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General Discussion >> Technically Speaking >> V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
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Message started by minarchist on May 10th, 2019 at 10:44am

Title: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by minarchist on May 10th, 2019 at 10:44am
Thought I'd give everyone a break from Tesla related threads. Pity Holden weren't making these before they stopped manufacturing permanently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ZkRuuU30E

http://racecast.com.au/

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 10th, 2019 at 1:34pm
The brutal unions made sure Holden had to leave Australia.

Wonder how they get the V12 to meet the emission reqs ?

The fuel thirst would be frightening!!! A V8 is bad enough.

Does it have twin turbos ?

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 10th, 2019 at 2:02pm

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 1:34pm:
The brutal unions made sure Holden had to leave Australia.

Wonder how they get the V12 to meet the emission reqs ?

The fuel thirst would be frightening!!! A V8 is bad enough.

Does it have twin turbos ?


Holden and Ford failed because they were foreign owned. Their foreign owners would not tolerate them competing in the owner's markets. Their products just became copies of their foreign owner's products financed by Australian government subsidies.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.

Ford and Holden ONLY persisted because the Labor "Govt" was laundering taxpayers' money through Ford and Holden to pay for the greedy unions excessive demands.

But eventually this illegal laundering of taxpayers' money had to stop.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 10th, 2019 at 2:54pm

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.

Ford and Holden ONLY persisted because the Labor "Govt" was laundering taxpayers' money through Ford and Holden to pay for the greedy unions excessive demands.

But eventually this illegal laundering of taxpayers' money had to stop.



Total oversimplification. Yes the unions were a part, but also the diversity of cars in the market, outside costs etc.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 10th, 2019 at 3:53pm
Extraordinary BH on topic!!!

But an oversimplification.

Ford and Holden knew they could not go on forever with Labor Govt illegal handouts and so they did not invest in any new models.

So what they did was just tinker with the existing models until the end came.

And so Ford and Holden were able to exit the Australian market and get away from the vicious union brutality without any huge losses in new manufacturing equipment.

Toyota quickly realized Australia was a dead end with only a small local market and ever present vicious union parasites everywhere.

And of course Ford and Holden with their excessive union costs could not compete with the much cheaper imported models.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 10th, 2019 at 4:52pm
The traitors that didn't buy Ford or Holden (they were world class cars) are now paying through the nose for repairs, servicing and updating, a BMW is worth nothing second hand these days.

Hockey should have propped up the industry as the yanks have done, he is a big fat cigar smoking poof.

The Jabiru airplane engine is made here and is a winner.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by John Smith on May 10th, 2019 at 5:44pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:54pm:

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.

Ford and Holden ONLY persisted because the Labor "Govt" was laundering taxpayers' money through Ford and Holden to pay for the greedy unions excessive demands.

But eventually this illegal laundering of taxpayers' money had to stop.



Total oversimplification. Yes the unions were a part, but also the diversity of cars in the market, outside costs etc.


the automobile industry is even more heavily unionised in Germany than here, why do they still have a car industry?

Blaming unions is lazy.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Secret Wars on May 10th, 2019 at 5:57pm
It wasn’t complicated but partisan cretins from both sides think the answer lies totally with one side.  Idiots of the left blame Joe but forget about Mitsubishi, idiots of the right blame unions. 

The simple answer was at the end of long supply chain and unattached to large close by markets the car industry was becoming unsustainable in the face of imports that better matched what the public was wanting to buy and the costs of investment meant retooling was impossible. Who would pay?

We did not have economies of scale in suppliers nor vast local markets. It was as if three car manufacturers were making artisan cars for a single New York sized city, population wise but spread over a continent.

If anything it is amazing they lasted as long as they could, car making here was expensive and not efficient financially if you expect a return on investment. 

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by DonDeeHippy on May 11th, 2019 at 6:30am
so they are made for drag cars I take it, I hope they do well, lots of rev heads out there.... Baron needs one for his Torana... ;)

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Ajax on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?


Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sir lastnail on May 12th, 2019 at 12:50pm

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 1:34pm:
The brutal unions made sure Holden had to leave Australia.

Wonder how they get the V12 to meet the emission reqs ?

The fuel thirst would be frightening!!! A V8 is bad enough.

Does it have twin turbos ?


Bullshit. It was Abort who stopped giving them corporate welfare ! Stop making up lies socko.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sir lastnail on May 12th, 2019 at 12:53pm

minarchist wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 10:44am:
Thought I'd give everyone a break from Tesla related threads. Pity Holden weren't making these before they stopped manufacturing permanently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ZkRuuU30E

http://racecast.com.au/


Oh great ! Aussies going back to the past with yet another reinvention of the wheel ! :D LOL 

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sir lastnail on May 12th, 2019 at 12:56pm

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.

Ford and Holden ONLY persisted because the Labor "Govt" was laundering taxpayers' money through Ford and Holden to pay for the greedy unions excessive demands.

But eventually this illegal laundering of taxpayers' money had to stop.


So how come germany can sustain a highly unionized car manufacturing industry and export luxury cars to Australia and the rest of the world ? Perhaps the key is that Germans own those brands and can export them to anywhere they like but we own nothing and take our orders from detroit and tokyo which was always going to end up a disaster !

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sir lastnail on May 12th, 2019 at 1:07pm

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



I hope they are not getting a single cent of government handouts. Let them paddle their own canoes now. They had their go :(

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 12th, 2019 at 4:05pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Not at all.
Which HSV didn't you like?
The Yanks were snapping them up for cop cars.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sir lastnail on May 12th, 2019 at 5:05pm

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:05pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Not at all.
Which HSV didn't you like?
The Yanks were snapping them up for cop cars.


So what happened ? Couldn't sell enough of them to be profitable ?

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 12th, 2019 at 5:37pm

Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:05pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:05pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Not at all.
Which HSV didn't you like?
The Yanks were snapping them up for cop cars.


So what happened ? Couldn't sell enough of them to be profitable ?

The traitors were caught up in having BMWs kias and alike which are on the scrap heap in 5yrs and now we have no automotive industry and no good cars to buy unless you buy top end, even those are worthless second hand.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 13th, 2019 at 9:37am

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:37pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:05pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:05pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Not at all.
Which HSV didn't you like?
The Yanks were snapping them up for cop cars.


So what happened ? Couldn't sell enough of them to be profitable ?

The traitors were caught up in having BMWs kias and alike which are on the scrap heap in 5yrs and now we have no automotive industry and no good cars to buy unless you buy top end, even those are worthless second hand.




There are plenty of good cars, just becaus ethey lack V8s and RWD

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 13th, 2019 at 9:42am
If the yanks were snapping HSVs up for cop cars GMH would not have needed to close down.

The fake claim detector is buzzing.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 13th, 2019 at 10:10am

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:42am:
If the yanks were snapping HSVs up for cop cars GMH would not have needed to close down.

The fake claim detector is buzzing.



They did do it, but it wasn't a lot of HSVs

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 13th, 2019 at 11:24am
The bulldust is flowing freely from the Lefties who have not got a clue but just want to make a noise.

You would need a very long hood to fit this monster in the engine bay.

This would be more for drag racing or possibly racing.

Not much use for ordinary cars with so many traffic laws and max 110Kmh speed limit which almost any old car can do now.

Can you just imagine the fuel consumption!!!   2 miles a gallon!!!

At least this would not conk out after 3 laps like the Tesla toy car does when the battery overheats.

But a Tesla would probably beat it over the 1/4 mile drag strip.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 13th, 2019 at 11:26am

juliar wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 11:24am:
The bulldust is flowing freely from the Lefties who have not got a clue but just want to make a noise.



Juliar is distracting once again.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 13th, 2019 at 11:34am
BH has got a thing about distracting after being caught out a few times.

