Quote:

House Republicans Pass Historic Tax Reform! — Stock Market JUMPS 215+ Points! – ZERO DEMOCRAT VOTES The Republican House passed historic tax reform today. The final vote was 227 to 205 no votes. EVERY DEMOCRAT VOTED AGAINST TAX CUTS FOR WORKING AMERICANS! NOT ONE DEMOCRAT VOTED FOR TAX RELIEF FOR WORKING AMERICANS! Just think of that for a minute… President Trump and Vice President Pence met with House Republican members before the vote today. The Dow jumped over 200 points on the successful vote.

The House passed "tax reform." Now it goes to the Senate where tax cuts for the very wealthiest aren't quite as popular. Sorry!

Love, aka Brother Love wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

The House passed "tax reform." Now it goes to the Senate where tax cuts for the very wealthiest aren't quite as popular. Sorry!

Oh, this will pass alright. And then, Amerika may well be led into terminal decline. The Reagan tax cuts led to deficits. Once taxes are cut, there's no raising them again. This would be politically impossible - hence why no president from Bush Snr to Obama has raised taxes, despite the huge US debt, which is predicted to rise to 100% of US GDP.

Bush Snr was booted out for not delivering on promised tax cuts, and he didn't deliver because he saw what this would do to the US economy. His son failed to learn, and cut taxes further. The deficit is where it is today because of Bush Jnr's tax cuts. By then, Bill Clinton had paid off the Reagan debts. In the US, the Democrats are seen as the party of economic management, thanks largely to Clinton.

If history is anything to go by - the Reagan and Bush cuts - the US economy will shrink, not grow. All tax cuts since Reagan have put all that wasted money in the pockets of the top 1%. Wealth inequality has grown accordingly. Rather than increasing economic growth as the economist Laffer claimed, cutting the taxes of the rich simply moves this money into savings and trust accounts - much of it offshore.

Since the GFC, governments have kept the global economy afloat. We've moved on from the whole Reagan mistrust in government, and for sound economic reasons. There has been a growing movement by the richest US citizens to reverse the political tax cut auctions. Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Warren Buffet want their taxes raised. They also want to raise the minimum wage. Doing this creates demand. Putting more money into the hands of the rich does not create supply. As Keynes showed in the 1930s, putting money in the hands of middle class consumers does. This creates economic growth.

These cuts are a huge mistake that may well cripple the US. Trump does not learn from history, and he's surrounded himself with rich billionaires, all of them, including Trump, born into money. Trump's cabinet aren't self-made Gateses or Zuckerburgs or Buffets, they're Establishment elites. This is the type who will benefit from these cuts, which largely go into savings and inheritance. They have no intention to make America great again. Like Trump, they're there for their own interests. While this is hardly uncommon in US government, never has the self-interest of appointed officials been so naked and unabashed. Trump has appointed just the sort of croney hacks he claimed to be running against. In return, he's made the generous gesture of refusing his presidential salary.

Yes, for the princely sum of 300-odd thousand dollars a year, Americans get to have their country's wealth handed over to the corporate Establishment, who just got a 20% tax cut.

Drain the swamp indeed.

It wont pass the senate. It also RAISES taxes for the poor by as much as 20%. It also RAISES taxes for the middle class. It also makes healthcare MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.  So why is this a reform????

Because the mega wealthy get massive tax cuts.

I am sometimes astonished by just how incredibly stupid and naive are the GOP. The 'reform package is hated by most americans for rather obvious reasons and it will end up failing in the senate where if only 3 Repub senators cote against it then it is already gone. McCain and two others have already indicated they will vote against it.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

It wont pass the senate. It also RAISES taxes for the poor by as much as 20%. It also RAISES taxes for the middle class. It also makes healthcare MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.  So why is this a reform???? Because the mega wealthy get massive tax cuts. I am sometimes astonished by just how incredibly stupid and naive are the GOP. The 'reform package is hated by most americans for rather obvious reasons and it will end up failing in the senate where if only 3 Repub senators cote against it then it is already gone. McCain and two others have already indicated they will vote against it.

Maybe, but that's why the American people voted for Mr Trump - he's the negotiator.

All he has to do is invite McCain out for a game of golf and entertain him with a few stories on the cut throat world of the 1980s Manhattan property market.

Mr Trump will have him in the bag.

As for the other two, get the Russians to put something radioactive in their orange juice. Get Bannon to replace them with a couple of Trump stooges. Who knows? Maybe even a couple of Trump's kids can fudge their security clearances and step in to pass the vote.

