Remember Sol Trujillo, the Three Amigos, the "complete software upgrade" across Telstra? Trujillo is a career CIA asset specializing in compromising national comms networks. All Oz military comms independent of Telstra depend on USA-controlled assets.

In the event that a REAL threat to Oz arose, the Americans would switch off the Oz military's comms, tell them to sit down and shut up, and take care of the threat themselves. They regard Oz as their backyard, the military here as a joke, and won't tolerate any threat that they perceive as being against their own interests.

The subs, like all other Oz military gear, are just tokens to give the plebs the illusion of a Defence Force - i.e. it's a Defence Farce. This is why neither the govt nor the military take Oz Defence seriously, as neither does any other country; only the Great Oz Unwashed.

More at the website SubmarinesForAustralia dotcomdotau

Evidence, please.   ::)

Here it is here:

http://www.submarinesforaustralia.com.au/

It's damning.

z wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

Remember Sol Trujillo, the Three Amigos, the "complete software upgrade" across Telstra? Trujillo is a career CIA asset specializing in compromising national comms networks. All Oz military comms independent of Telstra depend on USA-controlled assets. In the event that a REAL threat to Oz arose, the Americans would switch off the Oz military's comms, tell them to sit down and shut up, and take care of the threat themselves. They regard Oz as their backyard, the military here as a joke, and won't tolerate any threat that they perceive as being against their own interests. The subs, like all other Oz military gear, are just tokens to give the plebs the illusion of a Defence Force - i.e. it's a Defence Farce. This is why neither the govt nor the military take Oz Defence seriously, as neither does any other country; only the Great Oz Unwashed. More at the website SubmarinesForAustralia dotcomdotau

Worse,  they get the stupid aussies to spend up big and buy the US made equipment and when they need to use it they invite australia into one of their trumped up wars in the middle east and the sycophants here gladly oblige and let the yanks use the equipment we paid for :D LOL

A nuclear boat requires fundamentally different design compromises at the outset. Reactors are inherently noisy - the boiling water - so a great deal of effort must go into silencing it and the turbine. Radiation shielding is needed, but there's no fuel storage, and plenty of power for maintaining a breathable atmosphere etc. Diesel/electric boats are inherently quiet on electrics, but need both fuel tanks and batteries, and have no power to spare for crew luxuries.

Yet not only are we paying the French (our ??allies?? since ??) to build them, they have to REdesign a nuclear boat for D/E, something that NO COUNTRY HAS EVER DONE. And the nuclear boats hve not yet been built.

IS THIS SHEER INSANITY?

z wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 10:27pm:

A nuclear boat requires fundamentally different design compromises at the outset. Reactors are inherently noisy - the boiling water - so a great deal of effort must go into silencing it and the turbine. Radiation shielding is needed, but there's no fuel storage, and plenty of power for maintaining a breathable atmosphere etc. Diesel/electric boats are inherently quiet on electrics, but need both fuel tanks and batteries, and have no power to spare for crew luxuries. Yet not only are we paying the French (our ??allies?? since ??) to build them, they have to REdesign a nuclear boat for D/E, something that NO COUNTRY HAS EVER DONE. And the nuclear boats hve not yet been built. IS THIS SHEER INSANITY?

Read the .pdf file although it's very long:

http://www.submarinesforaustralia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Insight-Economics-Submarine-Report.pdf

Bobby. wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 9:54pm:

Here it is here: http://www.submarinesforaustralia.com.au/ It's damning.

No mention of Sol Trujillo's supposed claimed CIA links.  No mention of US espionage in Australia.  Sorry, doesn't pass the Pub test, Bobby.  Try again.

Oh, and Mr. Johnston has missed the boat badly on the submarine decision, if you'll excuse the pun.   ::) ::)

z wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 10:27pm:

A nuclear boat requires fundamentally different design compromises at the outset. Reactors are inherently noisy - the boiling water - so a great deal of effort must go into silencing it and the turbine. Radiation shielding is needed, but there's no fuel storage, and plenty of power for maintaining a breathable atmosphere etc. Diesel/electric boats are inherently quiet on electrics, but need both fuel tanks and batteries, and have no power to spare for crew luxuries. Yet not only are we paying the French (our ??allies?? since ??) to build them, they have to REdesign a nuclear boat for D/E, something that NO COUNTRY HAS EVER DONE. And the nuclear boats hve not yet been built. IS THIS SHEER INSANITY?