BH it is much more exciting to discuss the TOPIC as I have if you care to reread.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 13th, 2019 at 11:35am
No, I did, you kept banging on about Teslas.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 13th, 2019 at 11:40am
BH I feel a circle forming.

Concentrate on the topic.

It is a valid comparison to compare this hi power V12 with the Teslas which do have very fast acceleration for a short distance until the battery overheats.

Actually what capacity is this motor ? It is a HUGE 580 cubic inch (9.5L).

Maybe it is for large trucks or boats. But I think it is petrol so too expensive to run compared to diesel.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 13th, 2019 at 11:42am
The only thing Australian in the HSVs was the GMH logo and the BS. Most of the rest were foreign components.

https://autoweek.com/article/supercars/holden-rolls-out-australias-most-powerful-car-closing-its-doors


Quote:
... Holden Special Vehicles' GTSR W1 will combine the now-familiar (to us as the Chevrolet SS or PPV, from highway medians in the U.S.) Holden Commodore with an LS9 V8 borrowed from the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. In HSV's tune, it'll pump out an eye-watering 636 hp and 601 lb-ft of torque courtesy of an air-to-liquid intercooler, a gen-6 supercharger, stainless-steel headers and a few other tweaks. Putting all that power to the ground will be a Tremec TR-6060 six-speed manual gearbox, and we imagine the sedan will actually get some traction in most instances.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 13th, 2019 at 11:48am

juliar wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 11:40am:
BH I feel a circle forming.

Concentrate on the topic.

It is a valid comparison to compare this hi power V12 with the Teslas which do have very fast acceleration for a short distance until the battery overheats.

Actually what capacity is this motor ? It is a HUGE 580 cubic inch (9.5L).

Maybe it is for large trucks or boats. But I think it is petrol so too expensive to run compared to diesel.




Bit OCD don't you think.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 13th, 2019 at 12:01pm
Have no idea what OCD is.

The Formula 1 cars I think use V12 engines but with much smaller capacity and they are revvin' to heaven at up to 17000 RPM.

Bet the union parasites are sniffing around.

Another possible use is those MONSTER TRUCKS. Or possibly racing boats.

Being petrol is a severe limitation in the big heavy equipment market as these are almost universally diesel.

Another use could be for LNG buses and trucks.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 13th, 2019 at 12:30pm

juliar wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 12:01pm:
Have no idea what OCD is.

The Formula 1 cars I think use V12 engines but with much smaller capacity and they are revvin' to heaven at up to 17000 RPM.

Bet the union parasites are sniffing around.

Another possible use is those MONSTER TRUCKS. Or possibly racing boats.

Being petrol is a severe limitation in the big heavy equipment market as these are almost universally diesel.

Another use could be for LNG buses and trucks.



Google is your friend. And no F1 car has used a V12 engine for over 25 years.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 13th, 2019 at 4:30pm
BH I believe you as I just had a vague recollection of v12s in Formula 1.

There is talk of ditching the V6 engines and going to 1000HP V12s because the fans miss the old man sized V12 roar.
Time will tell what happens.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 13th, 2019 at 4:47pm
There could be a market for these engines in monster trucks, I am looking for a new engine for my Land Cruiser.
GettyImages-456625922-e1544804578763-1200x675.jpg (87 KB | 22 )

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 13th, 2019 at 5:13pm
One of these petrol guzzling 600HP monsters would twist the tail shafts off.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Stig on May 16th, 2019 at 12:31pm

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:37pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:05pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:05pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Not at all.
Which HSV didn't you like?
The Yanks were snapping them up for cop cars.


So what happened ? Couldn't sell enough of them to be profitable ?

The traitors were caught up in having BMWs kias and alike which are on the scrap heap in 5yrs and now we have no automotive industry and no good cars to buy unless you buy top end, even those are worthless second hand.


