http://evobsession.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-fail-in-depth/
I love the line
Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be.

750,000 Bevs in USA and 3000 fcev it’s not looking good.
Great idea but just so damm hard to implement
Maybe 20 years from now they will work out how to combat the high pressures and corrosiveness, until then it’s a fuel of the future.
Fool cells will make great range extenders for BEVs one day I just wonder if day should read year. ;) ;)

Looking at the red horsepower bars in this chart (also below), you can see that Toyota’s coming Mirai fuel cell car has even less horsepower than conventional hybrids despite costing much, much more (and note that Toyota is massively subsidizing the price of the Mirai in order to keep the price “low”). The Tesla Model S, on the other hand, has jaw-dropping performance for a similar price.
https://i0.wp.com/evobsession.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-performance.jpg

Hydrogen is new?

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car Costs Relative To Performance
No doubt about it: people expect a certain level of performance, comfort, and convenience when they buy a car, with the overall quality of those based to a large degree on how much they pay. There are common phrases people use that argue that everything comes down to money. Of course, for most of us, everything doesn’t come down to money, but many decisions are made according to what you get for a certain amount of money (and how that compares to other things you could get for the same amount of money). And this is fundamentally why hydrogen fuel cell cars are always the cars “of the future” — they simply can’t compete with other cars, cost-wise, and they very likely never will.
Yes, there is always room for scientific breakthroughs, but the bottom line is as Elon Musk has put it: current lithium-ion batteries offer better results than the theoretical best hydrogen fuel cells. More specifically, “the reality is that if you took a fuel cell vehicle and you take the best case for a fuel cell vehicle in terms of the mass and volume required to go a particular range, as well as the cost of the fuel cell system… if you took the best case of that, it does not even equal the current state of the art of lithium ion batteries, and so there is no way for it to become a workable technology.”
I guess this is a good time to note that cars utilizing lithium-ion batteries and cars utilizing hydrogen fuel cells are electric vehicles. They are simply equipped with different energy storage mechanisms and drivetrains.
;) ;)

https://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11470/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-1
I've been involved in the first international hydrogen racing championship. Started in 2007, it was called Formula Zero with 'zero' pertaining to being zero-emission. I was in one of the teams, known as Formula Zero Team Delft ('Forze') and my main raison d'être was designing and assembling electronics for the race kart. Yeah, they weren't actually full-fledged formula one cars; it was just small class racing karts. Top speed around 110-120km/h, 0-60 in about 3.5-4sec, nothing especially interesting about them from a racing perspective. But they were hydrogen powered, which was extremely cool back then and kind of still is - at least from a technical point of view. The Formula Zero championship eventually merged with Formula Student, so if you're interested in more info, take a look at their website. I am no longer involved with any of this - I've gone on to do my Master's thesis about power conversion in electric cars and I now have a couple of businesses that mostly do electronic system design for optimizing power conversion. In computers. Not quite the same anymore.

Nevertheless, I do have a lot of hands-on knowledge from my time at Formula Zero and I know what goes into building a hydrogen fuel cell powered car. I've done a lot of literature research and kept up with the technology. And: during all this time that hydrogen fuel cells have been in the news, I have never come across any kind of public article that properly explains WHY things are the way they are with these enigmatic machines. I've been meaning to write about it since at least 4 years, and thought I would have been beaten to the punch many times already. But no... so, here we go.