You know, they said the same things about the COLLINS class.  They were wrong there as well...   ::)

dear Fartacus,
you have taught Brian a substantial amount from this thread & me too.

You get top marks.

cheers
Bobby

> No mention of Sol Trujillo's supposed claimed CIA links.

So you don't know how to use an Internet search engine?

> you have taught Brian a substantial amount from this thread & me too.

Thanks indeed. All I usually get is abuse and insults. Most people simply DO NOT WANT to know the truth: it's far too embarrassing.

If you go to the SubmarinesForAustralia website (link in post #3 above thanks to Bobby) and click on SUBMARINE FIASCO? at lower left, you'll get a long list of discussion posts. Scroll about three-quarters the way down to the first of several posts by one Zbygnyu Thiew:

Zbygnyu Thiew says:      
September 21, 2016 at 8:09 am

These offer proof that the French submarines are not an isolated incident, but business as usual for the Ostrayun Defence Farce. It's not merely criminal incompetence, it's chronic, deeply rooted corruption.

A nation gets the leaders it deserves.

Thanks Fartacus - it's here:

http://www.submarinesforaustralia.com.au/2016/08/11/submarine-fiasco/

Link to video from the same site:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbuJrnQinQc

There's worse to come. Manned submarines have a very limited role in modern warfare that, for a country of Australia's size and budget, is negligible. A bit of history sets the stage.

The German U-boats were highly effective weapons at the time for two main reasons: there were no long-range missiles and no satellite surveillance. Their captains were essentially modern pirates with a military commission: "Destroy enemy shipping!" They had very limited communication with High Command once at sea, but didn't need it, and acted autonomously, severely damaging the Atlantic supply convoys which literally kept the UK alive. The situation in the Pacific was quite different owing to the dominant American presence, but both German and Japanese boats were effective stealth weapons, being invisible and almost undetectable until they attacked.

The situation today is very different. Lengthy, large-scale military engagements can no longer occur between major powers because of the tremendous destruction wreaked by modern weapons. If the USA attacked Russia or China, as the neocons are lusting to do, it would all be over in a few days, with smoking, radioactive ruins on both sides. All know this, which is why the action is kept bubbling along at smaller scales in the mutually-agreed theatres of victim countries.

Submarines serve three main functions: as stealth attack vessels, as hidden missile platforms, and as stealth surveillance vessels. The only ones needing to be manned are the missile platforms, primarily for retaliatory strikes. If land-based missile batteries are taken out by a first strike, the subs can still deliver fatal blows.

Destroying naval surface vessels is easily accomplished by long-range cruise missiles launched from ships or aircraft, and are virtually inescapable once launched, being both autonomous, and flying at high speed a few metres above the ocean. There's no need for a submarine to "sneak up" on them, much less a manned one. Submarine surveillance is far more effective using autonomous drone vessels: the burden of long-term life-support on a surveillance vessel not only makes it far larger and more costly than an unmanned vessel, but much more vulnerable. In addition, you'd get a fleet of drones for the cost of a single manned boat.

China will never invade Australia. They can get everything they want by bribing our corrupt politicians, public servants, bankers and Big Business Bosses. And they know as well as everyone else that the Oz military is just a Farce.

Good post Fartacus,
you're showing yourself to be much more of an expert than Brian.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 8:39am:

Good post Fartacus, you're showing yourself to be much more of an expert than Brian.

Thanks for the compliment. Perhaps the most important thing to realize is that no "Defence Expert" could ever state the truths in my last paragraph: that the country's whole leadership is corrupt, and presents by far the greatest threat to the nation's future and security.

They must ALWAYS act as if our "leaders" are honourable, competent, and worthy of trust. To do otherwise would bring their own honesty under suspicion, and they're far too well-paid and secure ever to risk that, since they know it's a lie.