Never had any problem getting good trade ins for BMWs I've owned. Never had one break down either - let alone be "on the scrap heap".

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 16th, 2019 at 12:36pm

juliar wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 4:30pm:
BH I believe you as I just had a vague recollection of v12s in Formula 1.

There is talk of ditching the V6 engines and going to 1000HP V12s because the fans miss the old man sized V12 roar.
Time will tell what happens.



It won't happen. The engines arent the big issue in F1 at the moment.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Stig on May 16th, 2019 at 12:37pm

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.


Ford and GMs simply had no idea what to do with their AU operations, because their senior management doesn't have a clue about anything but US monster trucks.

Every single foreign company Ford or GM has touched they have completely stuffed and had to sell off. Ford even managed to stuff up Mazda - I mean, if they couldn't make a Japanese car maker work, they have no hope.

Toyota was collateral damage - they could have kept making cars here, but the GM/Ford pullout left them with costs that were too high to sustain from local parts suppliers, so they pulled out.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 16th, 2019 at 12:40pm

Stig wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:37pm:

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.


Ford and GMs simply had no idea what to do with their AU operations, because their senior management doesn't have a clue about anything but US monster trucks.

Every single foreign company Ford or GM has touched they have completely stuffed and had to sell off. Ford even managed to stuff up Mazda - I mean, if they couldn't make a Japanese car maker work, they have no hope.

Toyota was collateral damage - they could have kept making cars here, but the GM/Ford pullout left them with costs that were too high to sustain from local parts suppliers, so they pulled out.




So many reasons all contributing to the demise.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 16th, 2019 at 1:18pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:40pm:

Stig wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:37pm:

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.


Ford and GMs simply had no idea what to do with their AU operations, because their senior management doesn't have a clue about anything but US monster trucks.

Every single foreign company Ford or GM has touched they have completely stuffed and had to sell off. Ford even managed to stuff up Mazda - I mean, if they couldn't make a Japanese car maker work, they have no hope.

Toyota was collateral damage - they could have kept making cars here, but the GM/Ford pullout left them with costs that were too high to sustain from local parts suppliers, so they pulled out.


So many reasons all contributing to the demise.


Addiction to OPM was the main cause. When OPM financial life support was pulled the automobile scam scheme collapsed.

Australian manufacturers had a huge benefit in that ships bringing goods to Australia were returning to their country of origin empty, which meant that shipping costs for Australian manufacturers were very low compared to what foreign exporters were paying for shipping to Australia.

There was nothing exceptional about Australian made engines or cars.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 16th, 2019 at 1:20pm
Another Greeny leaning hexspurt solves everything with a wave of the Greeny arms.

All the hexspurts miss the really big factors stopping manufacturing of cars here.

They compare Australia to overseas countries and make nonsense comparisons.

Our small population means there is only a small market here which cannot support the necessary economies of scale of production and so export is necessary to achieve the benefits of volume of production.

Cost of production here is sent through the stratosphere by the pressure of the blood sucking union parasites which makes the products made here TOO EXPENSIVE compared to the cheaper imported cars and also too expensive to export as they cannot compete with cars made in those overseas countries.

The crunch really came when the TARIFF BARRIERS were removed by Senator Button as this allowed Australians to buy CHEAPER imported cars for the first time. Suddenly Australia was swamped by European Fords and Holdens like BMW and Mercedes.

Now the increasing of the cost of power caused by the introduction of dodgy renewables is a further pressure to push manufacturing out of Australia.

There is always the Greeny type arm waving argument floated that Ford and Holden weren't making cars that people wanted.

Now the Labor Govt was laundering taxpayer money through Ford and Holden to pay for the ridiculous blood sucking union parasites demands.

Of course Ford and Holden realized this and simply went onto standby mode and not introducing any new models because they knew the end was coming and so they just tinkered with the existing models until the final curtain came down.

This allowed Ford and Holden to exit Australia and avoid the huge cost of new manufacturing equipment.

Now you all know.


Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 16th, 2019 at 1:47pm
The subsidy to car manufacturers per worker were crazy. GMH got $50,000 per worker and Toyota got $ 29,000 per worker.

It was not sustainable. Of course, the unions would seduce the goose to lay bigger golden eggs. It's human nature.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/our-subsidies-holdens-high-wages/news-story/732bf7b04f935b7988b6d30077064cd2


Quote:
... TAXPAYERS are covering about $2500 of the cost of each Australian-made car with subsidies equivalent to as much as $50,000 for every employee directly involved in their manufacture. Subsidies to the industry have averaged about $550 million a year for the past six years, not including the benefit of tariffs and the luxury car tax, according to the Productivity Commission.

So what exactly are taxpayers subsidising?
Holden and Toyota both say their manufacturing costs are about $3750 per car higher in Australia than in other markets... Manufacturing costs added $2000, mainly as a result of labour costs, which it said were double the cost per vehicle compared with European manufacturers, and four times the cost of Asia. Holden, which has about 2000 staff directly involved in manufacturing at its Elizabeth plant in South Australia and its engine plant in Port Melbourne, received $96m in subsidies last year, or just under $50,000 per employee.Toyota, with 2500 manufacturing employees, received $72m in government grants, or $29,000 per employee.  ...

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Bojack Horseman on May 16th, 2019 at 2:19pm

juliar wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 1:20pm:
There is always the Greeny type arm waving argument floated that Ford and Holden weren't making cars that people wanted.



They weren't though the market changed from big cars to SUVs. They both tried to respond, but whilst the Territory was a agreat car, the Adventra was not. That suited big families, but also couples were starting to buy small SUVs. Couple that with the increase in utes.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Stig on May 16th, 2019 at 8:10pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 2:19pm:

juliar wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 1:20pm:
There is always the Greeny type arm waving argument floated that Ford and Holden weren't making cars that people wanted.



They weren't though the market changed from big cars to SUVs. They both tried to respond, but whilst the Territory was a agreat car, the Adventra was not. That suited big families, but also couples were starting to buy small SUVs. Couple that with the increase in utes.


And who can forget when Ford, in the middle of steeply rising fuel prices, blew a significant chunk of the development budget for the Territory on a turbo Barra version rather than the diesel that everyone was crying out for (and which they eventually got, years too late)

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm

Stig wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:31pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:37pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 5:05pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:05pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

Ajax wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 8:18am:
Both the Ford & Holden design centres are still operating here in Australia.

Says something about both those teams....... 8-)

Both produced their finest cars (world class) in the last models imo and then they shut shop and ran..... :-?



Australia was not a leader in automotive technology or automotive manufacturing. Australia was a follower in both aspects.

Followers don't succeed unless they can do it for a lower price.

BS.


Bloody Sensational? Please don't thank me.

Not at all.
Which HSV didn't you like?
The Yanks were snapping them up for cop cars.


So what happened ? Couldn't sell enough of them to be profitable ?

The traitors were caught up in having BMWs kias and alike which are on the scrap heap in 5yrs and now we have no automotive industry and no good cars to buy unless you buy top end, even those are worthless second hand.


Never had any problem getting good trade ins for BMWs I've owned. Never had one break down either - let alone be "on the scrap heap".

Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Stig on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 20th, 2019 at 8:12pm
So what are these V12 engines used for ?

The description mentions petrol so that would dramatically reduce its applications as the thirst would be frightening.

If the V12 block can be used for diesel then that would greatly expand its applications into things like diesel generators, large machinery, large trucks, etc.

But diesel engine blocks are quite different from petrol engine blocks.

The walls of a diesel engine block are normally far thicker than a block designed for a petrol engine, and they have more bracing webs to provide extra strength and to absorb stresses. ... Pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts and bearing caps have to be made stronger than their petrol engine counterparts.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by DonDeeHippy on May 21st, 2019 at 7:10am

juliar wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 8:12pm:
So what are these V12 engines used for ?

