Trump’s Iran policy takes a head-shaking turn toward incoherence[
09/12/19 10:51 AM—UPDATED 09/12/19 11:03 AM
By Steve Benen

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin spoke at a media briefing this week and argued that he, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Donald Trump are “completely aligned on our ‘maximum pressure’ campaign” against Iran. Mnuchin added that the policy is “absolutely working.”

The policy is absolutely not working. After the president walked away from the international nuclear agreement with Iran, the foreign adversary has become more dangerous, not less, As the Associated Press reported this week, “The United Nations’ atomic watchdog confirmed Monday that Iran is preparing to use more advanced centrifuges, another breach of limits set in the country’s slowly unraveling nuclear deal with major powers.”

There’s no great mystery behind the broader dynamic: Trump took a policy that was working as intended and abandoned it for reasons he struggled to explain. Iran responded, as expected, by accelerating the nuclear program that the JCPOA policy had kept in check. As Colin Kahl, an Obama administration veteran, recently explained, “Trump’s ‘maximum pressure’ campaign was supposed to induce Iran to scrap its nuclear program (which was already contained by the 2015 nuclear deal). Instead, Trump’s actions have incentivized Iran to restart it, creating a completely unnecessary crisis.”

Trump’s plan – to the extent that his whims can be credibly characterized as a “plan” – has been to use sanctions to force Iran to the negotiating table in order to reach a deal to limit its nuclear program. Once that happens, Trump believes, he can offer Iranian officials economic incentives to entice them into an agreement.

Or put another way, the Republican hopes to do what Barack Obama already did several years ago, striking a deal that Trump rejected.

Yesterday, as the New York Times reported, Trump sent an entirely different kind of signal.

President Trump appeared to take a step back from his administration’s “maximum pressure” campaign against Iran on Wednesday, leaving open the possibility of easing economic sanctions before starting new nuclear negotiations with Tehran.

Although he also warned Iran against restarting production of the material necessary to make a nuclear bomb – as the clerical government in Tehran has threatened – Mr. Trump made clear he was ready for diplomatic talks.

After the American president referenced sanctions on Iran, a reporter asked whether he’d consider easing the sanctions as part of a diplomatic olive branch. Trump didn’t rule it out, saying, “We’ll see what happens.”


Meanwhile, France has explored a $15 billion package that would effectively buy Iran’s compliance with the international nuclear agreement – dramatically undermining the White House’s “maximum pressure” gambit – and according to a Daily Beast report published yesterday, Trump “has left the impression with foreign officials, members of his administration, and others involved in Iranian negotiations that he is actively considering” the French plan.

Bloomberg News added that Trump has also already discussed easing sanctions on Iran – a move then-National Security Advisor John Bolton argued against shortly before he parted ways with the White House.

It may seem fairly routine for the Trump administration’s foreign policies to seem incoherent, but this is a dramatic example of the broader problem. As Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) noted via Twitter, “So Trump is going to give Iran $15 billion to come back into compliance with the agreement he tore up because it was the worst deal he had ever seen? My head hurts.”

Senator, you’re not alone.

The United States’ position started with sanctions, which forced Iran to the negotiating table. That led to a deal: Iran received economic relief; the United States and our partners received on-the-ground inspections and a curtailed nuclear threat.

Trump trashed that deal.

The Republican then adopted a “maximum pressure” campaign, featuring sanctions, which he thought would force Iran to the negotiating table, where Trump would offer economic relief in exchange for on-the-ground inspections and a curtailed nuclear threat.

The current U.S. president is now, however, prepared to undermine his own failing policy, eyeing financial support to Iran, which he hopes will entice Iran to the table, where Trump can offer more economic relief, which is the same thing he opposed when Obama struck the deal that was working before Trump tried to kill it.

Josh Barro added, “I don’t understand the point of withdrawing from the Iran deal and sanctioning Iran but then giving Iran financial aid to offset the effects of the sanctions in order to induce them to stay in the deal.”