First of all, HFC cars are perceived to be a good bridge between fossil fuels and full electric because:
You can still fill up like you do with a gasoline or diesel powered car
The mileage you can get out of hydrogen is perceived to be more adequate than what you get from batteries
Hydrogen fuel cells are thought not to wear out as quickly as batteries (or conversely, batteries are thought to wear out very quickly)
Hydrogen as a fuel is perceived to be a relatively small infrastructural change from gasoline and diesel
Hydrogen is perceived as a cleaner solution than gasoline, diesel or natural gas
In reality,
You cannot fill up like you do with gasoline or diesel. It is actually pretty ridiculous how hard it is to fill up a HFC powered car
You won't even go 100 miles on current tech hydrogen tanks that are still safe to carry around in a car
Fuel cells wear out crazy fast and are hard to regenerate
Hydrogen as a fuel is incredibly hard to make and distribute with acceptably low losses
Additionally,
Hydrogen fuel cells have bad theoretical and practical efficiency
Hydrogen storage is inefficient, energetically, volumetrically and with respect to weight
HFCs require a poo ton of supporting systems, making them much more complicated and prone to failure than combustion or electric engines
There is no infrastructure for distributing or even making hydrogen in large quantities. There won't be for at least 20 or 30 years, even if we start building it like crazy today.
Hydrogen is actually pretty hard to make. It has a horrible well-to-wheel efficiency as a result.
Easy ways to get large quantities of hydrogen are not 'cleaner' than gasoline.
Efficient HFCs have very slow response times, meaning you again need additional systems to store energy for accelerating
Even though a HFC-powered car is essentially an electric car, you get none of the benefits like filling it up with your own power source, using it as a smart grid buffer, regenerating energy during braking, etc.
Battery electric cars will always be better in every way given the speed of technological developments past, present and future

The only thing i see is wrong with what he wrote is FCEV can go over 100 miles now but the rest is very interesting, 2 more articles after this one
;) ;)

EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point?

I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that.

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 8:05am:

EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that.

Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east.
Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered.
Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 8:15am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;)

Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 8:15am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;)

Ive been hearing that nonsense for over a decade. EVs are massively more expensive that petrol cars. And in Europe where they sell better than anywhere else is only because dumb Euro govt tax the crap outta petrol cars. Take away penalties and subsidies and EVs wouldnt sell more than 1% at best and R/E would be virtually unknown as well. ANY product that can only exist with massive subsidies is doomed to ultimate failure when those subsidies inevitably run out.

I never really looked into Fool cell cars until now, wow its so inefficient its amazing.
One 2 million dollar 'gas Station' can fill 36 toyota miras a day...
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099548_gas-electricity-hydrogen-how-many-cars-can-fuel-and-what-will-it-cost
According to the California Air Resources Board, those stations will have a maximum fueling capacity of 180 kilograms of hydrogen per day.
That's enough to fill 36 Toyota Mirai vehicles completely each day; the Mirai has a stated fuel capacity of 5 kg.
In other words, while the refueling process itself will likely take less than 10 minutes--or a total of six hours for those 36 Mirais--the other 18 hours is required for the necessary hydrogen to be generated and compressed.

A modern gas station and convenience store, with 12 pumps in three or four single or double ranks, can serve as many as 12 vehicles simultaneously and costs roughly $2 million to construct.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk said a few years ago that Supercharger sites cost $150,000 to build when connected to grid power, and $300,000 when photovoltaic solar panels were included to provide renewable electricity.
That works out to a theoretical maximum of 16,200 kilowatt-hours over a 24-hour day
If every car was an 85-kWh Model S taking up 60 kWh, that would be about 70 actual cars--but it's probably more than 100, assuming some partial charging.

The biggist thing to remember with BEV's is that almost all recharging is done at home, at night. The owners only need to use public chargers for long trips.
Not even mentioned it takes 5 times the electricity to make Hydrogen then ready it for a car than it does for a battery only electric car.
Shell and BP are now putting electric chargers in their gas stations, power already there and cheep to put one in, it will be a long time until they put in a Hydrogen pump that will cost 2 million dollars to fill 30 cars for the day. ;) ;)

BigOl64 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 8:44am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical

Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:05am:

BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;)

Not even close. Along with the fact we are shutting down our refineries, chemical plants we will be the third world utopia the greens have been dreaming about before too long.

We are anti-industry, we are anti- mining, we are anti- resources, we are anti-petrochemicals. Where do you think such an anti- industry country will end up?

