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General Discussion >> General Board >> Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1533901437 Message started by Unforgiven on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm |
Title: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?
I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic. Saving people from being killed is heroic. Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic. Killing people is not heroic. Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by lee on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:51pm
The art of war is not to die for your country; but to make your enemy die for his.
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:05pm
Sounds like the sort of shallow minded luxury you can afford when your security is handed to you on a platter.
What if you have to kill some people to save others? Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes? What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis? Is it just the bit where they get paid that you object to? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by issuevoter on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gordon on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:09pm
Because
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:13pm Gordon wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:09pm:
Surely if you asked nicely you could achieve a peaceful resolution to this problem. Either that, or blame America. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:02am issuevoter wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Do I have someone in mind? I sure do. Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr., the soldier who stopped Calley and his monsters after they massacred 500 Vietnamese civilians. The soldier who was killing civilians women, children, and old people, William Calley didn't serve a day in jail. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr. Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Bias_2012 on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:31am
The Vietnam war started with the slaughter of innocent South Vietnamese villagers, just across the border, by soldiers from the North, your brave socialist pals
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Raven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:49am
A soldier who kills defending his country is a hero.
A soldier who kills when his country is not under threat is doing his job. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:59am Raven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:49am:
Agree. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Fuzzball on Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:54am freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Without doubt! |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:02am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
No! It's just another day at the office. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:42am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am:
The Nazis would still be in power if soldiers didn't kill. Tyrants don't get overthrown with harsh words. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am:
It seems to me that the heroism of Thompson depended on the unwillingness of the other American soldiers to shoot him. Are you suggesting it is only possible to be heroic against enemies who respect the rule of law and thus give you non-violent options? What if you have to kill some people to save others? Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes? What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by cods on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
I havent heard of anyone being given a medal just for KILLING someone who are you talking about un4?.. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
1. That would require a consideration of the merits of both sides and consideration of the fact that a person isn't killed until they are dead, therefore one cannot presume one person will kill another merely because they are holding a gun. So by the time proper consideration is given the incident may be over. 2. No. Many of them are no better than ISIS which was created out of US mismanagement of Iraq and Saudi radicalization, arming, and funding of Iraqi Sunni extremists. The Saudis have an interest in fomenting chaos in Iraq and Iran and are still doing so. The USA is responsible for the mess in the first place by invading Iraq under false pretexts and then causing Sunnis to be economically and socially ostracized in Iraq. 3. A day at the office. More than 1 million German soldiers died in captivity because of soldiers "office procedures" which included denying shelter, food and medical treatment and in some cases machine gunning them against a wall. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 12:07pm cods wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
Snipers. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 12:16pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
What exactly do you think heroism is? Inability to act without absolute certainty? Why is Thomson a hero without any absolute proof he saved any people, but a soldier who actually has to put his life on the line in a fight to the death is not? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:03pm freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 12:16pm:
Heroism is acting for the greater good of humanity in the face of agents of inhumanity. Thompson saved people at My Lai and caused other similar actions planned by the US military from being implemented. Thompson was vilified by 'hero' soldiers and 'hero' politicians and received death threats. Below is one of the My Lai picture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr. Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm
Here's a question- what would happen to our countries if they were made entirely up of hippies?
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by greggerypeccary on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:12pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
True. So very true. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:17pm Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
Mr. Hammer would lose his virginity to a homosexual hippy. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:12pm:
I suggest you look up vc winners and their actions pecca. Many were given to men who died so their mates wouldn't. Some were given to medics, some to men who saved fellow wounded soldiers. The VC just isn't about killing the enemy. It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary actions. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:21pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:17pm:
And you'd beg and grovel for survival. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm Quote:
Not by your own standard of evidence. Quote:
And fighting Nazis and IS is not doing this? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
So you contend that extraordinary actions of humanity while not facing death don't count as heroism? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:26pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
The only one making absurd generalisations is you. Quote:
Obviously, putting your own life at risk takes a lot more bravery than dobbing people in. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:27pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
in war it isn't. the vc is a military award. do-gooders get their own rewards. You are comparing chalk and cheese. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by greggerypeccary on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:29pm Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
I never mentioned the VC. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:31pm greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:29pm:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:36pm freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
If you have evidence that he saved no lives please present it. Evidently Freediver believes that only killers can be heroes. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm
Hugh Thompson was awarded a medal for what he did actually. Look it up.