Well, sure, when one puts it that way, it seems as if Trump’s entire policy is an incoherent joke.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-iran-policy-takes-head-shaking-turn-toward-incoherence

trump


keeping his enemies confused and bewildered as always.

sun tzu  would be proud

"Well, sure, when one puts it that way, it seems as if Trump’s entire policy existence is an incoherent joke."

aquascoot wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:34pm:

trump keeping his enemies confused and bewildered as always. sun tzu  would be proud

Good point. Here, Mr Trump scrapped Obama's deal with Iran, saw Iran start their nuclear program again, and now plans to drop the sanctions he reimposed - with a $15 billion compensation package.

Ah, the art of the deal, eh?

Yes, dear, Mr Trump certainly leaves his enemies guessing. What will Mr Trump do? They say.

Then they get all riled up and give Fat Steve and Janeen a headache.

A master stroke. Whoever would have thought Mr Trump would play games with nukes? And whoever thought he'd do a worse deal with Iran?

Cometh the hour, dear, cometh the man. And that man is reality-TV star, Mr Trump.

aquascoot wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:34pm:

trump keeping his enemies confused and bewildered as always. sun tzu  would be proud

Trump's friends are more confused than his enemies.

Predicting the flip-flopping machinations of Trump's gut is beyond human capabilities.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 6:00pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 13th, 2019 at 12:34pm: trump keeping his enemies confused and bewildered as always. sun tzu  would be proud Trump's friends are more confused than his enemies. Predicting the flip-flopping machinations of Trump's gut is beyond human capabilities.

enigmatic
difficult to predict
lots of plot changes
characters dissappearing
intrigue
uncertainty
what will happen tomorrow?


thats trump.


now if you look at what the public really love,
say a show like "game of thrones"
what do we see?


enigmatic
difficult to predict
lots of plot changes
characters dissappearing
intrigue
uncertainty
what will happen tomorrow.?

Trumps Iran 'plan' explains all his bankruptcies and failures. Everything he touches turns to crap and now we see why. Ona scale of 1 to 10, his ideas are a -5

aquascoot wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:34pm:

trump keeping his enemies confused and bewildered as always. sun tzu  would be proud

If Trump were a master tactician and this bumbling grandpa persona was just that, sure.

Unless Trump stops Iran the pic below shows the result.

If anybody else CAN stop Iran speak now or forever hold your peace.

---

Johnnie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2019 at 9:59am:

Unless Trump stops Iran the pic below shows the result. If anybody else CAN stop Iran speak now or forever hold your peace.

Oh, for fck's sake, Matty, Obama stopped Iran. Are you really that stupid? They're now back to the same nuclear weapons program thanks to you-know-who, and they're going leaps and bounds. You-know-who's now considering going back to the Obama deal and compensating them 15 billion.

Fake news, is it? Fake Trump quotes, eh?

No worries. So when he was asked about this (before he ducked into his conveniently-waiting chopper, the only place he takes questions now), why did he say we'll have to wait and see?

You're right though. Only Mr Trump can unwind his own sanctions. Genius.

Create a problem and find a solution. Aquascoot's right.

A master tactician, clearly.

The Obama (your hero) deal had run out not long after he left office, it was only a temporary patch up anyway so he could go on the Oprah show and tell everyone how he saved the world.

Why is it up to Trump to now save the world and why does the US have to be the worlds cops.

Iran wants nuclear arms and considering they are currently the worlds leading exporter of terrorism this will not end well.

They should call up your hero to see if he can patch things over again.

  I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more.

Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again!

Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone.

Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran.

So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions.

How are you haters going to spin this? eh!

Johnnie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 1:38am:

The Obama (your hero) deal had run out not long after he left office

Oh? So why did Europe stick to it and blame you-know-who for rescinding a binding deal?

Don't answer this, you're only going to make more stuff up. Why do you do it?

Answer that instead, dear.

Richdude wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 1:57am:

I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh!

Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they?

No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day.

The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh?

Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it.

Deep State, innit.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 2:14am:

Johnnie wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:38am: The Obama (your hero) deal had run out not long after he left office Oh? So why did Europe stick to it and blame you-know-who for rescinding a binding deal? Don't answer this, you're only going to make more stuff up. Why do you do it? Answer that instead, dear.

Europe hasn't done anything and the A bombs will be flying around everywhere unless Trump sorts out Iran for good.'

What did Trump say to Iran? something along the line of, no nuclear for you and no deals until that happens.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 2:19am:

Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit.

