When the touchscreen goes kaput nothing really works on the Tesla.

Replacing touchscreens every 5 years is going to be costly since Tesla don't allow anyone outside of tesla to work on their sh!tboxes.


Quote:

Tesla says its faulty touchscreens that led to a recall were only built to last 5-6 years Tesla agreed this week to recall more than 134,000 vehicles with flash memory units that may wear out unexpectedly, rendering the cars’ touchscreens useless in some cases, but it didn’t go down without a fight. In a letter to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration made public on Tuesday, Elon Musk’s electric automaker claimed its screens weren’t failing prematurely — they were just designed that way. Tesla’s legal chief, Al Prescott, pushed back against the regulator’s definition of a “defect,” arguing that the eMMC memory devices in question were only built to last five to six years. He said that lifespan is standard for infotainment systems in the industry. “While the wear rate is heavily influenced by the active use of the centre display system, even more so when the vehicle is in drive or charging, given a reasonable average daily use of 1.4 cycles, the expected life would be 5-6 years,” Prescott said. “The eMMC flash memory … is inherently subject to wear, has a finite life (as NHTSA itself acknowledges), and may need replacement during the useful life of the vehicle.” Prescott went on to argue that it would be unreasonable for federal regulators to expect electronic parts to function properly for the entire lifetime of a vehicle, given that “electronic components are becoming increasingly more complex while, at the same time, the expected useful life of vehicles has grown substantially. “It is economically, if not technologically, infeasible to expect that such components can or should be designed to last the vehicle’s entire useful life,” Prescott said. Teslas are unique in that nearly all of their basic functions — from climate control, to motors, seats, and brakes — are run by a computer system. That’s useful for Tesla as it can beam out over-the-air software updates that meaningfully change the car’s behaviour, something no other automaker can currently do. It also means, however, that if the computer or display fails, plenty of crucial features can go with it. The recall affects Model S sedans built between 2012 and 2018, along with Model X crossovers built between 2016 and 2018. According to the NHTSA, failing displays could affect essential safety functions like the backup camera, turn signals, and defogger. Tesla is recalling 134,951 vehicles in total, fewer than the roughly 158,000 cars the NHTSA initially said were impacted. It has also rolled out firmware updates that it says address the issues and alert customers when their display is near failure. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/tesla-computer-touchscreen-recall-nhtsa-designed-for-6-years-2021-2?utm_campaign=sf-bi-ti&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR3Mg1qPeDMADjSeZciIVK0Zy3wLHNF49-wmvej7m7F5gK5uDqpqqS-sSS0&r=US&IR=T

It almost amounts to corporate criminality.   [extortion, is a crime!]

Doesn't it ?

Designed-in redundancy [demanding 'up-grades'].



Price gouging of dependent users, who would reasonably expect such devices to last decades.

Q.
What happens on Mars, when the touchscreens in the Mars colony, all begin to fail ?

Will Tesla send a technician from Earth, to install new touchscreens on all of the colony's devices ?     :(

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole....

(just had to make a clean sweep of the forum titles...... apart from feedback, which they never want me to post on... why?  I know why...)

Yadda wrote on Feb 9^th, 2021 at 10:37pm:

It almost amounts to corporate criminality.   [extortion, is a crime!] Doesn't it ? Designed-in redundancy [demanding 'up-grades']. Price gouging of dependent users, who would reasonably expect such devices to last decades. Q. What happens on Mars, when the touchscreens in the Mars colony, all begin to fail ? Will Tesla send a technician from Earth, to install new touchscreens on all of the colony's devices ?     :(

It's called "planned obsolescence", and while I don't much care for it in principle (as a consumer), you've been living under a rock if you think it is a "recent" thing...I don't see any other Corporations being charged with "extortion" by building things with the idea that consumers will need to replace them withiin a finite (often defined) time frame...

It's not built-in obsolescence.

Touch screens wear out, simple. Tesla are over priced but when a lekky car is cheaper, replacing a touch screen after 5 years will be no big deal deal when you haven't needed to do an oil change and you've done the breaks once.

Gordon wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 8:32am:

It's not built-in obsolescence. Touch screens wear out, simple. Tesla are over priced but when a lekky car is cheaper, replacing a touch screen after 5 years will be no big deal deal when you haven't needed to do an oil change and you've done the breaks once.

THats what I was thinking myself. TOuch screens etc will wear out. I'm sure the new fandangled 3-D virtual cockpits you see now in cars will break down.

This is clearly planned obsolescence by Tesla because mobile phone touchscreens easily last more than 5 years. I have never experienced a mobile phone touchscreen failure in 20+ years of using mobile phones with touchscreens.