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:49pm Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
Lt. William Calley was awarded the Freediver medal. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Mr Hammer on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:53pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:49pm:
wiki- Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy. So it was recognised hey? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:20pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:36pm:
And if you have any evidence he did save lives, please present it. Remember, this is your own words: Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:27pm
Perhaps the Freediver medal can be awarded to William Calley and other criminals and cowards in military uniform.
Freediver is denying that Hugh Thompson saved Vietnamese from massacres. That's a cowardly attack on a real hero. "Everybody's heard of the My Lai massacre — March 16, 1968, 50 years ago today — but not many know about the man who stopped it: Hugh Thompson, an Army helicopter pilot. When he arrived, American soldiers had already killed 504 Vietnamese civilians (that's the Vietnamese count; the U.S. Army said 347). They were going to kill more, but they didn't — because of what Thompson did." http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gordon on Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:42pm
Soldiers from Western countries commit atrocities and it's often not prosecuted; but it's not part of our military strategy.
The Nth Vietnamese and VC however, mass execution orders cane from the top. The executions following the battle of Hue nunbered nearly 5k civilians, women, children, elderly |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:03pm Gordon wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
Americans killed 3 million Asians during the Vietnam war. You don't kill that many people by random acts of individuals. Is Gordon seeking prequalification for the Freediver medal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gordon on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:09pm
What are your thoughts on the deaths in Vietnam during the Japanese occupation? Oh probably none because you only worry when whities are responsible.
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:28pm Gordon wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
Gordon's Freediver medal does not give him the right to obfuscate massacres. What does Freediver medallist Gordon think about the 1+ million WW2 German POWs in allied hands who died due to lack of shelter, lack of food, lack of medical attention, and machine-gunning? Here is your award Gordon. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:34pm freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
Is that a former marine living creature in your arms that was killed for your enjoyment? Are you seeking another Freediver medal? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
Is your argument rally that stupid Unforgiven? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
You can't be a hero simply by killing someone. You can be a hero by saving people from being killed. You can qualify for the Freediver medal by committing atrocities. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 5:57pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
This is your position: Quote:
Are you backpedaling? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:42pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
And they hadn't already dished out that sort of treatment of course? ::) Just to one demographic 6 million dead. You're barking up the wrong tree with your thinly guised racism. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Valkie on Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:59pm
Grubberments kill people on a daily basis
Even in Australia. Not with guns, but with; Bad policy causing suicide. Feeding their mates and multinationals policies to cause death by using toxic materials or simply keeping secrets of their toxicity. Policies aimed at knocking off the aged population through starvation or being unable to heat or cool their homes. Policies destroying hospitals effectiveness, old people homes and allowing medical funds to fleece people until they die. There are many others, but there is no denying that grubberments of the world kill many more than just plain soldiers do. It's the grubberments that need to be put against the wall, not the soldiers. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by salad in on Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:12pm
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Depends on who they kill. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Rhino on Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:33pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:02pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
So if someone were to try and kill your wife would you be a hero to save her or just sit and watch her die? What about your daughter or son or anyone you call family? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:03pm salad in wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:12pm:
It's a complicated story but yes! |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:28pm TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:02pm:
You are not automatically a hero by killing somebody. They might also have had a just cause or been seeking revenge for their own family's deaths. The situation you pose is very hypothetical. It might be more rational to save your family by abstaining from alcohol, especially while driving. That would be heroic because you are sacrificing something. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Unforgiven? You said you stood by this statement, but everything else you say is an attempt to distance yourself from it. Where do you stand? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:34pm:
What sound does a jellyfish make? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
You are devious and insidious in your manner and your debating style. It's no wonder you rejoice in the death of Muslims and Arab civilians in general. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Fuzzball on Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:12am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am:
You know, you pathetic bag of crap, you enjoy the privilege of being able to post your twisted opinions because brave men fought to allow you that privilege, some giving their lives. Now bugger off and crawl back under that rock you crawled out from under, you disgusting little turd. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:05am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am:
;D It's your own thread title Unforgiven. Do you stand by it or not? Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Valkie on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am
If soldiers didn't kill people
The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh. The only way to fight despots is to fight them Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance. And in war, people will be killed. Sometimes innocent people. How many soldiers died in Hiroshema? How many innocent people? In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people They are trained to kill They become killing machines. They throw themselves at almost certain death. These men are all heros For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country. How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men? How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier? They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero. SCUM |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.
If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people. Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity. Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am Quote:
Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
No! |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Ye Grappler on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:16am
People killing soldiers if fine, though.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99k3u9ay1gs |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am:
Is this a fair summary of your argument? Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:25am
Thompson is a hero because he stopped a military atrocity by the USA and caused the cancellation of similar atrocities that were planned by inhuman soldiers.
