how you feel  Cheesy
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Reply #165 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:18pm
 
I thought that was just a case of mistaken identity?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #166 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:23pm
 
That was...but I have been pursued ever since
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #167 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:25pm
 
Cracticus wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:44pm:
merou wrote on Feb 20th, 2008 at 11:30pm:
an aborigine told me that joke, but I guess it's only racist if your white.


It's racist whether you're white or not. But the really sick joke is those who think they should have to buy land. They should buy land from us? They OWN the land, stoopid! You not only want to trespass and build Liqorlands all over their country — now you want to sell bits of it to them? Good Lord …and they reckon the Mafia are bent.



I guess, the difference is that the aborigine telling the joke is poking fun at himself, while a whitey telling it is probably ridiculing them. It good to have a laugh at yourself sometimes but it never cool to laugh at the expense of others.

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #168 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:28pm
 
It comes down to company. If you are comfortable with those around you then you can joke about anything, regardless of race etc. That's because you know the person telling the joke is doing it just as a joke, not as an expression of deep seated racism. It's no different to telling someone you are going to kill them. If they know it's a joke, fine.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #169 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 5:48pm:
Illegal, on what grounds?


Ever heard of the Racial Discrimination Act, 1975?   Or the Racial Hatred Act, 1995?
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #170 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:48pm
 
What if you hate all humans equally?
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Reply #171 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 7:03pm
 
Quote:
Ever heard of the Racial Discrimination Act, 1975?   Or the Racial Hatred Act, 1995?


Yes - Cracticus.  There's some information on the racism thread on the Feedback board not specifically about those acts, but the revised version which the last government altered.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #172 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 7:19pm
 
Cracticus wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:41pm:
Ever heard of the Racial Discrimination Act, 1975?   Or the Racial Hatred Act, 1995?


So if it's not hatred of a race, or discrimination against a certain race but pointing out the fact that a certain race has, as a majority, alcoholics, drug addicts, large majority in prison, violent etc etc in it's population, could you then just call it the truth? or do you still think that pointing out these facts is racist?

Sometimes the truth about a certain race is just fact, expressing these facts does not mean you are racist.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #173 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 8:05pm
 
IQSRLOW wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:48pm:
What if you hate all humans equally?


I'm guessing you'd know more about that than I do.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #174 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 8:09pm
 
merou wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 7:19pm:
Cracticus wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:41pm:
Ever heard of the Racial Discrimination Act, 1975?   Or the Racial Hatred Act, 1995?


So if it's not hatred of a race, or discrimination against a certain race but pointing out the fact that a certain race has, as a majority, alcoholics, drug addicts, large majority in prison, violent etc etc in it's population, could you then just call it the truth? or do you still think that pointing out these facts is racist?

Sometimes the truth about a certain race is just fact, expressing these facts does not mean you are racist.


What facts? Point one out, in that disgusting rubbish above, if you can find one.

Polemical rants are not facts. Lies are not facts. Poking fun at someone's disadvantage is not fact. That your own kind is responsible for that disadvantage makes it even more reprehensible.

Inverting the truth is not expressing the truth. Implying that Aboriginal people are cannibalistic is something only the most uneducated moron could do. I don't know or care what racial background you come from; but I know that at a time when my ancestors were painting themselves with woad and raiding each other's camps to kill and eat one another, Australia's Aboriginal people were living in relatively ordered societies, and cooperating peacefully with their neighbours.

You talk of violence. When did Aboriginal people send troops to some other country to destroy hundreds of thousands of innocent strangers' lives? To my shame, my race did that, not theirs.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #175 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 8:51pm
 
Cracticus wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 8:05pm:
IQSRLOW wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:48pm:
What if you hate all humans equally?


I'm guessing you'd know more about that than I do.


That's because your racist
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #176 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 9:24pm
 
IQSRLOW wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 8:51pm:
Cracticus wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 8:05pm:
IQSRLOW wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:48pm:
What if you hate all humans equally?


I'm guessing you'd know more about that than I do.


That's because your racist


Only in the estimation of someone with a superlow IQ.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #177 - Feb 28th, 2008 at 9:40pm
 
IQ levels are not something you are qualified to discern seeing as you lack the basics to qualify as even mildly stupid.

But congratulations, you do qualify as supremely racist so you get a gold star

...
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #178 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 7:59am
 
Quack: "IQ levels are not something you are qualified to discern seeing as you lack the basics to qualify as even mildly stupid."

Why, thank you. Second laugh this morning. Sorry I can't return the compliment. My impression is that you qualify quite easily as mildly stupid.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #179 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 8:44am
 
Cracticus - just ignore some of the comments made by IQ, if they're particularly annoying.  IQ always has to have the last word, even after having lost an argument.
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #180 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 10:06am
 
merou wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 7:19pm:
Cracticus wrote on Feb 28th, 2008 at 6:41pm:
Ever heard of the Racial Discrimination Act, 1975?   Or the Racial Hatred Act, 1995?


So if it's not hatred of a race, or discrimination against a certain race but pointing out the fact that a certain race has, as a majority, alcoholics, drug addicts, large majority in prison, violent etc etc in it's population, could you then just call it the truth? or do you still think that pointing out these facts is racist?

Sometimes the truth about a certain race is just fact, expressing these facts does not mean you are racist.


Sometimes truth or contructive criticism can be falsely labelled as villification.