Then there was that time that the Australian Army "ran out of bullets"  :o

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 11:19am:

Then there was that time that the Australian Army "ran out of bullets"  :o

Nope, don't know it. Please enlighten us!

...


With the Australian Defence Force engaged in increasingly lethal operations in Afghanistan, a scathing new report from the auditor-general has cast serious doubt on the ability of Defence to reliably manage and supply the bullets, bombs, warheads and other items in the ADF’s lethal weapons inventory. The little-noticed report last month revealed that at 30 June last year Defence’s total stock holdings of explosive ordnance inventory were valued at $2.9 billion with some 42 per cent categorized as “other than serviceable.” At the same time the value of army ordnance categorised as other than serviceable was 57 per cent of stock valued at $437.7 million.

In other words, nearly half of the ADF’s ordnance stocks and nearly 60 per cent of the army’s stocks cannot be fired in anger. They might as well be chocolate creams. The auditor’s figures suggest a potential crisis in ADF munitions management – especially as the report is the sixth since 1987 to criticise aspects of munitions management.

With characteristic understatement the Australian National Audit Office concluded that the figures for “other than serviceable” munitions suggested that there had been only limited improvement in explosive ordnance management. Arrangements tended to be “fragmented” and there were major skills shortages. The report said that the munitions branch of explosive ordnance division was using an inventory management tool with “known deficiencies” and concluded that the issues required “the effective implementation of long-term remediation strategies.”

Despite the report’s implications for the ability of the ADF to sustain high-intensity combat operations, there has been little political or departmental response to the report to date. Political and departmental inclinations seem to be to sweep the issue aside.

Defence and the Defence Materiel Organisation, or DMO, readily agreed to the auditor’s recommendations that they develop processes for consolidating inventory requirements at an appropriate level and undertake a strategic review of domestic ammunitions manufacturing arrangements to ensure value for money and the viability of ongoing investment in domestic capacities. Unfortunately, as the report details, previous agreements to improve the supply and serviceability of munitions have often not been implemented or implemented only partly. So it seems relevant to examine responsibility for munitions management and to look at the costs of current domestic manufacturing arrangements.

Two years ago the vice chief of the defence force was put in charge of explosive ordnance and the explosive ordnance branch in Logistics Command was established to oversee ordnance and weapons security.

The DMO is responsible for procurement, sustainment and through-life support of explosive ordnance and for ensuring that inventory is held at appropriate levels of serviceability. According to the auditor, DMO’s ordnance sustainment budget is some $400 million annually.

The primary local supplier of munitions is Thales Australia (formerly ADI). Under the so-called SAMS agreement with Defence, Thales Australia is required to maintain the capability to manufacture some thirteen of approximately 830 ordnance items required by the ADF. It does so from a factory near Benalla in Victoria.

According to the Audit Office, Defence spends $20 million a year on SAMS items and is required to pay Thales $63.2 million a year (indexed annually) to retain its manufacturing capability. Under a separate agreement Thales operates a Defence-owned propellant and high explosive production factory at Mulwala in southern New South Wales. Mulwala supplies Bendigo and Defence pays another $29.7 million (indexed annually) to retain agreed production capability at Mulwala.

The auditor notes that the SAMS and Mulwala agreements will expire in 2015, but that DMO will continue to spend significantly on the agreements and on redeveloping the Muwala facility at a cost of $31 million. Urging a strategic review of the arrangements, the auditor notes “uncertainty within Defence surrounding the form of future domestic manufacturing arrangements for explosive ordnance.”

There are good reasons why Defence is prepared to pay a premium for guaranteed local military ammunition production. But continuing high levels of “other than serviceable” military ammunition stocks, and the costs of paying Thales Australia to keep the factories running, are raising questions about whether the current arrangements are delivering value for money. Domestic manufacturing arrangements for explosive ordnance currently represent an area of significant expenditure that needs to be more strategically managed”, the auditor says.

Notwithstanding Bluntschli’s cynical realism no modern defence force can afford an army of chocolate cream soldiers. The ADF’s ammunition problems require urgent attention. •

https://insidestory.org.au/a-battle-with-ammunition/

Many thanks for that: most illuminating!