Freediver understands atrocities because he enjoys torturing and killing marine life as a 'leisure' activity. Humanity begins at home. freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:28am
Here's a very common opinion. Soldiers are arrogant because many people in society call them heroes just because they wear a uniform.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/6pqg3i/being_in_the_military_doesnt_make_you_a_hero/ Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:31pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:25am:
[/quote] I am not talking about why Thomson is a hero. I am talking about why killing people precludes being a hero. The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be a hero, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry. Is this a fair summary of your argument? So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:35pm
Freediver attempts to pervert everything he touches.
Freediver's own lack of humanity is exemplified by his enjoyment of torturing and killing marine life. Reflect on this. freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:31pm:
I am not talking about why Thomson is a hero. I am talking about why killing people precludes being a hero. The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be a hero, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry. Is this a fair summary of your argument? So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.[/quote] |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.
You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Rhino on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:47pm freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
Freediver is perverting the string as he always does. Exposing Freediver's enjoyment of killing and torturing marine life is fair argument because it reflects Freediver's perverted state of mind. In regard to the quote below, soldiers are disposable and are fired from their jobs when they have been so ruthless that there is no-one left to kill. http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
What sound does a jellyfish make? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm rhino wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Of course. FD started it. He knows that. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
Freediver is a bulletin board pervert. He perverts and diverts arguments towards the direction his master's command. Freediver is a paid shill and should precede all his postings with the confession of who pays his slimebag salary. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:59pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
Ask him if he likes telling fibs. He never answers that one. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:02pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
He probably can't determine that because fibbing comes so natural to Freediver. What sort of person derives enjoyment from torturing and butchering marine life? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm
Do prawns feel pain?
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:09pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
Does Freediver fart and urinate in the sea? Do Freedivers feel pain when karma strikes and a shark's jaws close around them? Or, are they exhilarated by the pain and achieve orgasm from their impending death? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:11pm
The truth begins to emerge despite Freediver's efforts to pervert the arguments.
"A soldier is an amoral agent to those nationalistic objectives, however conceived. A career soldier doesn't care about right and wrong, only about national obedience. Otherwise they would be a poor soldier and a good human being." http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm
I would love to see Freediver and his ilk volunteer for military service either in the Australian military or the military of Freediver's paymasters.
So far Freediver's history only includes killing harmless defenseless creatures. It would be interesting to see how Freediver conducts himself against opponents that can attack him with equal force, or defend themselves with equal force. It is disgraceful that many people call anyone in military uniform a hero. It devalues the honor of true heroes. You cannot be a hero just by wearing a military uniform. "And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do." http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm
FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.
Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist. Maybe he could join the army instead. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:01pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
Freediver couldn't do the drive alone. He's already perverted himself and he would need another victim to pervert. I would pay Freediver's membership fees if he was joining the army of one-legged men due to having performed a heroic act to save Arabic babies being bashed to death by psychopathic soldiers and losing a limb. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:10pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
Have you ever heard of sharks? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:11pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
Unforgiven hasn't heard of sharks so watch your step missy! :D |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:19pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
Me too, Forgiven. Let's put FD's membership fees into Ozpolitic donations. FD can report back on how many Muslim and apologist children he's saved. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Valkie on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:36pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
The troll calls me out... On his computer of course, he would be far too cowardly in real life to even look at me. Have you ever spoken out against a man? Not one of your pooftah partners, but a real live man who woukd deck you? Of course not You are a cowardly troll Big on words on a computer, but never in real life. Sad little troll Failure in real life Failure in forums Possibly, probably not even real Just another sock Call me out.......I fart in your general direction, ha ha ha ha ha ha |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:45pm
Valkie, you are a coward because if you believed everything you write you would already be in the military killing people.
You are a disgusting, cowardly, example of inhuman waste. I have flushed things with more morals than Valkie. I wish you did have the guts to join the military and volunteer for conflicts. http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic Quote:
Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:36pm:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:15pm
Valkie has left for the local military recruitment office? Fat chance.