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:03am:

I never really looked into Fool cell cars until now, wow its so inefficient its amazing. One 2 million dollar 'gas Station' can fill 36 toyota miras a day... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099548_gas-electricity-hydrogen-how-many-cars-can-fuel-and-what-will-it-cost According to the California Air Resources Board, those stations will have a maximum fueling capacity of 180 kilograms of hydrogen per day. That's enough to fill 36 Toyota Mirai vehicles completely each day; the Mirai has a stated fuel capacity of 5 kg. In other words, while the refueling process itself will likely take less than 10 minutes--or a total of six hours for those 36 Mirais--the other 18 hours is required for the necessary hydrogen to be generated and compressed. A modern gas station and convenience store, with 12 pumps in three or four single or double ranks, can serve as many as 12 vehicles simultaneously and costs roughly $2 million to construct. Tesla CEO Elon Musk said a few years ago that Supercharger sites cost $150,000 to build when connected to grid power, and $300,000 when photovoltaic solar panels were included to provide renewable electricity. That works out to a theoretical maximum of 16,200 kilowatt-hours over a 24-hour day If every car was an 85-kWh Model S taking up 60 kWh, that would be about 70 actual cars--but it's probably more than 100, assuming some partial charging. The biggist thing to remember with BEV's is that almost all recharging is done at home, at night. The owners only need to use public chargers for long trips. Not even mentioned it takes 5 times the electricity to make Hydrogen then ready it for a car than it does for a battery only electric car. Shell and BP are now putting electric chargers in their gas stations, power already there and cheep to put one in, it will be a long time until they put in a Hydrogen pump that will cost 2 million dollars to fill 30 cars for the day. ;) ;)

It's funny how there will only be technological advancements in batteries and absolutely none in hydrogen production. Lucky for you lot isn't it?

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21^st, 2018 at 3:08pm:

http://evobsession.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-fail-in-depth/ I love the line Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be. 750,000 Bevs in USA and 3000 fcev it’s not looking good. Great idea but just so damm hard to implement Maybe 20 years from now they will work out how to combat the high pressures and corrosiveness, until then it’s a fuel of the future. Fool cells will make great range extenders for BEVs one day I just wonder if day should read year. ;) ;)

It's always 20 years away :D LOL

Maybe socko and Big hole can give them a few ideas :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:24am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 3:08pm: http://evobsession.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-fail-in-depth/ I love the line Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be. 750,000 Bevs in USA and 3000 fcev it’s not looking good. Great idea but just so damm hard to implement Maybe 20 years from now they will work out how to combat the high pressures and corrosiveness, until then it’s a fuel of the future. Fool cells will make great range extenders for BEVs one day I just wonder if day should read year. ;) ;) It's always 20 years away :D LOL Maybe socko and Big hole can give them a few ideas :D LOL

No matter what, you will still be driving your 1989  Corolla to the dole office ya povo loser.   ;D ;D ;D

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 8:05am:

EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that.

The people who buy Tesla's are not the people who would own a Corolla. And weren't you telling us that nobody would ever buy a Tesla and yet Tesla can't make enough of them ;)

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 8:47am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Ive been hearing that nonsense for over a decade. EVs are massively more expensive that petrol cars. And in Europe where they sell better than anywhere else is only because dumb Euro govt tax the crap outta petrol cars. Take away penalties and subsidies and EVs wouldnt sell more than 1% at best and R/E would be virtually unknown as well. ANY product that can only exist with massive subsidies is doomed to ultimate failure when those subsidies inevitably run out.

If u want to dicuss ev's being relevant , please there are lots of threads, this one is about hydrogen, please give me your thought on Hydrogen and fuel cells, that would be great.
Why r they taxing Fossil Fuel Cars..... maybe all the poisons they exhaust ???? ;) DDT
Please run your car in a garage for 30mins if u think I'm wrong, or just suck on the tail pipe.... yum  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

BigOl64 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:17am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) Not even close. Along with the fact we are shutting down our refineries, chemical plants we will be the third world utopia the greens have been dreaming about before too long. We are anti-industry, we areanti- mining[, we are anti- resources, we are anti-petrochemicals. Where do you think such an anti- industry country will end up?

well if will be a lot easier to breath. Tesla brings 5 Billion Dollars of Revinue into California a year. Pitty they r not in QLD.
and your thoughts on Hydrogen Big  :D :D :D ;)