I bet they don't run out of make-up and condoms.

z wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 12:42am:

> No mention of Sol Trujillo's supposed claimed CIA links. So you don't know how to use an Internet search engine?

Ah, I was expecting you to provide evidence.  You have fhus far failed.  I wonder why?

I have found one reputable link about him being associated with a company that had CIA links.  Hardly a blazing trail.  Tsk, tsk.  ::)


Quote:

> you have taught Brian a substantial amount from this thread & me too. Thanks indeed. All I usually get is abuse and insults. Most people simply DO NOT WANT to know the truth: it's far too embarrassing. If you go to the SubmarinesForAustralia website (link in post #3 above thanks to Bobby) and click on SUBMARINE FIASCO? at lower left, you'll get a long list of discussion posts. Scroll about three-quarters the way down to the first of several posts by one Zbygnyu Thiew: Zbygnyu Thiew says:       September 21, 2016 at 8:09 am These offer proof that the French submarines are not an isolated incident, but business as usual for the Ostrayun Defence Farce. It's not merely criminal incompetence, it's chronic, deeply rooted corruption. A nation gets the leaders it deserves.

Oh, dearie, dearie me.  Tsk, tsk, the ADF is full of men and women who are honourable and have no desire to betray anybody.  It is obvious you have never served.  Tsk, tsk.   ::)

Hi Captain Nemo,
that article is over 8 years old.
I wonder what the situation is now?



A battle with ammunition
Geoffrey Barker
7 April 2010

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 11:47am:

... https://insidestory.org.au/a-battle-with-ammunition/

Oh. dearie, dearie, me.  Yet more ignorance it appears.

OTS - "other than serviceable" can range from something that has a minor fault through to a major one.   In the case of ammunition it can range from ammunition that is down for inspection (which occurs semi-regularly) to a laser bomb which has a malfunctioning laser sensor or a missile which is being serviced.

I remember one Army exercise which resulted in all 7.62mm Blank ammunition in Australia being placed on "hold" because I discovered in a pallet five rounds of Ball - "Live" ammunition to the uninitiated.  That "hold" lasted for 24 hours while someone smart aleck in Canberra worked out that units could carry out their own inspection on issuing, to make sure that Blank was in fact Blank and not Ball.   I discovered the Ball 'cause I was issuing what I believed was Blank and noticed the copper coloured noses of the rounds I was issuing.   I understand it was an error at the factory where the ammunition was packed, not at the Depot where it was issued.  Some civilian had made the error.

The Australia Defence Forces has never run out of ammunition, despite what your alarmist article might claim.   It simply has twice the amount required for three months of issue in it's war stocks.    Of course, you know what "war stocks" are, don't you?  It is approximate twice to three times everything the ADF has on issue, which it would use in case of a conflict that we are engaged in.   I have visited one of the War Stocks Depots (there are several).  It was HUGE and it contained several dozen big warehouses.   Ammunition cycles through those depots regularly.    ::)

Bobby. wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 1:40pm:

Hi Captain Nemo, that article is over 8 years old. I wonder what the situation is now? A battle with ammunition Geoffrey Barker 7 April 2010

Hopefully the situation is much improved!  ;)


Which brings to mind that old joke ...


The army was out of blank rounds to perform some training exercises, so the commander told them to just yell out "BANG" and trust that the person being "shot" would co-operate and leave the field of battle as wounded or dead in the exercise. (Is he kidding? ... Like playing guns as children ... does anyone admit they were "shot"?)

Anyway, the exercise was going OK on the whole, when someone was caught out with a "BANG" they played wounded or dead.

Then, over the hill come four men in close formation ... a fair way off.

A bunch of other soldiers decide to wait in hiding and ambush the four men with a surprise attack ...

The four men in close formation get closer ... up jump the others .. "BANG!" "BANG!" "BANG!" "BANG!"

The four men keep coming!

WTF?

Hey! you guys are dead, we got ya fair and square! Yell the others...

The four men keep coming!

What the hell ?!!!

Then, as they draw even closer, the others hear them!


...



....


"TANK" "TANK" "TANK" "TANK" "TANK" "TANK"


;D

Good joke - I needed something to cheer me up
after still suffering a terrible cold for 5 days.