If this is a real issue Suppliers will emerge who can supply better replacement touchscreens if Tesla doesn't block non-Tesla replacement parts.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 11:54am:

This is clearly planned obsolescence by Tesla because mobile phone touchscreens easily last more than 5 years. I have never experienced a mobile phone touchscreen failure in 20+ years of using mobile phones with touchscreens. If this is a real issue Suppliers will emerge who can supply better replacement touchscreens if Tesla doesn't block non-Tesla replacement parts.

You could make a case either way.

But as the worthies above have pointed out, they (the touch screens) may well come to be viewed as a "service item" in years to come...if the failed part is a few hundred to replace, probably no big deal. A few thousand, on the other hand...different story.

Perhaps the expectation is that the new breed of electric cars will themselves be a "replace every few years" kind of consumer item?

You can't touch this.

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 7:04am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 9th, 2021 at 10:37pm: It almost amounts to corporate criminality.   [extortion, is a crime!] Doesn't it ? Designed-in redundancy [demanding 'up-grades']. Price gouging of dependent users, who would reasonably expect such devices to last decades. Q. What happens on Mars, when the touchscreens in the Mars colony, all begin to fail ? Will Tesla send a technician from Earth, to install new touchscreens on all of the colony's devices ?     :( It's called "planned obsolescence", and while I don't much care for it in principle (as a consumer), you've been living under a rock if you think it is a "recent" thing...I don't see any other Corporations being charged with "extortion" by building things with the idea that consumers will need to replace them withiin a finite (often defined) time frame...

do you not think if it was normal for something as important as a touchscreen with such a short life it should at least be mentioned in the manual that is supplied with the car?..... just about everything that has to be replaced in a car is noted   why not this???...

When I think about you I touch my screen.

replacing a touch screen has gotta be cheaper than replacing a timing belt, gaskets, air filters, oil filters, coolant, spark plugs, clutch etc etc

tesla bashers have no idea

cods wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 6:51pm:

do you not think if it was normal for something as important as a touchscreen with such a short life it should at least be mentioned in the manual that is supplied with the car?..... just about everything that has to be replaced in a car is noted   why not this???...

Have you even seen the manual for a tesla cods? or are you just pretending again?

People with fingers like cavendish bananas shouldn't be allowed to drive electric cars or touch anything.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 7:05pm:

People with fingers like cavendish bananas shouldn't be allowed to drive electric cars or touch anything.

Hi, pedo supporter, are you talking about Aussie, the kid pinner who pins children against trees with his big hands?

https://i.ibb.co/1LqT0t6/Aussie-pinning-a-kid-against-a-tree-full-text.jpg

Gordon wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 7:59pm:

Hi, pedo supporter, are you talking about Aussie, the kid pinner who pins children against trees with his big hands?

It's banana-fingers Haji Gordon that is the problem.

I don't support pedos or Banana-fingers Haji Gordon.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 8:51pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2021 at 7:59pm: Hi, pedo supporter, are you talking about Aussie, the kid pinner who pins children against trees with his big hands? It's banana-fingers Haji Gordon that is the problem. I don't support pedos or Banana-fingers Haji Gordon.

Nope, you vouch for pedos and big hands Aussie the kid pinner

https://i.ibb.co/1LqT0t6/Aussie-pinning-a-kid-against-a-tree-full-text.jpg

Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 8:51pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2021 at 7:59pm: Hi, pedo supporter, are you talking about Aussie, the kid pinner who pins children against trees with his big hands? It's banana-fingers Haji Gordon that is the problem. I don't support pedos or Banana-fingers Haji Gordon.

Three-finger Haji is getting excited again.

Let's hope the blood running to his minuscule appendage isn't starving his microscopic brain of oxygen.

And of course, let's hope he's not fingering any natives on the back of a bus.

Aussie will be wondering about his grand nieces period right about now, or maybe he's fantasising about pinning kids to trees?

https://i.ibb.co/1LqT0t6/Aussie-pinning-a-kid-against-a-tree-full-text.jpg

Gordon wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 9:10pm:

Aussie will be wondering about his grand nieces period right about now, or maybe he's fantasising about pinning kids to trees?

Do all social deviants like Banana-fingers Haji Gordon dream and fantasize about the sexual fantasies of others.

Do all social deviants like Banana-fingers Haji Gordon have a life of their own or do they have to live vicariously through the lives of others.

Do all social deviants like Banana-fingers Haji Gordon have enlarged nostrils?

Do all social deviants like Banana-fingers Haji Gordon engorge touch screens into their nostrils to induce sexual fantasies?

UnsubRocky is not the only person with a rat problem

John Smith wrote on Feb 10^th, 2021 at 7:02pm:

replacing a touch screen has gotta be cheaper than replacing a timing belt, gaskets, air filters, oil filters, coolant, spark plugs, clutch etc etc tesla bashers have no idea

Firstly, the "Touch Screen" in the Tesla would seem to be considerably more critical to the operation of the vehicle than those in more conventional vehicles.