I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that.

The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally.

How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No?

Richdude wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 2:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit. I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that. The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally. How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No?

Sorry? Last post you said he wanted to meet with them, this post you're saying you don't know why he chose not to meet with them, but that his "actions" are for dialogue and understanding (after he's frozen their bank accounts, agricultural and pharmaceutical supplies).

Which is it to be, dear?

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 3:19am:

Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:52am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit. I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that. The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally. How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No? Sorry? Last post you said he wanted to meet with them, this post you're saying you don't know why he chose not to meet with them, but that his "actions" are for dialogue and understanding (after he's frozen their bank accounts, agricultural and pharmaceutical supplies). Which is it to be, dear?

Stop playing silly games, Karnal.

He refused but then but he wants to now!

I'm still awaiting a compliment for Trump from you. Let us know that you have some balance and come down on the side of peace and humanity.


Not too much to ask for is it? After all, you are a socialist and therefore on the side of peace! No?

While Karnal is searching his/her/neither soul here's a story about an ex Cuban.

Cuban Who Windsurfed for 90 Miles to Escape Socialism Warns America

https://youtu.be/_mnoFgQa69U

Richdude wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 4:20am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 3:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:52am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit. I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that. The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally. How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No? Sorry? Last post you said he wanted to meet with them, this post you're saying you don't know why he chose not to meet with them, but that his "actions" are for dialogue and understanding (after he's frozen their bank accounts, agricultural and pharmaceutical supplies). Which is it to be, dear? Stop playing silly games, Karnal. He refused but then but he wants to now!

Oh, I see. Silly me. Mr Trump refused to negotiate, but now Iran are back on the nukes he's happy to talk, eh?

Cunning. You wouldn't think imposing backbreaking sanctions on a regime would do that, would you? How was Mr Trump to know?

He's used to lawyers and bankers and TV executives, not this sort of riff-raff.

And no, he wasn't going to listen to Europe or McMasters or Obama. Why would he? Deep State, all of them.

It's not Mr Trump's fault, but he'll fix it up, you'll see. We'll win so much we'll get tired of winning.

And Iran will get 13 billion. Win-win, eh?

I can't see why you don't think I don't say anything nice about Mr Trump, dear. I'm more than generous about his negotiating skills.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 12:39pm:

Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 4:20am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 3:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:52am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit. I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that. The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally. How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No? Sorry? Last post you said he wanted to meet with them, this post you're saying you don't know why he chose not to meet with them, but that his "actions" are for dialogue and understanding (after he's frozen their bank accounts, agricultural and pharmaceutical supplies). Which is it to be, dear? Stop playing silly games, Karnal. He refused but then but he wants to now! Oh, I see. Silly me. Mr Trump refused to negotiate, but now Iran are back on the nukes he's happy to talk, eh? Cunning. You wouldn't think imposing backbreaking sanctions on a regime would do that, would you? How was Mr Trump to know? He's used to lawyers and bankers and TV executives, not this sort of riff-raff. And no, he wasn't going to listen to Europe or McMasters or Obama. Why would he? Deep State, all of them. It's not Mr Trump's fault, but he'll fix it up, you'll see. We'll win so much we'll get tired of winning. And Iran will get 13 billion. Win-win, eh? I can't see why you don't think I don't say anything nice about Mr Trump, dear. I'm more than generous about his negotiating skills.

The fact is Trump has agreed to meet the Iranian leaders.

He even offered to help Iran by giving them a loan - how nice!

So where's your compliment Karnal?

Richdude wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 1:48pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 12:39pm: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 4:20am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 3:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:52am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit. I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that. The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally. How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No? Sorry? Last post you said he wanted to meet with them, this post you're saying you don't know why he chose not to meet with them, but that his "actions" are for dialogue and understanding (after he's frozen their bank accounts, agricultural and pharmaceutical supplies). Which is it to be, dear? Stop playing silly games, Karnal. He refused but then but he wants to now! Oh, I see. Silly me. Mr Trump refused to negotiate, but now Iran are back on the nukes he's happy to talk, eh? Cunning. You wouldn't think imposing backbreaking sanctions on a regime would do that, would you? How was Mr Trump to know? He's used to lawyers and bankers and TV executives, not this sort of riff-raff. And no, he wasn't going to listen to Europe or McMasters or Obama. Why would he? Deep State, all of them. It's not Mr Trump's fault, but he'll fix it up, you'll see. We'll win so much we'll get tired of winning. And Iran will get 13 billion. Win-win, eh? I can't see why you don't think I don't say anything nice about Mr Trump, dear. I'm more than generous about his negotiating skills. The fact is Trump has agreed to meet the Iranian leaders. He even offered to help Iran by giving them a loan - how nice! So where's your compliment Karnal?