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 1:54pm:

"TANK" "TANK" "TANK" "TANK" "TANK" "TANK"

I actually attended an Army Reserve exercise once where the CO of the Unit instructed his diggers to yell, "Bang!" when pretending to fire their weapons.

In the evening, the HQ Company mounted an "attack" on one of the Rifle Companies of the battalion.

There were numerous cries from both sides of "Bang!" as the diggers "fired" at one another.

This went on for about half an hour or more.

Slowly the "Bangs!" started to peter out and one voice, a very distinctive voice - the CO's voice could be heard shouting "Bang!" from outside the perimeter.

Then, because everybody was tired and becoming pissed off at shouting out, "Bang!"  One senior Sergeant shouted out loudly when he heard the CO's voice, a very loud, "BANG!".  There was a silence.  The CO's voice came back, "what was that meant to be?"  The Sergeant replied, "An effing MAW (Medium Anti-Tank Weapon - an 84mm L35a1 Charlie Gutsache recoilless rifle), now piss off and let's all go to effing sleep!"

There were a few sniggers and silence from the CO.   The attack ceased.   ;)

Personally, I always preferred when instructed to shout, "Bang!" was to shout, "Bullets, bullets!"  To which the reply was generally, "what was that?"  To which I replied, "an MG, now piss off, your all dead."  ;)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 4:06pm:

Personally, I always preferred when instructed to shout, "Bang!" was to shout, "Bullets, bullets!"  To which the reply was generally, "what was that?"  To which I replied, "an MG, now piss off, your all dead."  ;)

Hmm. I see. And this is how Orstrayun Military Personnel practise defending Australia?

z wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 4:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17th, 2018 at 4:06pm: Personally, I always preferred when instructed to shout, "Bang!" was to shout, "Bullets, bullets!"  To which the reply was generally, "what was that?"  To which I replied, "an MG, now piss off, your all dead."  ;) Hmm. I see. And this is how Orstrayun Military Personnel practise defending Australia?

Only on those exercises where they haven't bothered to indent for ammunition.

Never served, I take it?  No military experience of your own?  Oh, what a shame.  Tsk, tsk.   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 4:24pm:

Never served, I take it?  No military experience of your own?  Oh, what a shame.  Tsk, tsk.   ::)

So how are you so confident of this? Because I don't automatically take the Ozzie buggery-boy line like all dinkum dimwits?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 4:06pm:

"Bullets, bullets!"  To which the reply was generally, "what was that?"  To which I replied, "an MG, now piss off, your all dead."  ;)

Nice one. I like that.  ;D

z wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 4:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17th, 2018 at 4:24pm: Never served, I take it?  No military experience of your own?  Oh, what a shame.  Tsk, tsk.   ::) So how are you so confident of this? Because I don't automatically take the Ozzie buggery-boy line like all dinkum dimwits?

You keep betraying your ignorance.  I suspect you might have served in the Air Force, at best.  However, you've not served in the Army or even in the Navy, hey, Belgarion?    ;)

Belgarion is a fictional character invented by a minor AMERICAN author in one of those obscure, depraved fantasies that are only indulged by the weak-minded.

Brian, my friend. It's nearing six o'clock, the sky is clearing, the rain easing, it promises a clear starry night and a fine day tomorrow. You seem to be somewhat over-wrought and unduly stressed, to be insisting on such precarious literary conundrums.

Why not make a cup of tea, take an aspirin, and have a nice lie down? By the morning it will all have disappeared if, as you fall asleep, you keep repeating to yourself "Fartacus does not exist! Fartacus is just a delusion! Fartacus is only a nightmare!"

Of course, I AM quite real, but there's no need for you to know that. Just go on pretending that I don't actually exist and you'll be fine!

z wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 5:40pm:

Belgarion is a fictional character invented by a minor AMERICAN author in one of those obscure, depraved fantasies that are only indulged by the weak-minded. Brian, my friend. It's nearing six o'clock, the sky is clearing, the rain easing, it promises a clear starry night and a fine day tomorrow. You seem to be somewhat over-wrought and unduly stressed, to be insisting on such precarious literary conundrums. Why not make a cup of tea, take an aspirin, and have a nice lie down? By the morning it will all have disappeared if, as you fall asleep, you keep repeating to yourself "Fartacus does not exist! Fartacus is just a delusion! Fartacus is only a nightmare!" Of course, I AM quite real, but there's no need for you to know that. Just go on pretending that I don't actually exist and you'll be fine!