Quote:

"Driving along and the entire display and dashboard goes black. Cannot monitor speed or anything else, but the car continues to operate.” An owner in Michigan shared the experience he had with his screen: "It just goes blank and none of the features are accessible." A screen problem can limit the driver’s ability to control many systems. A California owner of a 2017 Model S told us in a CR survey: "After one of Tesla's automatic software updates, my screen stopped working correctly, froze sometimes, would turn off and on every 10 seconds, GPS would freeze, music would play for 10 seconds, stop and then start again, etc. Because it also controls the climate, it's problematic. And worst of all, took a month to get an appointment to have someone look at it. Not what I expect from a $100,000+ car." Another 2017 Model S owner wrote in a recent survey: "On start the central display failed to boot up. In fact after several attempts, the service people had to replace the entire central console (screen)." As these examples illustrate, problems can and do happen with the screens. (You can find ratings of 17 reliability trouble spots and comments from owners on the car model pages at CR.org/cars.) Looking at the history of in-car electronics for these vehicles, we find a track record of below-average reliability for the Model S and a rocky one for the Model X. The need to replace hardware in a new, expensive vehicle can be frustrating and inconvenient, especially if it has to be done more than once. Another owner from Washington state told Consumer Reports he had the MCU replaced three times on a 2012 Model S with 41,000 miles, and had to pay $2,200 for the last repair because it was out of warranty.

So, the MCU failures would appear to affect a number of critical functions, depending on the model of car/touchscreen (including speedo).

Secondly, the replacement of mechanical components in an ICE vehicle would be more analogous to the replacement of "equivalent" components in an electric vehicles (such as batteries/anything associated with the electric motor/s, and running gear they have more or less "in common" with ICE vehicles, no?

None of that should be read to infer that I'm "anti-Tesla", per se, although I wouldn't be looking at any electric vehicle until they are considerably cheaper to run and own (noting that Tesla ran last in a recent JD Power "problems per X number of vehicles" survey). Perhaps an N-1 or N-2 version could be in order...

On the OP, it would seem that it isn't an issue of planned obsolescence. Nor is it an issue of "Touchscreens" per se (given that that part of the device should be able to last a reasonable amount of time, dependent on type).

It actually appears to be a fault in terms of design or execution.


Quote:

The potentially faulty part is an NVIDIA Tegra 3 processor with an integrated 8GB flash memory device. Each time the vehicle is started, part of the memory is consumed in the flash device, until all the memory is used up, leading to a failure of the MCU.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/nhtsa-asks-tesla-to-recall-model-s-model-x-touch-screen-safety-issues/

It may not be planned obsolescence, but it amounts to the same thing. Tesla is not unique in this matter. I am not a complete Luddite, but I would like to see an EV that didn't try to be futuristic just for its own sake; a basic vehicle, no video, no cameras, no internet, no computer control, or as little as possible.

issuevoter wrote on Feb 13^th, 2021 at 12:38pm:

It may not be planned obsolescence, but it amounts to the same thing. Tesla is not unique in this matter. I am not a complete Luddite, but I would like to see an EV that didn't try to be futuristic just for its own sake; a basic vehicle, no video, no cameras, no internet, no computer control, or as little as possible.

I'd buy one of those.



Watched a doco a year or two back, Tata in India had a go, at making a basic, fully enclosed, VERY CHEAP, petrol sedan vehicle, designed to appeal to the Indian masses.

I think it had a small, 2 cylinder motor ?


WWW search.....
India Nano vehicle

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 11^th, 2021 at 7:26am:

Firstly, the "Touch Screen" in the Tesla would seem to be considerably more critical to the operation of the vehicle than those in more conventional vehicles.

So what happens to conventional vehicles when your timing belt goes?  Or the clutch? or even the oil and you don't replace it?

A tesla is just like any other vehicle ... if a critical part stops working you pull over and call a tow truck. Much like every other car out there.


Mix_Master wrote on Feb 11^th, 2021 at 7:26am:

Secondly, the replacement of mechanical components in an ICE vehicle would be more analogous to the replacement of "equivalent" components in an electric vehicles (such as batteries/anything associated with the electric motor/s, and running gear they have more or less "in common" with ICE vehicles, no?

No.I don't agree. I think you're just trying to make the problem sound worse than it is by pretending the problem is worse. A critical component in an ice vehicle is no different than the touch screen in a tesla. At least when the screen goes blank you can still drive until you can pull over safely.