Now, let's see. What did you say when Obama released 18 bill held by Iranians in US banks as part of his deal?

Oh, that's right - you pretended the US government paid the money and you said what a terrible deal it was, yes?

Now Mr Trump really IS planning to hand over billions in government donations to Iran, you think it's nice.

Mr Trump must be the only businessman who renegotiates deals to pay them more, no?

Yes, until Mr Trump came along, Amerika was getting ripped off. Now they have the great negotiator, there's no stopping them.

God speed, Mr President.

Only one deal is on the table, no nuclear for the terrorists.

Johnnie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 10:36pm:

Only one deal is on the table, no nuclear for the terrorists.

Those terrorists are predicted to have an adequate nuclear weapons program by 2022, dear.

Like Kim, they'll be testing long-range missiles next, but they only need a missile that can get to the American Embassy in Jerusalem.

Still, Mr Trump won't have to campaign in 2022, so it's all good. He can just blame Obama and head off to the golf course, no?

Why didn"t Obama do that? Too chicken, eh?

Not Mr Trump. As a New York property developer, he's experienced the worst of the worst. He knows bad guys alright.

Plenty of them have apartments in Trump Tower.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 12:19am:

Johnnie wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 10:36pm: Only one deal is on the table, no nuclear for the terrorists. Those terrorists are predicted to have an adequate nuclear weapons program by 2022, dear. Like Kim, they'll be testing long-range missiles next, but they only need a missile that can get to the American Embassy in Jerusalem. Still, Mr Trump won't have to campaign in 2022, so it's all good. He can just blame Obama and head off to the golf course, no? Why didn"t Obama do that? Too chicken, eh? Not Mr Trump. As a New York property developer, he's experienced the worst of the worst. He knows bad guys alright. Plenty of them have apartments in Trump Tower.

I don't think so, Iran will not have nuclear weapons, nobody in the world wants them to have the bombs, they are just leaving it up to Trump to do the dirty work, which he seems un phased by.

Johnnie wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 12:28am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 12:19am: Johnnie wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 10:36pm: Only one deal is on the table, no nuclear for the terrorists. Those terrorists are predicted to have an adequate nuclear weapons program by 2022, dear. Like Kim, they'll be testing long-range missiles next, but they only need a missile that can get to the American Embassy in Jerusalem. Still, Mr Trump won't have to campaign in 2022, so it's all good. He can just blame Obama and head off to the golf course, no? Why didn"t Obama do that? Too chicken, eh? Not Mr Trump. As a New York property developer, he's experienced the worst of the worst. He knows bad guys alright. Plenty of them have apartments in Trump Tower. I don't think so, Iran will not have nuclear weapons, nobody in the world wants them to have the bombs, they are just leaving it up to Trump to do the dirty work, which he seems un phased by.

Oh, I know. So why do you think Mr Trump unwound Obama's dirty work?

That's a question.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 12:59am:

Johnnie wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 12:28am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 12:19am: Johnnie wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 10:36pm: Only one deal is on the table, no nuclear for the terrorists. Those terrorists are predicted to have an adequate nuclear weapons program by 2022, dear. Like Kim, they'll be testing long-range missiles next, but they only need a missile that can get to the American Embassy in Jerusalem. Still, Mr Trump won't have to campaign in 2022, so it's all good. He can just blame Obama and head off to the golf course, no? Why didn"t Obama do that? Too chicken, eh? Not Mr Trump. As a New York property developer, he's experienced the worst of the worst. He knows bad guys alright. Plenty of them have apartments in Trump Tower. I don't think so, Iran will not have nuclear weapons, nobody in the world wants them to have the bombs, they are just leaving it up to Trump to do the dirty work, which he seems un phased by. Oh, I know. So why do you think Mr Trump unwound Obama's dirty work? That's a question.