They take psychopaths, but not mentally crippled psychopaths. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
Are you openly running away from your own words now? Why is asking abut your own thread title "perverting the string"? The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be considered a hero by you, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry. Is this a fair summary of your argument? So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:11pm freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
Because it is FreeDiver's usual strategy for perverting discussions by obfuscation and diversion to issues of Freediver's choice. Freediver's lack of humanity and morals is evidenced by his own 'sport' of killing marine creatures for enjoyment. Freediver needs to demonstrate to his paymasters that he is earning his money. Here is a contrary opinion to Freediver from somebody Freediver understands. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:25pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am:
What a load of rubbish. What's your problem ... does he have you there? As far as being devious & insidious ... you take the cake.... no you take the whole bakery. >:( you putz. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:28pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
I call you out as fraud .... as a human being. ::) |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:31pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:35pm:
[/quote] FD has you rattled ... you pathetic racist & apologist. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:32pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm:
The sound you hear when you're typing in this forum. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:34pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
As you do you hypocrite. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:36pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
You're not part of "us". |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:39pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:45pm:
The same wish is applied to you bucket mouth. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by freediver on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:47pm
Do you remember what your thread title was Unforgiven?
The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be considered a hero by you, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry. Is this a fair summary of your argument? So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Valkie on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:28pm:
Fair enough Call me what you like, but at least I'm not a sock. I'm as human as the next guy, I just believe that it's fight or be fodder. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Gnads on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:12pm
You silly bugger that was directed at Un4given.
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Karnal on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:20pm Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
Which one's the sock, Matty? Xeej? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Valkie on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:20pm Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
In that case I unreservidly apologise and beg your forgiveness I've had a long day I put up a fence today 60 metres Lots of holes through clay Damn I'm sore. Again apologies. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:00pm
The three stooges. Gnads, Valkie and Freediver engaged in a three-loser game of mental ping pong.
I denounce you all as cowards because you espouse military atrocities yet are too cowardly to join the military. You are all lip service patriots playing pat-a-cake with each other while cheering and rejoicing in the death of innocent civilians. Freediver's actions are particularly egregious as he tortures and kills marine animals for his enjoyment while fearing to face men and creatures that can defend themselves. Gnads needs to remove his butt plug and shove it down his throat. Please consider. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:50am
It's not over until The Grappler gripes.
In WW2, "the killing of unarmed Japanese was common". Recent Australian atrocities, excluding Manus and Nauru: Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:00pm:
:D :D :DUNFORGIVEN DOESN'T KNOW WHAT GOVERNMENTS ARE! |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:32pm Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:20pm:
gOD, PLEASE DON'T LET ME GO OUT LIKE THAT! ;D "hONEY,.......... THE COWS ARE COMING HOME ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:39pm Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
Spinoza said the same thing: man in his natural state will tend toward the side of cruelty because he's living amongst the animals who have the advantage in speed and weapons. Therefore the idea of living under some kind of a dominion comes into play... so that the common person could atleast sleep at night and in return his obligation was to live within moderation: i.e within the law. The people making up this dominion, however, have different obligations because they have taken on the role of man in his natural state......... Unforgiven is full of shite in other words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:07pm TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Denizen 'AnotherJourneyBy PoopChute' has collapsed looking like an empty sack after taking a dump. |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 13th, 2018 at 10:42pm
Military = violence industry. "Heroism on command, senseless violence, all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism."
https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/comedian-catherine-deveny-slammed-over-anzac-day-tweets/news-story/2e24934b4f29f9bf2137cd4096c1eed1 Quote:
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Unforgiven on Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:01pm
This mural tells it all.
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Valkie on Aug 14th, 2018 at 7:10pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:01pm:
So that's what happened to you🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤? Now I understand un4, why you have so much trouble with common sense There isn't anything between your ears. 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by Ye Grappler on Aug 14th, 2018 at 7:13pm
Anyone who imagines war is glamorous has never experienced it......
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Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 15th, 2018 at 12:28pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:01pm:
Fair Call! Where does it come from? |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 15th, 2018 at 12:33pm
The comedian responded: “You didn’t serve your country, you chose a job in the violence industry.”
It's a quote that will stand the test of time! Yet, at the same time: she's done nothing of any use to anyone but whinge about how bored she is of the privileged status these brave men afforded her! She's not much of a comedian and what she said was not even pedestrian! The things we do for a dollar ay :D :D :D :D :D :D |
Title: Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Aug 15th, 2018 at 12:36pm Unforgiven wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:07pm:
Cathy made money from her comments that were sub-standard! She will have to live with them as her meal ticket and will be afforded no status because of them! The facts are men are sent to war and women aren't: SHE DESERVES TO BE HOUNDED FOR SPEAKING FROM HER PRIVELEGED PULPIT BOUGHT WITH THE BLOOD OF SENTENCED MEN! |
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