BigOl64 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:19am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:03am: I never really looked into Fool cell cars until now, wow its so inefficient its amazing. One 2 million dollar 'gas Station' can fill 36 toyota miras a day... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099548_gas-electricity-hydrogen-how-many-cars-can-fuel-and-what-will-it-cost According to the California Air Resources Board, those stations will have a maximum fueling capacity of 180 kilograms of hydrogen per day. That's enough to fill 36 Toyota Mirai vehicles completely each day; the Mirai has a stated fuel capacity of 5 kg. In other words, while the refueling process itself will likely take less than 10 minutes--or a total of six hours for those 36 Mirais--the other 18 hours is required for the necessary hydrogen to be generated and compressed. A modern gas station and convenience store, with 12 pumps in three or four single or double ranks, can serve as many as 12 vehicles simultaneously and costs roughly $2 million to construct. Tesla CEO Elon Musk said a few years ago that Supercharger sites cost $150,000 to build when connected to grid power, and $300,000 when photovoltaic solar panels were included to provide renewable electricity. That works out to a theoretical maximum of 16,200 kilowatt-hours over a 24-hour day If every car was an 85-kWh Model S taking up 60 kWh, that would be about 70 actual cars--but it's probably more than 100, assuming some partial charging. The biggist thing to remember with BEV's is that almost all recharging is done at home, at night. The owners only need to use public chargers for long trips. Not even mentioned it takes 5 times the electricity to make Hydrogen then ready it for a car than it does for a battery only electric car. Shell and BP are now putting electric chargers in their gas stations, power already there and cheep to put one in, it will be a long time until they put in a Hydrogen pump that will cost 2 million dollars to fill 30 cars for the day. ;) ;) It's funny how there will only be technological advancements in batteries and absolutely none in hydrogen production. Lucky for you lot isn't it?

I'm not sure where I said that Big... maybe a we bit of projecting on your part. ;)
I'm sure there will be many advances in both which is good for both because fuel cell cars are electric vehicles and a good cheep range extender will be welcome. ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:05am:

BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;)

try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out.

try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out.

Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good?

You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all.

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:42am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all.

wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;)
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518090670
Maybe your latest little story can go here ?

yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;)

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:42am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all.

the same capacity that is running all of these reverse cycle air conditioners that I never hear you whinge about ?

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:48am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:42am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all. wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;) yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;)

Oil, child. We have oodles of it and it works spectacularly well. Our entire civilisation was built on it. Might be a clue there.

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:52am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:48am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:42am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all. wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;) yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;) Oil, child. We have oodles of it and it works spectacularly well. Our entire civilisation was built on it. Might be a clue there.

Pollution kills at least nine million people and costs trillions of dollars every year, according to the most comprehensive global analysis to date, which warns the crisis “threatens the continuing survival of human societies”.
Oil the way of the future......... :P :P :P

yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;)

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:52am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:48am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:42am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all. wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;) yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;) Oil, child. We have oodles of it and it works spectacularly well. Our entire civilisation was built on it. Might be a clue there.

The sun will be shining long after you have used up all of the oil and then what are you going to do ?

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:36am:

BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:17am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) Not even close. Along with the fact we are shutting down our refineries, chemical plants we will be the third world utopia the greens have been dreaming about before too long. We are anti-industry, we areanti- mining[, we are anti- resources, we are anti-petrochemicals. Where do you think such an anti- industry country will end up? well if will be a lot easier to breath. Tesla brings 5 Billion Dollars of Revinue into California a year. Pitty they r not in QLD. and your thoughts on Hydrogen Big  :D :D :D ;)

It will be a vastly superior system to batteries by far.

BigOl64 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 10:06am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:36am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:17am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) Not even close. Along with the fact we are shutting down our refineries, chemical plants we will be the third world utopia the greens have been dreaming about before too long. We are anti-industry, we areanti- mining[, we are anti- resources, we are anti-petrochemicals. Where do you think such an anti- industry country will end up? well if will be a lot easier to breath. Tesla brings 5 Billion Dollars of Revinue into California a year. Pitty they r not in QLD. and your thoughts on Hydrogen Big  :D :D :D ;) It will be a vastly superior system to batteries by far.

well you'll have to wait another 20 years and another 20 years after that.... before you see it :D LOL

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 9:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:52am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:48am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:42am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all. wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;) yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;) Oil, child. We have oodles of it and it works spectacularly well. Our entire civilisation was built on it. Might be a clue there. Pollution kills at least nine million people and costs trillions of dollars every year, according to the most comprehensive global analysis to date, which warns the crisis “threatens the continuing survival of human societies”. Oil the way of the future......... :P :P :P yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;)

how about some links to that?

btw, oil is literally the fuel that FEEDS and HEATS much of the world as well.

and climate change is just another example of overreach. Climate is not outside norms of variation nor heading there. We are still cooler than 1000 years ago.