The description mentions petrol so that would dramatically reduce its applications as the thirst would be frightening.

If the V12 block can be used for diesel then that would greatly expand its applications into things light diesel generators, large machinery, large trucks, etc.

But diesel engine blocks are quite different from petrol engine blocks.

The walls of a diesel engine block are normally far thicker than a block designed for a petrol engine, and they have more bracing webs to provide extra strength and to absorb stresses. ... Pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts and bearing caps have to be made stronger than their petrol engine counterparts.

looks like they are targeting drag and street cars. ;)

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 21st, 2019 at 1:31pm
Go away lame brain Tweedledee you are like pollution.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by DonDeeHippy on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 21st, 2019 at 4:43pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

But most people don't thrash Commodores or Falcons, they are good for just puttering around in, the performance BMWs on the other hand!

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by DonDeeHippy on May 21st, 2019 at 5:06pm

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

But most people don't thrash Commodores or Falcons, they are good for just puttering around in, the performance BMWs on the other hand!

so no performance HSV or XR's get thrashed only performance BMW's do ? :D :D

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on May 21st, 2019 at 5:20pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:06pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

But most people don't thrash Commodores or Falcons, they are good for just puttering around in, the performance BMWs on the other hand!

so no performance HSV or XR's get thrashed only performance BMW's do ? :D :D

No, I am saying the BMW family saloon will get thrashed, not just the performance ones, they are all very sporty.


Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by DonDeeHippy on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:18am

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:20pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:06pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

But most people don't thrash Commodores or Falcons, they are good for just puttering around in, the performance BMWs on the other hand!

so no performance HSV or XR's get thrashed only performance BMW's do ? :D :D

No, I am saying the BMW family saloon will get thrashed, not just the performance ones, they are all very sporty.

It's not the performance of the car that gets it thrashed, it's who owns it... Ive know guys with very hot cars that look after them like a baby and then others with the cheapest nastiest car that think they are race cars...… To automatically think someone is going to pay around 100k for a vehicle and thrash it is a bit misguided.
The older a commodore or a falcon get the faster they go, because as they get cheaper, they get younger drivers who flog the rings out of them.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Stig on May 22nd, 2019 at 8:35am

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:18am:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:20pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:06pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

But most people don't thrash Commodores or Falcons, they are good for just puttering around in, the performance BMWs on the other hand!

so no performance HSV or XR's get thrashed only performance BMW's do ? :D :D

No, I am saying the BMW family saloon will get thrashed, not just the performance ones, they are all very sporty.

It's not the performance of the car that gets it thrashed, it's who owns it... Ive know guys with very hot cars that look after them like a baby and then others with the cheapest nastiest car that think they are race cars...… To automatically think someone is going to pay around 100k for a vehicle and thrash it is a bit misguided.
The older a commodore or a falcon get the faster they go, because as they get cheaper, they get younger drivers who flog the rings out of them.



Absolutely. You just need to pick the right car, get a proper assessment of it before you buy, then get it serviced regularly.

One of mine is a twin-turbo 6 that will see off plenty of V8s, but was owned by a lawyer who drove it 5 klm each day from his house to his city office and back. Didn't really need the performance but wanted a top of the range version with plenty of power and all options.

Hasn't given any problems to this day, still goes like a rocket.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on May 22nd, 2019 at 8:46am
How many times have you been booked for speeding ?

A super fast car is of no use now with the extreme policing of just about every road and street.

The max speed is 110km/h which just about any car can do now.

20km over and you are walking. 40km over and you are crying.

Extra power is needed if you tow a boat or caravan or trailer.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Tap on May 28th, 2019 at 4:40pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:54pm:

juliar wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Total rubbish from a Lefty of course.

The excessive union demands simply made Ford and Holden and Toyota unprofitable here in Australia.

Australia's small population meant Ford and Holden and Toyota had to export and there they never stood a chance competing with overseas firms.

