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drought assistance (Read 12036 times)
freediver
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #15 - Jan 12th, 2007 at 10:42am
 
I'm pretty sure Australia is a net food exporter, so food shortages would be the least of our worries. You could make the same argument about the steel industry, or just about any other industry. It doesn't justify subsidisation. The outcome of modern warfare is dictated by the strength of your economy, not how many people you have for cannon fodder or how much food you can grow.
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #16 - Jan 12th, 2007 at 1:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 12th, 2007 at 10:42am:
I'm pretty sure Australia is a net food exporter, so food shortages would be the least of our worries. You could make the same argument about the steel industry, or just about any other industry. It doesn't justify subsidisation. The outcome of modern warfare is dictated by the strength of your economy, not how many people you have for cannon fodder or how much food you can grow.


Yes we do export a lot of dry goods like wheat and sugar but what about Dairy products and livestock and fresh food like vegetables all reliant on water.

Yes, I would make the same argument about Steel as an example if Australia had a labour shortage and the Steel Industry couldn't get any labour they would recieve a subsidy allowing them to offer more income for staff. For the stability of the country economically. Sometimes we need to look at the butterfly effect and ask ourselves "what would happen if we didn't subsidise and who would it affect?".

In case of war we would be a support service for the US. Let's take for example, we went to war with Iran thus upsetting China, Russia and many other countries who may put a trade embargo on us and the coalition of the willing. Yes, this is economic war, which effects everyone in the country.

Another way to look at this is classifying it as a natural disaster. Did you complain when Newcastle residence recieved government assistance after the earthquake? Well, that was a natural disaster but not prolonged like a drought. Whilst a drought is classified as a natural disaster these people are only experiencing equality no matter how rich they already are.

Do we begrudge them equality?


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freediver
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Drought policies hurting farmers: ABARE
Reply #17 - Jan 12th, 2007 at 1:36pm
 
The earthquake thing I wouldn't have a problem with. But not a drought because that is just part of doing business in agriculture. It comes once every decade or two and should be taken into account.

If there was a war on I think we could forgo milk.



Drought policies hurting farmers: ABARE

http://news.smh.com.au/drought-policies-hurting-farmers-abare/20080304-1wr8.html

Australia's chief commodity forecaster has issued a blunt warning ahead of a review of drought assistance funding: slam on the brakes or sentence struggling farmers to decades of financial ruin.

Current drought assistance policies encourage struggling farmers to remain on the land, run down their assets and accumulate debt, Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resources Economics (ABARE) head Phillip Glyde says.

The most pressing concern for farmers was how to boost productivity to offset the impact of the federal government's flagged carbon emissions trading scheme (CETS), due to get underway in 2010, Mr Glyde told the Outlook 2008 conference in Canberra.

Even though agriculture was expected to be initially excluded from the scheme, emission dependent costs such as electricity, fertiliser and fuel would rise, and hit farmers hard.
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« Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2008 at 12:26pm by freediver »  

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Re: drought assistance
Reply #18 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:31pm
 
Shame all the good land is covered with cement and tar in the way of cities and suburban sprawls.
At least they're growing yellow people.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #19 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:43pm
 
Jasin wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:31pm:
Shame all the good land is covered with cement and tar in the way of cities and suburban sprawls.
At least they're growing yellow people.


its actually going to become a major issue xavier.

a lot fo the good farmland is being turned into suburbia

more worrying is that the average age of a farmer in OZ is now  59 (61 in the usa)

its unlikely you will get people to replace them

in the USA they have 4 % unemployment but for every person in that 4 % there are 4 more , often under 40 who dont participate.

america has over 6 million men under 40 who are not working or studying and who are being supported by parents or partners and really do nothing but play games , smoke dope and watch porn.

thats your replacement farmers right there but there is zero chance they will do it. most couldnt hack 8 hours in an air conditioned woolworths.

covid made this a lot worse with sit down money and a lot of young people dont think they really need to work.

so food production is going to be a lot more expensive in the future.
farmers are too old and cant get the labor.
their kids , like mine, do a trade and head off to the city or the mines
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #20 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:48pm
 
Agree Aqua.
From my immediate experience. Seeing the nice fertile Western Sydney (Basin) vanish in the last 10 years to road and infrastructure upgrades for rail lines to the new Airport at Badgery's, the Suburbs that have sprung up everywhere with 750,000 homes proposed just for the Picton - Douglas Park areas and surrounds.