Sir lastnail wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 10:13am:

BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 10:06am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:36am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:17am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) Not even close. Along with the fact we are shutting down our refineries, chemical plants we will be the third world utopia the greens have been dreaming about before too long. We are anti-industry, we areanti- mining[, we are anti- resources, we are anti-petrochemicals. Where do you think such an anti- industry country will end up? well if will be a lot easier to breath. Tesla brings 5 Billion Dollars of Revinue into California a year. Pitty they r not in QLD. and your thoughts on Hydrogen Big  :D :D :D ;) It will be a vastly superior system to batteries by far. well you'll have to wait another 20 years and another 20 years after that.... before you see it :D LOL

And unlike you Ill be able to afford it.  :) :)

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 10:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:54am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:52am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:48am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:42am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all. wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;) yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;) Oil, child. We have oodles of it and it works spectacularly well. Our entire civilisation was built on it. Might be a clue there. Pollution kills at least nine million people and costs trillions of dollars every year, according to the most comprehensive global analysis to date, which warns the crisis “threatens the continuing survival of human societies”. Oil the way of the future......... :P :P :P yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) how about some links to that? btw, oil is literally the fuel that FEEDS and HEATS much of the world as well. and climate change is just another example of overreach. Climate is not outside norms of variation nor heading there. We are still cooler than 1000 years ago.

I never argue climate temps, only the poisons coming from fossil fuels which no one refute.
Google is your friend Week ,just type in pollution deaths 2017 for a start  ;) ;) ;)
and Hydrogen is mentioned .... is it the worse energy  ;) ;) ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 10:34am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 10:21am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:54am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:52am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:48am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:42am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am: BigOl64 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:15am: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 8:05am: EVs cant compete with petrol cars on price either so what is your point? I saw my first Tesla today. Ive seen more Ferraris than that. Ive never seen a news report that says a BEV wont have cost pairity, it just how many years away, some say2-3 some say 20, so BEV will be same price even cheeper than ice's and the biggist thing is no more oil from the middle east. Hydrogen will never be cheeper, well unless there are a lot of new technologies discovered. Bev's need scale, Fcev's need engineering. ;) ;) Yes because the entire petrochemical industry and everything that derives from that is of no use to us as a first world country at al, does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical Australia makes 5% of our oil, that will more than make all the plastics and other bits and pieces if we stop using oil for a fuel source. ;) ;) try ships and planes running on battery. See how that works out. try heavy equipment running on batteries and see how they work out. Also, try electrifying the entire national train network and see how that works out. Plus... where is your extra electricity generation capacity to charge all these EVs at night after the sun has gone down and solar does you no good? You are a zealot with all the pragmatic plans of a zealot ie none at all. wow insults to make a point... your so good at this Long  ;) ;) yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) ;) Oil, child. We have oodles of it and it works spectacularly well. Our entire civilisation was built on it. Might be a clue there. Pollution kills at least nine million people and costs trillions of dollars every year, according to the most comprehensive global analysis to date, which warns the crisis “threatens the continuing survival of human societies”. Oil the way of the future......... :P :P :P yes I can see where hydrogen can be involved in all of that  ;) ;) how about some links to that? btw, oil is literally the fuel that FEEDS and HEATS much of the world as well. and climate change is just another example of overreach. Climate is not outside norms of variation nor heading there. We are still cooler than 1000 years ago. I never argue climate temps, only the poisons coming from fossil fuels which no one refute. Google is your friend Week ,just type in pollution deaths 2017 for a start  ;) ;) ;) and Hydrogen is mentioned .... is it the worse energy  ;) ;) ;)

why dont you also google the industrial revolution and how it transformed the planet and how it is powered by.... oil and gas.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel.
"I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology.
Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now.

Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:19pm:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;)

You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not.

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:27pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:19pm: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;) You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not.

yes yes insult insult.... U know insults make your opinion really worthwhile  ;)
I am as always ???? Proof  :D
Fact
       Hydrogen in Claifornia is (US)$17 a Litre
       The Manufactures give $15000 credit to FCEV in Cal
       Most of the Stations are breaking down and some for years.

Show me  'Insane  Critical' on this. I'm quite happy to be shown wrong  ;) ;) ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:27pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:19pm: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;) You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not. yes yes insult insult.... U know insults make your opinion really worthwhile  ;) I am as always ???? Proof  :D Fact        Hydrogen in Claifornia is (US)$17 a Litre        The Manufactures give $15000 credit to FCEV in Cal        Most of the Stations are breaking down and some for years. Show me  'Insane  Critical' on this. I'm quite happy to be shown wrong  ;) ;) ;)

You miss the point as you always so. EVs are unaffordable for joe average and unwanted by the same. THAT is your problem, petrol-car-driver.

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 12:27pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:19pm: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;) You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not.

Speak for yourself longprong who apparently now owns a solar PV system after years of bagging it in favour of the never ever fusion pie in the sky !!

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 3:47pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:49pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:27pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:19pm: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;) You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not. yes yes insult insult.... U know insults make your opinion really worthwhile  ;) I am as always ???? Proof  :D Fact        Hydrogen in Claifornia is (US)$17 a Litre        The Manufactures give $15000 credit to FCEV in Cal        Most of the Stations are breaking down and some for years. Show me  'Insane  Critical' on this. I'm quite happy to be shown wrong  ;) ;) ;) You miss the point as you always so. EVs are unaffordable for joe average and unwanted by the same. THAT is your problem, petrol-car-driver.

EV's are currently unaffordable because the fossil fool car manufacturers refuse to manufacturer them in the same economies of scale they do for fossil fool vehicles.

Also fossil fool cars are artificially subsidized by future revenue from service and spare parts which is not applicable to EV's hence the reason why they bump up the price on them !!

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 3:47pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:49pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:27pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:19pm: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;) You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not. yes yes insult insult.... U know insults make your opinion really worthwhile  ;) I am as always ???? Proof  :D Fact        Hydrogen in Claifornia is (US)$17 a Litre        The Manufactures give $15000 credit to FCEV in Cal        Most of the Stations are breaking down and some for years. Show me  'Insane  Critical' on this. I'm quite happy to be shown wrong  ;) ;) ;) You miss the point as you always so. EVs are unaffordable for joe average and unwanted by the same. THAT is your problem, petrol-car-driver.

Ohh dear can’t answer any of the last post, so just redirect and start insults again..... well done long.
And what’s your thoughts on hydrogen ? ;) :P

Sir lastnail wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 4:08pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 3:47pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:49pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:27pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 12:19pm: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099738_hydrogen-fueling-station-reliability-an-issue-for-some-time-to-comeThose problems are not unique to the station he runs, Dray said, commenting that failures at multiple stations often compound frustration for drivers, who are forced to spend more time in L.A.'s infamous traffic searching for fuel. "I think [reliability] is going to be an issue for some time," Dray said, attributing the challenges to the newness of the technology. Thus far, it hasn't collected a single cent directly from a customer. Manufacturers are picking up the tab, for now. Damm its lucky for the manufactures of these vehicles that they have only made 3500 worldwide so far , if they have to pick up the fuel bill ($17 for 1 litre of Hydrogen in Cal) ;) ;) You are, as always, insanely critical of new technologies unless is it YOUR fav tech. That generally makes your opinion close to worthless. Zealots are everywhere. EV-owning commentators however, are not. yes yes insult insult.... U know insults make your opinion really worthwhile  ;) I am as always ???? Proof  :D Fact        Hydrogen in Claifornia is (US)$17 a Litre        The Manufactures give $15000 credit to FCEV in Cal        Most of the Stations are breaking down and some for years. Show me  'Insane  Critical' on this. I'm quite happy to be shown wrong  ;) ;) ;) You miss the point as you always so. EVs are unaffordable for joe average and unwanted by the same. THAT is your problem, petrol-car-driver. EV's are currently unaffordable because the fossil fool car manufacturers refuse to manufacturer them in the same economies of scale they do for fossil fool vehicles. Also fossil fool cars are artificially subsidized by future revenue from service and spare parts which is not applicable to EV's hence the reason why they bump up the price on them !!