So, you in or near South Australia, do you?

Interesting.

Now, your lack of knowledge about the ADF is also enlightening.

Just keep making mistakes.   ;)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2018 at 6:06pm:

So, you in or near South Australia, do you? Interesting. Now, your lack of knowledge about the ADF is also enlightening. Just keep making mistakes.   ;)

I've been interacting with Oz Defence Farce personnel throughout a long and difficult life. Yes, I know that you can get the Americans to get my "hidden" personal details, and you think that this will scare me off. Sorry.

Adelaide is the "Defence Hub" of the Oz military for a very good reason: it's always been the paedophile capital of Australia, and you know better than me where and how you guys get your rocks off.

Try again?

dear Fartacus,

http://www.ozpolitic.com/yabbfiles/avatars/UserAvatars/Fartacus.gif


you have shown Brian a thing or two.

Crikey! That's EMBARRASSING.

But FUN!

Let's do it again?

> just keep making mistakes.

For anyone capable of independent rational analysis of the above, just what ARE the "mistakes" referred to in this post?

Perhaps it's the mistake of stating truths that aren't acceptable by ... well it's surely obvious that it's not the halfwits in Canberra ... it can only be those who control Oz and don't want either the pollies or the plebs enlightened.

NO CHANCE of that. ALL Ozns, by definition, have an IQ well below room temperature (and we're talking Centigrade here) so they're just grist for the mill.

But whose mill, and why are they running it?

> the ADF is full of men and women who are honourable and have no desire to betray anybody. It is obvious you have never served.

I'll end this with the obvious questions. Why is Australia not training young people to design, build and operate the new generation of AI and autonomous weaponry? With unemployment rife, highly qualified young people forced to accept casual work in coffee shops and bars, and the whole country completely disillusioned with the complete lack of leadership, why are we paying billions of dollars to the French, of all people, to build equipment that will be out of date before it even hits the water?

True military values are those of leadership, self-reliance, and love of country, not going off to wars half way around the globe on behalf of American corporations and the oil industry. That is NOT service to ones country, but servile obedience to immensely wealthy criminals.

If the ADF expects any respect from the general public, it must demonstrate leadership, self-reliance and love of country, not servile obedience to a foreign power. The simple fact that Brian Ross has seen fit to threaten me for speaking openly about these things is proof that he is not honourable, no matter how much he has "served".

The ADF has betrayed the trust that the Australian people have put in it, and for that it can only expect well-deserved contempt.

z wrote on Oct 19^th, 2018 at 7:01am:

Why is Australia not training young people to design, build and operate the new generation of AI and autonomous weaponry?

Who said they weren't being trained to operate such weapons?

https://i1.wp.com/australianaviation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20060817raaf8207596_011.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/Xg5Tdm.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201409/r1332433_18537701.jpg

Australian universities and defence contractors are also developing such drones.  Do a search, wally.  You might find some knowledge for a change instead of sniffing your own farts all the time.   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

z wrote on Oct 19th, 2018 at 7:01am: Why is Australia not training young people to design, build and operate the new generation of AI and autonomous weaponry? Who said they weren't being trained to operate such weapons? https://i1.wp.com/australianaviation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20060817raaf8207596_011.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/Xg5Tdm.jpg http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201409/r1332433_18537701.jpg Australian universities and defence contractors are also developing such drones.  Do a search, wally.  You might find some knowledge for a change instead of sniffing your own farts all the time.   ::)

bet you'd like to fuel that one up Brian?

> Do a search, wally.  You might find some knowledge for a change

I am aware of these things; but the gap between an F-18 and anything that the public comes in contact with is enormous. A big part of the ADF's problem is perception, another is lack of connection with the man in the street, and another is limited man-power.

But simply ignoring the very real issues raised above arouses distrust; denying them creates contempt, and threatening people prepared to raise and discuss them is the act of a thug.