For example, people offering facts or constructive criticism against Israel are sometimes brushed aside or labelled as "anti-Semitic". This ploy whether intentionally (or otherwise) is employed primarily to stifle debate or to discredit the commentator.

Truth is truth and facts are facts. However, generalisation and wholesale villification is discrimination

To say that there is a problem with alcoholism in the outback communities primarily among the aborigines is fact. To say that all aborigines are petrol sniffing alcoholics is villification.

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #181 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 10:15am
 
Off topic replies have been moved to This Thread
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #182 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 3:35pm
 
aloof boof - if you have sincere intentions of becoming conversant with the reasons for the need too express sorrow for past wrongs committed to Aboriginies, i can suggest there is no better way than to spend some time in Fitzroy Crossing - WA. It typifies the total misunderstanding by Australian government  - past and present - of the cultural bonds and enemities that exist within their communities and ensconced unwillingly in our society.
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Senate looks at stolen generations compo
Reply #183 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 4:46pm
 
Senate looks at stolen generations compo

http://news.smh.com.au/senate-looks-at-stolen-generations-compo/20080312-1ywl.html

A bill that aims to pay compensation to victims of the stolen generations will be examined by a Senate committee.

Democrats Senator Andrew Bartlett on Wednesday said the Senate Legal and Constitutional Committee would hold an inquiry into his Stolen Generation Compensation Bill 2008.

Under the bill, applicants - who could include living descendants of indigenous stolen generation members - would be paid out of a Stolen Generations Fund.

Ex-gratia payments would be set at $20,000 as a common experience payment with an additional $3,000 for each year of institutionalisation.



'Rescue our kids from chaos'

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23443994-2702,00.html

INDIGENOUS people increasingly support the idea of removing children from the "chaos and confusion" of Aboriginal communities by placing them in boarding schools and hostels, says Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin.

Speaking at The Australian's New Agenda for Prosperity conference in Melbourne yesterday, she described Aurukun, in Cape York, which she has just visited, as a "broken community" and "as tragic a place as any of us can find anywhere in this country".

She said the strong message she received in Aurukun, where alcoholism, violence and pornography were rife, was "we have to get out of this chaos, we have to get our children out of this chaos".

Her comments came as veteran indigenous leader Galarrwuy Yunupingu called for mission-style dormitories to be re-established in the Northern Territory for Aboriginal communities to ensure Aboriginal children were fed, clothed and clean.

"The missionary days were good. The missionaries looked after the kids much better than the Government does today," hesaid.

His comments were strongly supported last night by indigenous academic Marcia Langton, who said dormitories or boarding schools could give children a "break from failure".

"Where you have unacceptably low attendance rates among children, boarding schools would provide an opportunity for parents who care about their children and want them to have an education to put them in an educational environment that is conducive to succeeding. Many Aboriginal parents do it already."

She said a number of outstanding Aboriginal leaders had emerged from boarding colleges. "I think we need a break from failure," she said. "Boarding schools, or community dormitories, were a way to get children into circumstances where they are safe and healthy."



Canada apologizes for failing natives

http://news.smh.com.au/world/canada-apologizes-for-failing-natives-20080612-2pe9.html

Canada's prime minister officially apologized to natives for more than a century of abuses at boarding schools set up to assimilate its indigenous peoples.

"The government of Canada sincerely apologizes and asks the forgiveness of the aboriginal peoples of this country for failing them so profoundly," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in the House of Commons Wednesday.

"We are sorry."

Flanked by MPs, native leaders in traditional garments and Indian Residential School alumni, many holding back tears, Harper said: "The treatment of children in Indian Residential Schools is a sad chapter in our history."

He acknowledged "two primary objectives of the residential school system were to remove and isolate children from the influence of their home, families, traditions, and cultures and to assimilate them in to the dominant culture.

"These objectives were based on the assumption that aboriginal cultures and spiritual beliefs were inferior and unequal," he said.

"The government now recognizes that the consequences of the Indian Residential Schools policy were profoundly negative and that this policy has had a lasting and damaging impact on aboriginal culture, heritage, and language."

Beginning in 1874, 150,000 Indian, Inuit and Metis children in Canada were forcibly enrolled in the 132 boarding schools run by Christian churches on behalf of the federal government in an effort to integrate them into society.

Many survivors alleged abuse by headmasters and teachers, who stripped them of their culture and language.

As well, they say their education left them disconnected from their families, communities and feeling "ashamed" of being born native.

It was "the darkest chapter in Canada's history," said Chief Phil Fontaine of the Assembly of First Nations. "They tried to kill the Indian in the child, to eradicate any sense of Indian-ness from Canada," he told AFP.

Wearing an Indian feather headdress, his voice cracking, Fontaine told the House, following Harper: "The attempts to erase our identities hurt us deeply. But it also hurt all Canadians and impoverished the character of this nation."

"The memories of residential schools sometimes cut like merciless knives at our souls," he said. "But this day will help us to put that pain behind us."

"For the generations that will follow us, we bear witness today in this House that our survival as First Nations peoples in this land is affirmed forever."

"We still have to struggle, but now we are in this together," Fontaine said.
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First Australians
Reply #184 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 6:34pm
 
Did anyone catch this series on SBS? The more I learn about this, the more I'm surprised at how recent and how extensive the mistreatment of aborigines was. This should be taught in high school history. I think we are mature enough to handle it.

http://www.sbs.com.au/firstaustralians/
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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #185 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 7:10pm
 

The aborigines were probably amongst the worst treated peoples that england settled in.


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