With all the surrounding pollution building up - there is no way you would want a smog-infused fruit or vege from there anymore.

Civilisation can be real 'primitive' sometimes, if not a lot.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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freediver
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #21 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:52pm
 
Quote:
Shame all the good land is covered with cement and tar


All of it?
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Jasin
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #22 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:59pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:52pm:
Quote:
Shame all the good land is covered with cement and tar


All of it?

Yes. All gone FD, sorry to say.
That's why the 'Foodbowl' of Australia is in the Riverina and they need heaps of Canals and Irrigation systems to make it 'provide'. Rice Farms with their 5 year warranty, leave behind 'salt wastes' past their used by dates.

Do you think White Man Farming is pretty primitive FD?
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #23 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:01pm
 
What makes you think it is all gone?
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #24 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 8:52pm:
Quote:
Shame all the good land is covered with cement and tar


All of it?



not all of it but in se qld, pretty much everything east of the dividing range is being suburbanised.

and thats your best riverflat land.

west of the dividing range is only good for sheep and cows and even the beef is all routinely sent to feedlots for fattening on crops (crops which need river flats)
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #25 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:07pm
 
near me, until 4 years ago you couldnt split a land parcel to anything under 220 acres (so as to preserve grazing and cropping land).

now you can split anything

a great farm near me that has river frontage just got split into 12  "lifestyle" blocks .
mainly for victorians moving up here.

its happening everywhere

you cant blame the farmer when he got around 600 k for each block
thats 7.2 million.
good luck selling beef worth that  Wink
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #26 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:01pm:
What makes you think it is all gone?

It's all gone! Sorry FD.
I've just given you the Riverina reason.
Also, with Food prices going up in our own country - you know that good land is hard to find.
How many Farmers have coughed up since this OP you made?
Heaps I'm sure.
Seems Whiteys stuffed up here FD. Paying more for 'less' good land produce.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #27 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:13pm
 
Water management policies have been hurting farmers for a long time now...
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #28 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:22pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:13pm:
Water management policies have been hurting farmers for a long time now...


And there's that as well. Post 1800's and the waterways of this country have gone from 'crystal clear' to turd-brown and silted.

Seems White Man has tried to force this Land to adhere to European and other Farming methods and crops/herds/etc.
Rather than change the methods and produce to adhere to this Land.
Talk about 'plane against the grain'  Roll Eyes
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: drought assistance
Reply #29 - Mar 20th, 2023 at 6:55am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2007 at 3:25pm:
Drought assistance is a subsidy you get by remaining on the land. It is free money from the government that is conditional on remaining on the land. Thus it is a subsidy for staying there, regardless of what the intention is.



I don't believe that to be true....... if it were there would be no need for charities like "Buy a Bale" & a few others who raised funds to buy feed to take to drought ravaged areas.

It's not always the areas that you call "inappropriate use" that are drought declared.... quite often it's in some of the most productive areas.

And there are  conditions to drought relief e.g. much of it is in the form of low interest loans that have to be repaid.

The whole Murray Darling Basin Authority system is what has turned country formally deemed sheep & cattle grazing only into corporate agriculture the whole length of the system from QLD through NSW into Victoria & Sth Australia.

Where water allocations are bought & traded like a stock exchange commodity.

That's what forces Mum & Dad farmers off the land and promotes vast corporate farms that grow crops that take more & more water from the system.

In fact some corporate agriculture groups didn't even grow crops on some properties because they made more money trading water allocations.

That's why there was an investigation into the whole sorry corrupt mess.
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