I forget that BEVs won’t need much servicing and going to ruin after sales and most mechanics, damm it will be cheep once they get down in price. :) :)

Hydrogen is not an energy source. It's just another battery.

freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Hydrogen is not an energy source. It's just another battery.

So hydrogen is a battery ? Does that make petrol a battery too ?
Maybe your thinking of a fuel cell which makes electricity then  recharges the batteries and or powers the electric motor in the car.
Hydrogen can also be used like petrol but is really expensive.
Hydrogen is a explosive gas. Hydrogen will not store energy, it is a energy  ;) ;)

Wow look at the hundereds of Millions the Aussie states r willing to throw away on Hydrogen, when every house and business already has power to charge some batteries, its Water Desalt :all again :) :D

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/2/16/16926950/hydrogen-fuel-technology-economy-hytech-storage
It’s called Internal Combustion Assistance (ICA), a modification to internal combustion engines that enables them to substantially increase their fuel efficiency and reduce their air pollution. It does this by adding tiny amounts of gaseous hydrogen and oxygen to the fuel just before it is combusted in the engine’s cylinders. The HHO mix lends intensity to the combustion, allowing the fuel to burn more completely, generating more oomph and less pollution.
The ICA system can technically work on any internal combustion engine, but to begin with, HyTech is targeting the dirtiest engines with the fastest return on investment, namely diesel engines — in vehicles like trucks, delivery vans, buses, and forklifts, but also big, stationary diesel generators, which still provide backup (and even primary) power by the millions across the world.
All those diesel engines produce carcinogenic smoke containing particulate pollution (soot) and nitrogen oxides (NOx), which are hell on human health. States and cities around the world are cracking down on diesel air pollution.
HyTech’s offer to that market is pretty remarkable: it claims that its ICA can improve the fuel efficiency of a diesel engine between 20 and 30 percent, reduce particulate matter by 85 percent, and reduce NOx by between 50 and 90 percent. In concert with a DPF and some SCR, it can yield a diesel engine that meets official California standards for an “ultra-low emissions” vehicle.
The cost of transforming a dirty diesel engine to a relatively clean one: around $10,000 installed, which HyTech estimates will pay itself back in nine months through avoided fuel and maintenance costs.


They have this hydrogen booster that looks promising, these have been around for years but this one is much more controlled and looks like it will work.
Every diesel truck owner will be wanting these and id say every new one will have one if this works as they say.

The next project they have looks even better to convert ICE vehicles 100% to hydrogen buy making its own hydrogen and adding to liquid, they say they have a prototype.. could be pie in the sky though it directors r pretty impressive.
If these work I'm might just have to eat my words on Hydrogen. They have bypassed all the problems with hydrogen now (high pressure and made from Fossil Fuels)
I guess just keep a eye on it ;) ;)
If it does work all these millions that the aussie government are spending on hydrogen gathering will be just another white elephant on a long list of them. :D ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 22^nd, 2018 at 7:22pm:

freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 7:09pm: Hydrogen is not an energy source. It's just another battery. So hydrogen is a battery ? Does that make petrol a battery too ? Maybe your thinking of a fuel cell which makes electricity then  recharges the batteries and or powers the electric motor in the car. Hydrogen can also be used like petrol but is really expensive. Hydrogen is a explosive gas. Hydrogen will not store energy, it is a energy  ;) ;)

problem is that unlike oil Hydrogen does not occur in abundance in nature so it has to be created using energy so hence the reference to it as a battery. Hydrogen is an energy carrier and an excuse by socko and his mates to keep ripping us all off on our energy needs..