Yes, I bet Brian would love to fuel one up. So would a lot of young fellows who will never get the chance. That you are in the privileged position of playing with the best toys for boys in the country, and sneer at anyone who criticizes you, does NOT endear you to anyone other than your mates.

Until the ADF is prepared to acknowledge these social responsibilities it will only be viewed as having betrayed the country's interests in order to enjoy its hitech toys, and quite justifiably.

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 19^th, 2018 at 1:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2018 at 1:29pm: z wrote on Oct 19th, 2018 at 7:01am: Why is Australia not training young people to design, build and operate the new generation of AI and autonomous weaponry? Who said they weren't being trained to operate such weapons? https://i1.wp.com/australianaviation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20060817raaf8207596_011.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/Xg5Tdm.jpg http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201409/r1332433_18537701.jpg Australian universities and defence contractors are also developing such drones.  Do a search, wally.  You might find some knowledge for a change instead of sniffing your own farts all the time.   ::) bet you'd like to fuel that one up Brian?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Run along, Hammer, back to your little kiddies' playground.  Tsk, tsk.  ::)

z wrote on Oct 19^th, 2018 at 1:51pm:

> Do a search, wally.  You might find some knowledge for a change I am aware of these things; but the gap between an F-18 and anything that the public comes in contact with is enormous. A big part of the ADF's problem is perception, another is lack of connection with the man in the street, and another is limited man-power.

You claim you know these things but you keep making factually incorrect statements.  Oh dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk.   ::)


Quote:

But simply ignoring the very real issues raised above arouses distrust; denying them creates contempt, and threatening people prepared to raise and discuss them is the act of a thug. Yes, I bet Brian would love to fuel one up. So would a lot of young fellows who will never get the chance. That you are in the privileged position of playing with the best toys for boys in the country, and sneer at anyone who criticizes you, does NOT endear you to anyone other than your mates.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Stop wasting our time, please with the endless insults.  They are pointless...   ::)


Quote:

Until the ADF is prepared to acknowledge these social responsibilities it will only be viewed as having betrayed the country's interests in order to enjoy its hitech toys, and quite justifiably.

The ADF is well aware of what it's responsibilities, social and military are.   ::)

.

LOL

That's a cracker!  ;D

.

The Steyr AUG is standard issue for the Austrian Defence Forces.  It was designed by Steyr for general military use.  The open trigger guard and push button safety catch are an Austrian design.  The open trigger guard and push button safety catch are designed to allow easy use with heavy NBC gloves.  The Steyr is not the only weapon to use either item - the Singaporean SAR-21 and the Israeli Tavor assault rifles both utilise them.  To claim that the ADF is responsible for the design of both the open trigger guard and the push button safety is laughable.

Oh, and only the military use "Sniper rifles" - which sort of qualifies Steyr as a manufacture of military kit, apart from manufacturing the Steyr AUG in all it's various forms.    ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 24^th, 2018 at 3:33pm:

... Oh, and only the military use "Sniper rifles" ...

How about Police snipers?

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/license-to-kill-an-insight-into-the-job-of-australias-police-snipers/news-story/eb088c9fa9f33d4a1ee5ba9704b215fe

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 24^th, 2018 at 4:00pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 3:33pm: ... Oh, and only the military use "Sniper rifles" ... How about Police snipers?

Oh, and Police as well...   ::)

I apologize to any who may have been offended by my provocative sense of humour. My intention was to draw attention to issues that I sincerely believe need free discussion in public forums.

I realize now that my understanding of today's society has been much mistaken. I now understand that Brian Ross undoubtedly does have the means to find my address and exact retribution simply for speaking truth to power. I never expected to be living in fear of the Australian Military, but I find that is now the case. I am seventy years old: the Australia in which I grew up was an entirely different place: the military were held in high regard, as were the police. Today's world is quite alien to me.

The Interet has been the last open venue for free discussion, but is no longer. This has been a very sad day for one who spent his life working in hitech: to find that it is now a tool of oppression and enslavement.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Your bullshit was obvious from the start, troll.  Run along, back under the bridge whence you came from.  Tsk, tsk.   ::)