The question is invalid, Obamas dirty deal had run out shortly after he left office.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15^th, 2019 at 9:56pm:

Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:48pm: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 12:39pm: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 4:20am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 3:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:52am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 2:19am: Richdude wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 1:57am:   I think what karnal is trying to say in simpler terms is. "The harder you push the harder they push back". Threats, sanctions ..... just galvanizes the population to resist more. Oh, Mr Trump, you've done it again! Yes he has and will continue to do so until the tentacles of the deep state are gone. Sacking Bolton was the latest good news. And now Trump wants an unconditional meeting with the heads of Iran. So we have according to our Western news, Iran one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization on Earth that wants to nuke the rest of the World! What's their beef? Trump is doing what a REAL leader does - sitting down for discussions. How are you haters going to spin this? eh! Is he? So when the Iranian president turned up at the G7 with France and said he was happy to meet Mr Trump, did they? No, Mr Trump was out the door after 1 night and back at Bedminster for a few holes the following day. The secret service must have said it was all too hard, eh? Bad traffic, too wet for his helicopter, security concerns. Oh, Mr Trump wanted to, but they wouldn't let him do it. Deep State, innit. I don't know why Trump chose not to meet him - do you? Of course not - your just following anti Trump narratives. Possibly the way he negotiates - always chose the time and place - "Art of the Deal" - something like that. The fact is, if you weren't so blind in your hatred he is now meeting with the heads of Iran - unconditionally. How about some praise for Trump? Just to let us know that its not the man you hate but his actions. And his actions are for dialogue and understanding - worthwhile objectives! No? Sorry? Last post you said he wanted to meet with them, this post you're saying you don't know why he chose not to meet with them, but that his "actions" are for dialogue and understanding (after he's frozen their bank accounts, agricultural and pharmaceutical supplies). Which is it to be, dear? Stop playing silly games, Karnal. He refused but then but he wants to now! Oh, I see. Silly me. Mr Trump refused to negotiate, but now Iran are back on the nukes he's happy to talk, eh? Cunning. You wouldn't think imposing backbreaking sanctions on a regime would do that, would you? How was Mr Trump to know? He's used to lawyers and bankers and TV executives, not this sort of riff-raff. And no, he wasn't going to listen to Europe or McMasters or Obama. Why would he? Deep State, all of them. It's not Mr Trump's fault, but he'll fix it up, you'll see. We'll win so much we'll get tired of winning. And Iran will get 13 billion. Win-win, eh? I can't see why you don't think I don't say anything nice about Mr Trump, dear. I'm more than generous about his negotiating skills. The fact is Trump has agreed to meet the Iranian leaders. He even offered to help Iran by giving them a loan - how nice! So where's your compliment Karnal? Now, let's see. What did you say when Obama released 18 bill held by Iranians in US banks as part of his deal? Oh, that's right - you pretended the US government paid the money and you said what a terrible deal it was, yes? Now Mr Trump really IS planning to hand over billions in government donations to Iran, you think it's nice. Mr Trump must be the only businessman who renegotiates deals to pay them more, no? Yes, until Mr Trump came along, Amerika was getting ripped off. Now they have the great negotiator, there's no stopping them. God speed, Mr President.

Why are you lying Karnal? Is your argument that weak?

The 150 billion returned to Iran by Obama was money owned by Iran. Thats fair! However the undocumented 5 billion in cash given by the Obama administration to heads in Iran, Europe and the US was a payment for corrupt complicity. The Iranian foreign minister had the list of recipients but the MSM did not release the details.

Also Trump did not say he would GIVE Iran a grant however he did talk about a loan. Big difference!

Richdude wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 1:27am:

Why are you lying Karnal? Is your argument that weak? The 150 billion returned to Iran by Obama was money owned by Iran. Thats fair! However the undocumented 5 billion in cash given by the Obama administration to heads in Iran, Europe and the US was a payment for corrupt complicity. The Iranian foreign minister had the list of recipients but the MSM did not release the details. Also Trump did not say he would GIVE Iran a grant however he did talk about a loan. Big difference!

