Sprintcyclist wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 11:07pm:


It's not arrogant at all lol.

No, you quoting the Qur'an doesn't make you ignorant. The problem is the intention behind you doing so. You are quoting the Qur'an and misrepresenting it in an attempt to make it look like Islam is inherently violent. The problem with that is that you don't have enough of an understanding of the Qur'an or history to know what the verses you're pasting are in talking about.

I wont quote the bible simply because I feel no need to do so, I know that it's quite easy to find verses that would really make Christianity look barbaric if I wished to twist it as you try to do with Quranic verses.. But I know after studying Christianity properly with the right intentions that it is not a violent religion. I'm not here to score points against Christianity however, it's not how I do things.

I can clarify your concerns or queries about the Qur'an and Islam and that's about all I'm prepared to do, that in addition to participating in other topics.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 26^th, 2008 at 12:08am:

No, I have too much respect for Christianity to do that.

I question Islam all of the time. That is how I became a Shia Muslim after many years of being a Sunni.

Oh and regarding my assumption that you have a lack of understanding of the Quran and history.

Well it's very simple really. The accusations you post are offensive because the way you try and present Islam is unbalanced and in fact completely wrong.

I would hope that you do that out of ignorance instead of actually knowing the truth and ignoring them to try and portray Islam as inherently violent when it clearly is not.

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 26^th, 2008 at 12:08am:


Whatever makes you think Christianity has any association with freedom of speech??!!

Matthew 10:34-36

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Luke 12:49-53

I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 22:36

But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one."

Gospel of Thomas

Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone.

muso wrote on May 26^th, 2008 at 11:49am:

In Islam we have eye for an eye, but only according to the law and certainly not within a non Islamic state.. It is the law of equity, if someone murders a person, they get the death penalty providing it can be proven it was them. However, we are also encouraged to forgive those who wrong us.

Because how can we expect mercy from God if we cannot be merciful to others?





But we are also taught that even though

An eye for an eye is not a christian thing.
it is in the old test, hence a jewish one

unsurprisingly, the koran has regressed and uses it


helium - the quotes from jesus point to some people of a family will become christians, others not. This causes a variance.
This quote shows the free will in becoming a christian.
Something mohammad did not afford some of his captives.

What Jesus did divided the world. 
Since then christians were and are persecuted.



helium - it is customary to give the verse either side, to put it in context.
See, Jesus was clearly reprimanding them for that.

"Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
     "Nothing," they answered.

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

Luke 22: 35-37

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 26^th, 2008 at 1:30pm:

Jesus pbuh did not change the old divine laws which were revealed to Moses pbuh.

In fact in Matthew 5:17-20 he stated:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus pbuh however did promote forgiveness for crimes against us and this can be seen many times in the bible, in fact the Qur'an holds this position very clearly.

005.045
We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

The Qur'an promotes forgiveness as being that which is best for ourselves and best for our own atonement.. But does not make it compulsory because undoubtedly some situations do deserve the law of equity or Qisas to be applied. To an extent I think that it comes down one's faith in God, if they demand Qisas in petty matters than certainly it shows a lower level of faith in my opinion.

I think I will clarify for you about Muhammad "forcing" Islam on others. This simply didn't happen at all. In fact the Qur'an is very clear on this issue:

002.256
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Muslims are not allowed to compel others to take Islam on as a religion and to be quite honest it has been those followers of "Christianity" who have been the most guilty of this crime. In Africa, Latin America, The Middle East and other places around the world hundreds of millions of people were either murdered or forced to take on Christianity as their religion and be "saved".

With Islam however history has proven that in the great majority of cases, when the State was being run as it should people were allowed to practice their own religions without fear of persecution. Look and see who, throughout history had protected the rights of Jews to practice their religions. We had a huge population under the Islamic State, living in Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Palestine and even today in Iran.

Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews have always been guaranteed their own freedom to practice their religions under the Islamic State, they had their own places of worship, their own elected clergy, their rights to protection etc.

We remember the hordes of savages (the Crusaders) that came and invaded the holy land under the order of the Pope to force the Muslims out. The fact can be seen quite clearly, when the Crusaders entered Jerusalem they brutally slaughtered every man, woman and child (which included those following Christianity, Islam and Judaism). However, when Salahudeen Ayoube liberated Jerusalem he allowed the Crusaders to leave providing that they paid a ransom on themselves as compensation and they were escorted to ships and sent back to Europe. This is so evident by the recent Pope's own apology for such a horrendous campaign of terror.

So please don't waste our time and tell us how Christians are being persecuted by Muslims when the facts of history point directly towards the followers "Christianity" for the most brutal persecution, not Islam.

Jesus fulfilled the Old laws, so they no longer isolate us from God.



"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person.
If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Matthew 5:38,39


yes, mohammad strongly coerced others to his brand new made up belief.
remember the battle of trenches ?
Feel free to post up the gory story here.


what is the situation in saudi arabia concerning christians ??
How come 100% there are muslims?

No fibbing now.

better if you open specific threads for specific topics.
Do one for the crusaders.