John Smith wrote on Feb 13^th, 2021 at 5:08pm:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 11th, 2021 at 7:26am: Firstly, the "Touch Screen" in the Tesla would seem to be considerably more critical to the operation of the vehicle than those in more conventional vehicles. So what happens to conventional vehicles when your timing belt goes?  Or the clutch? or even the oil and you don't replace it? A tesla is just like any other vehicle ... if a critical part stops working you pull over and call a tow truck. Much like every other car out there. Mix_Master wrote on Feb 11th, 2021 at 7:26am: Secondly, the replacement of mechanical components in an ICE vehicle would be more analogous to the replacement of "equivalent" components in an electric vehicles (such as batteries/anything associated with the electric motor/s, and running gear they have more or less "in common" with ICE vehicles, no? No.I don't agree. I think you're just trying to make the problem sound worse than it is by pretending the problem is worse. A critical component in an ice vehicle is no different than the touch screen in a tesla. At least when the screen goes blank you can still drive until you can pull over safely.

Herein lies the "crux" of the issue. The items you mention are service items. Attend to them regularly, (i.e. "service" them), and you should never be stranded on the side of the road. We had the timing belt (plus water pump, idlers etc. and ancillary belts) replaced in our little Corolla a few years back. Maybe $600 all-up (including Labour). Good for another 150,000kms (or somewhere between 12-15 years given the kms we do in the car).

The clutch is still the original one (car has ~210,000kms on the clock) and is still gong well. Helps that both of us know how to properly use and look after a clutch. Naturally, I check clutch fluid and the system itself for leaks...might be time for a fluid change soon, now that I think of it.

Oil?

Literally a half hour exercise in either of our cars...and most of that is allowing for it to drain properly. Oil at around $40 and filters at $15. I supply my own labour for free. ;)

Most other service items (plugs, filters, brakes etc.) are easy, DIY replacement items, which can be had aftermarket for very little money.

How does one (self) service a poorly implemented touch screen (or more correctly, an MCU) which controls a myriad of functions in the car, as an end-user? Preemptively replace it (at ~$USD2200) every few years, just so it doesn't put you down somewhere?

How many user-serviceable parts would an EV actually have? Maybe they come with a "No user serviceable parts inside" warning label ;)

As I noted earlier, I regard the current crop of electric vehicles as "N" versions.

From a technology perspective, I'd be waiting a while before considering purchasing one (at N-1 or 2), because I think there are "teething" issues - including a poorly designed/implemented "control centre" - that I wouldn't be comfortable with.

Let other mug punters whinge to the manufacturers enough so that they improve the overall package...and until the price of the vehicles themselves isn't so out of whack with the critical mass of ICE vehicles still being sold. When an entry level Nissan Leaf costs around $50K, well...

Which all ties in nicely with the thread I started elsewhere re: EV take-up.

Until the tech gets better, charging infrastructure improves, and the financial case stacks up a lot better than it currently does, they'll remain a niche product for very well-heeled (or heavily indebted) people...

EDIT: Far easier (and cheaper) to work on this, than an EV, as things currently stand...largely because I reckon that anything you'd need to do to an EV would be "dealer only".

---

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 14^th, 2021 at 10:33am:

The items you mention are service items

as are 'touch screens running teslas'


Mix_Master wrote on Feb 14^th, 2021 at 10:33am:

Attend to them regularly, (i.e. "service" them), and you should never be stranded on the side of the road.

and funnily enough tow companies exist because people do get stranded on the side of the road.


Mix_Master wrote on Feb 14^th, 2021 at 10:33am:

The clutch is still the original one (car has ~210,000kms on the clock) and is still gong well.

you're doing well if you get that many k's with one clutch.


Mix_Master wrote on Feb 14^th, 2021 at 10:33am:

Literally a half hour exercise in either of our cars...and most of that is allowing for it to drain properly. Oil at around $40 and filters at $15. I supply my own labour for free.

thats fine if you can do your own work. But most people can't service their own vehicles. Besides, I don't see why anybody competent with electronics can't also change their own touch screens. The real problem  however lies with the brains of the unit. Tesla most likely restricts access to it's 'brains' so that you can't do the work yourself. But that's not new. Mercedes and BMW, as most of the other luxury car brands, have been doing the same thing for decades. Take a sump plug off a merc without the proper programme attached via tablet or laptop and you'll need a tow truck.


Mix_Master wrote on Feb 14^th, 2021 at 10:33am:

From a technology perspective, I'd be waiting a while before considering purchasing one (at N-1 or 2), because I think there are "teething" issues - including a poorly designed/implemented "control centre" - that I wouldn't be comfortable with.

Until prices fall, most people won't be buying a new one. That's set to change in the next couple of years. I hear that Tesla is planning on releasing a car that will retail for about $40k (I think they were talking US$). When that happens then we'll see a start to the transition to electric.