And so once again ladies and gentlemen Bitchrude hasn't a clue as to what he is talking about. Instead, he spews the usual regurgitated Reich-wing talking points he stole from a retarded "Prager U" website like the true dumbass he is.

A "loan", eh? How's he going to get it back?

And why would he give them a "loan" as compensation for his sanctions? That wouldn't make sense.

So you've wound your original claim back to Obama giving them an unsubstantiated 5 billion. But it's nice when Mr Trump compensates them with 13.

Yes, I suppose you're right, Rich. Mr Trump sounds really nice.

That's me saying something nice about Mr Trump, so you can't say I'm biased, dear.

You?

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 1:41am:

A "loan", eh? How's he going to get it back? And why would he give them a "loan" as compensation for his sanctions? That wouldn't make sense. So you've wound your original claim back to Obama giving them an unsubstantiated 5 billion. But it's nice when Mr Trump compensates them with 13. Yes, I suppose you're right, Rich. Mr Trump sounds really nice. That's me saying something nice about Mr Trump, so you can't say I'm biased, dear. You?

I assume he would encourage the IMF to make that loan.

The IMF loves to give loans especially to previously creditor nations (as long as the USD remains the Worlds currency). Once Iran is on the loan drip line its game over for them as a independent nation. Welcome to World hegemonic control!

So Iran represents several threats. One is to Israels control of the ME and the other is a break away from the USD.

That nice!

Richdude wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 2:19am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 1:41am: A "loan", eh? How's he going to get it back? And why would he give them a "loan" as compensation for his sanctions? That wouldn't make sense. So you've wound your original claim back to Obama giving them an unsubstantiated 5 billion. But it's nice when Mr Trump compensates them with 13. Yes, I suppose you're right, Rich. Mr Trump sounds really nice. That's me saying something nice about Mr Trump, so you can't say I'm biased, dear. You? I assume he would encourage the IMF to make that loan. The IMF loves to give loans especially to previously creditor nations (as long as the USD remains the Worlds currency). Once Iran is on the loan drip line its game over for them as a independent nation. Welcome to World hegemonic control! So Iran represents several threats. One is to Israels control of the ME and the other is a break away from the USD. That nice!

Yes, I'm sure Lagarde's going to stump up an IMF loan to compensate Iran for Mr Trump's sanctions.

She warned Mr Trump not to abandon the Obama deal too.

Mr Trump's not running out of friends, is he?

How do you think he plans to get those billions out of Congress?

aquascoot wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:34pm:

trump keeping his enemies confused and bewildered as always. sun tzu  would be proud

It is true that Trump's irrationality gives him an advantage. I think the problem lies not in his lack of rationality but his instability. When he goes down he will go down hard and take a lot of others down with him.

Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16^th, 2019 at 3:04am:

Richdude wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 2:19am: Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 1:41am: A "loan", eh? How's he going to get it back? And why would he give them a "loan" as compensation for his sanctions? That wouldn't make sense. So you've wound your original claim back to Obama giving them an unsubstantiated 5 billion. But it's nice when Mr Trump compensates them with 13. Yes, I suppose you're right, Rich. Mr Trump sounds really nice. That's me saying something nice about Mr Trump, so you can't say I'm biased, dear. You? I assume he would encourage the IMF to make that loan. The IMF loves to give loans especially to previously creditor nations (as long as the USD remains the Worlds currency). Once Iran is on the loan drip line its game over for them as a independent nation. Welcome to World hegemonic control! So Iran represents several threats. One is to Israels control of the ME and the other is a break away from the USD. That nice! Yes, I'm sure Lagarde's going to stump up an IMF loan to compensate Iran for Mr Trump's sanctions. She warned Mr Trump not to abandon the Obama deal too. Mr Trump's not running out of friends, is he? How do you think he plans to get those billions out of Congress?

You really do have no idea. Trump is not in charge.

Its more than just business - its control. A debtor nation is subservient to the creditor. The creditor being the IMF, World Bank or BIS. Iran is fighting for it independence - its right to make its own decisions.

Just look at 2 of the former "axis of evil" nations Libya and Iraq - both were creditor nations and sovereign but no longer. Why did Bush label a total of 7 nations thus? Were they really "evil"?

UCC - maritime law - innit!