Ford and Holden ONLY persisted because the Labor "Govt" was laundering taxpayers' money through Ford and Holden to pay for the greedy unions excessive demands.

But eventually this illegal laundering of taxpayers' money had to stop.



Total oversimplification. Yes the unions were a part, but also the diversity of cars in the market, outside costs etc.


The Unions were a big, big part of the problem. Labour costs are and were the biggest expense for all companies that eventually had to move off-shore. Our Labour Unions and greed made manufacturing here too expensive and our labour force priced itself out of the market. The jobs went off-shore. Ford and Holden manufacturing, owned by the 2 US auto companies Ford and General Motors, went to Asia, South America, and Mexico where labour is far cheaper, and some manufacturing even went back to the States where the cost of labour there is now less than it is here.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sprintcyclist on Jun 13th, 2019 at 9:41am

juliar wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 8:46am:
How many times have you been booked for speeding ?

A super fast car is of no use now with the extreme policing of just about every road and street.

The max speed is 110km/h which just about any car can do now.

20km over and you are walking. 40km over and you are crying.

Extra power is needed if you tow a boat or caravan or trailer.


Which is low revs torque, not high revs horsepower.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Sprintcyclist on Jun 28th, 2019 at 10:10pm
I gotta say ..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ssA_O4GGhA


......... it sounds really awful

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Baronvonrort on Jun 30th, 2019 at 9:53am

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 6:30am:
so they are made for drag cars I take it, I hope they do well, lots of rev heads out there.... Baron needs one for his Torana... ;)


My SS Torana is worth more with original matching numbers engine which doesn't really mean a lot as I have no plans to sell it despite a recent offer of $100K

A standard 300KW Ls1  picked  from a wrecked Commodore can be put in with no worries just need to change sump and engine mounts. 300 KW is 400 Hp which is the same as Brock had at Bathurst in 1979. A few have installed these into Toranas they do high 11 second quarter mile while getting 7-8 L per 100Km on the highway. The Ls1 in a Torana gets 20% better highway economy than a Starfire 4Cyl Torana.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on Jul 1st, 2019 at 9:08am
Baron,

how does your Torana go against one of the new Mercedes AMG hot cars ? I think they have 1 or 2 turbos on a V8 or V12.

Do you have a turbo on your Torana ?

Bet you are glad you don't have to meet California emission standards.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Baronvonrort on Jul 1st, 2019 at 4:26pm

juliar wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 9:08am:
Baron,

how does your Torana go against one of the new Mercedes AMG hot cars ? I think they have 1 or 2 turbos on a V8 or V12.

Do you have a turbo on your Torana ?

Bet you are glad you don't have to meet California emission standards.


I try not to break road rules I value my license so I don't bother trying to race people on the street.

No Turbos I have put fuel injection from a VN Group A commodore on it, I have ADR27A on compliance plate so this was the easiest way to meet emissions with modified engine. The VN Group A did 6 seconds to 100KPH I have a bigger camshaft more compression the Torana is also much lighter just under 1200 Kg.

I raced Karts about 20 years ago so once or twice a year I take the Torana to Eastern Creek or Wakefield park so I can open it up without fear of being fined. I wallop a lot of late model cars most are more impressed by the handling and brakes. I do have Bilstein shocks ($600 for 4) and stiffer springs. It's a well balanced car easy to drive on the limit.

Karts are more fun for track work and racing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6rXSjpdLz0

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on Jul 1st, 2019 at 6:49pm
What about exhaust noise as the few Toranas I have seen on the street are pretty noisy and would immediately attract cops' attention these days.

I seem to recall the V8 Toranas were able to beat the V8 GTHO Falcons at Bathurst because they were lighter and had better power to weight ratio and better handling on the curves.

The Audi and Mercedes and Japanese cars with turbos are very quick these days. The old fashioned BMW's just seem to slog along. Wonder why they don't update that old fashioned double grill thing ?

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by Secret Wars on Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:02pm

juliar wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 6:49pm:
What about exhaust noise as the few Toranas I have seen on the street are pretty noisy and would immediately attract cops' attention these days.

I seem to recall the V8 Toranas were able to beat the V8 GTHO Falcons at Bathurst because they were lighter and had better power to weight ratio and better handling on the curves.

The Audi and Mercedes and Japanese cars with turbos are very quick these days. The old fashioned BMW's just seem to slog along. Wonder why they don't update that old fashioned double grill thing ?


Update the BMW kidney grill! Actually they have if you look at some of the future car studies but it is still recognisable.  Car manufacturers spend heaps on a design language, Audi with its grill, Lexus with the new spindle, Jeep with its 7 slats, Mazda Kodo language, jag and it’s proportion language, thought recently updated by Callum in the new Electronic jag.

You can look at time fade of mustang and Camaro from ends to see the elements moving around. 

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by xeej on Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:44pm

Stig wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 8:35am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:18am:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:20pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 5:06pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:43pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:38pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 4:18pm:

Stig wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 7:48am:

Johnnie wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
Expect to lose 49% of your outlay on a BMW in 3yrs and if you need repairs be prepared to cough up an arm and a leg, who would buy one after 6 or 7yrs, the holdens and fords will go 20yrs with 2 oil changes.


Expect to lose big on any expensive car. Which is why I buy 2-3 years old, not new.

As for repairs and reliability - I've owned BMWs that were over 7 years old with no particular issues - I have one now. Repairs are more expensive than Holdens or Fords, but it's a performance car so it doesn't bother me. As for reliability overall - BMW beats Holden and Ford in every survey I've ever seen, and my experience backs that up.

When you buy a second hand performance BMW you can almost bet its been thrashed, its irresistible. Any car approaching 200.000 kilometers will be close to repairs and BMW repairs increase a lot over time.

In what way does a BMW beat a Commodore or Falcon in so far as reliability goes?

If you have a BMW , Holden or a ford that's been thrashed for 7 years I wouldn't imagine it would be cheep trying to keep any of them on the road..... :D

But most people don't thrash Commodores or Falcons, they are good for just puttering around in, the performance BMWs on the other hand!

so no performance HSV or XR's get thrashed only performance BMW's do ? :D :D

No, I am saying the BMW family saloon will get thrashed, not just the performance ones, they are all very sporty.

It's not the performance of the car that gets it thrashed, it's who owns it... Ive know guys with very hot cars that look after them like a baby and then others with the cheapest nastiest car that think they are race cars...… To automatically think someone is going to pay around 100k for a vehicle and thrash it is a bit misguided.
The older a commodore or a falcon get the faster they go, because as they get cheaper, they get younger drivers who flog the rings out of them.



Absolutely. You just need to pick the right car, get a proper assessment of it before you buy, then get it serviced regularly.

One of mine is a twin-turbo 6 that will see off plenty of V8s, but was owned by a lawyer who drove it 5 klm each day from his house to his city office and back. Didn't really need the performance but wanted a top of the range version with plenty of power and all options.

Hasn't given any problems to this day, still goes like a rocket.

If I were to put a twin turbo on my V8 you wouldn't see me for dust.

Driving any car let alone a sporty BMW for five minutes twice a day in the city without even warming up is a good way to kill it, you might want to shop around for a good ford or holden.

Title: Re: V12 LS Engine - Made in Australia
Post by juliar on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:20pm
The BMW double grill thing is so daggy and out of date. It is ridiculous to see this same daggy grill stuck on their every model. BMW seem to be in a time warp.

Range Rover 4WD's are awkward old age looking things too.

Mercedes used to cling to an old fashioned look but they have totally abandoned that now.

I have heard that BMW and Mercedes are like Ford and Holden in Europe.

Apparently the Bentley has a twin turbo V8 or V12 I seem to recall.

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