You wait until the Trump tapes are released. This is just the type of planning going on in the Oval Office.

WE WILL MAKE AMERIKA GREAT AGAIN, no?

..


Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 11:59am:

Love, aka Brother Love wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 10:15am: The House passed "tax reform." Now it goes to the Senate where tax cuts for the very wealthiest aren't quite as popular. Sorry! .....Once taxes are cut, there's no raising them again. This would be politically impossible - hence why no president from Bush Snr to Obama has raised taxes......

There are so many other ways.

Did you ever hear of "Bracket Creep", when your income rises landing you in a higher tax bracket?

American incomes, & therefore taxes, are affected by Administrative Policies, among other things, & those policies were an effective way of raising taxes.

I think you would be interested in a few publications regarding your above statement, where policies were effectively used to raise American Taxes (not limited to payroll & income taxes) without direct tax legislation. The documents are out there if you search, because everything is part of the public record.

Ronald Reagan's tax cuts actually generated enough economic stimulation across all sectors that it caused the net tax income of the Federal Government to dramatically increase via income/payroll taxes (companies hired more people at higher wages, causing the government to benefit through higher net income tax income)

Here is just one TAX CHART of many, that you might find interesting:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Federal_taxes_by_type.pdf/page1-1200px-Federal_taxes_by_type.pdf.jpg

Source: Taxation History of the United States (link)


I don't mind if the rich get a tax break.....I don't do income envy.....I'll leave that in the good hands of the Socialists & Communists.

The poor & the middle class don't put people to work, the rich corporations do. Tax breaks do wonders......

JFYI......if everyone had more spendable income, prices would rise, effectively wiping out any small gain you seemingly make, but if you want to grow jobs, lower corporate taxation will usually spur on job growth, because more production through more working hands mean more corporate profits. Amazing how it is, isn't it......the rich who want to earn more money, employ more workers, to produce more product to sell. ;)

Enjoy ;)

..

Panther, you mustn't confuse Karnal with economics. It just wants to talk about racism.

What a Great President!

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 5:00pm:

Panther, you mustn't confuse Karnal with economics. It just wants to talk about racism. What a Great President!

Racism.....well, then she'll just eat it up!

Anyone making more that $8.00 an hour in America is a racist to those making $7.25.... Everybody knows that.

Well, somebody might get something out of it.....

I know, I know you can drag a mule to water, but it can't be forced to drink....
messes up the lipstick they say, or something like that. https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/chuckle002.gif



I completely agree......What a Great President!!!!



Heads & shoulders better than the previous HNIC......opppps!! https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/sprint.gif 

That's gunna piss off a few local thin skins!  ;D ;D ;D

Panther wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 6:07pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 5:00pm: Panther, you mustn't confuse Karnal with economics. It just wants to talk about racism. What a Great President! Racism.....well, then she'll just eat it up! Anyone making more that $7.00 an hour in America is a racist to those making $6.75.... Everybody knows that. Well, somebody might get something out of it..... I know, I know you can drag a mule to water, but it can't be forced to drink.... messes up the lipstick they say, or something like that. https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/chuckle002.gif I completely agree......What a Great President!!!! Heads & shoulders better than the previous HNIC......opppps!! https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/sprint.gif  That's gunna piss off a few local thin skins!  ;D ;D ;D

so you are in favour of RAISING taxes on the poor and middle-class and lowering them on millionaires and billionaires?

Awwwwwww......did you mumble something???

Ohh well, prolly jus another one of yer Leftist Rants!!!

https://s33.postimg.org/4ei3oj44f/lw00006.jpg

Glad I missed it!  ;D ;D ;D

https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/ignorea.gif

So the pro-pedo coward Panther has nothing to say?


aww.....




idiot

What was that???????

Speak up boy....spit it out!!! https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/taunt.gif

https://s33.postimg.org/r4h8hofnz/lw00007.jpg
;D ;D ;D
https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/ignorea.gif

[media width=725]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqEL1sRg__E[/media]


Quote:

After many months of deliberation, internal conflict, and discussion, the GOP has finally passed its much awaited tax reform. One of the controversial aspects of this new tax reform is that it favors businesses, and while conservatives argue that this increases competitiveness of the market, liberals cry corruption. CNBC calls this new tax reform, passed by the GOP after much consideration, “the biggest step yet” in their “once-in-a-generation effort to overhaul the American tax system.” For decades now, taxes have squashed businesses into submission, but hopefully with this new corporate tax rate, America’s economy will be booming once again. The bill cuts the corporate tax rate down to 20% from an incredibly high 35%, and has made other tweaks aiming to make businesses far more competitive in today’s global economy. We saw some of the most crushing tax rates under the Obama administration, but with President Trump in office it seems that there’s a new tune to be sung. It’s a tune that champions the working class, and reduces taxes for everyone—something that liberals have widely attacked as favoring the rich. Yet even though the upper 1% will be saving money, so will the bottom 99% in this country. It’s estimated that: Those earning between $20,000 and $30,000 a year would see a 10.4% decrease in taxes Those earning between $50,000 and $70,000 a year would see a 7.1% decrease in taxes Those earning over $1,000,000 a year would see a 5.3% tax cut In contrast however, many middle class households will see a tax increase due to loss of deductions. While President Trump has published his official tax plan on his website, it’s still uncertain as to what the exact details are of this new and bold tax reform.... ........ “Through regular order and an open and transparent amendment process, the members of the Senate’s tax writing committee are also making real progress on a bill that’s been years in the making to fulfil our promise to the American people,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said after the House vote. Earlier Thursday, President Trump visited Capitol Hill to meet with House Republicans ahead of the vote.....

The poor & the middle class don't create jobs, the Corporations do!!!.....

Especially if they have more to invest in employing new workers due to the planned corporate tax breaks....workers that produce, & earn good wages....workers that will also pay new taxes into government coffers. ;)

The Working Poor are getting tax breaks.....see above.
The lower middle class is getting tax breaks....see above
The upper middle class will be seeing a modest tax increase in the form of lost deductions.....those that take the standard deductions will fare better.

The unemployed will see more opportunities via new job creation....

All plan estimates are variable simply because nobody knows how much envious Senate demonrats will butcher the plan to hurt the American Working Class, who are BTW the ones who voted for Trump.

All you will hear from the Left is Class Envy, hate, & words meant to divide & destroy America.

The welfare recipient will still get their food stamps & minimal welfare benefits.....no welfare increases are planned in the next 7 years of the Trump Administration.....

[media width=725]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDIWSD4kUE[/media]

I am always suspicious when they list an 'estimated' tax cut, in this case, for the poor. With the actual rates in place you shoul be able to PRECISELY calculate the 'cut'. This sounds like they are including things like 'trickle down' or other 'estimated' factors to convince people that a lowest rate of now 12% is somehow lower than the old rate of 10%.

All smoke an mirrors from a party that is absolutely determined to punish people for the crime of not being rich. This is why in the western world, USA has both the most billionaires and also, the most people in poverty.

Tax change is almost never reform.

Here is another example.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 7:17pm:

Tax change is almost never reform. Here is another example.

a change is a reform Puddle Duck...

you are like Dead-End... its like you never get sick of being wrong...  ::)

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 8:51pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 7:17pm: Tax change is almost never reform. Here is another example. a change is a reform Puddle Duck... you are like Dead-End... its like you never get sick of being wrong...  ::)

since when does 'change' equal 'reform'?  reform means change, but change does not mean reform. This is probably understood by anyone with an IQ over 80...

oh... sorry... I get you now

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 6:10pm:

Panther wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 6:07pm: bogarde73 wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 5:00pm: Panther, you mustn't confuse Karnal with economics. It just wants to talk about racism. What a Great President! Racism.....well, then she'll just eat it up! Anyone making more that $7.00 an hour in America is a racist to those making $6.75.... Everybody knows that. Well, somebody might get something out of it..... I know, I know you can drag a mule to water, but it can't be forced to drink.... messes up the lipstick they say, or something like that. https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/chuckle002.gif I completely agree......What a Great President!!!! Heads & shoulders better than the previous HNIC......opppps!! https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/sprint.gif  That's gunna piss off a few local thin skins!  ;D ;D ;D so you are in favour of RAISING taxes on the poor and middle-class and lowering them on millionaires and billionaires?

What's wrong with that?

I put my views forward, but they were rebutted. Obviously, I was wrong.

So you tell me - why shouldn't we help rich people make more money off the poor? They don't need it.

The rich have weddings and barmitzfas and parties to plan for. Why can't we think of them?

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 11:59am:

These cuts are a huge mistake that may well cripple the US.

That no longer matters. The Rethuglicons have been waiting for years to fiaally loot the Dept of Treasury, rob and eventually kill off the poor and gut the America middle class to pieces.

Just look at what these "tax cuts" will do to the American working class by installing provisions that reduce or eliminate existing tax deductions on which working class families heavily rely. Such deductions range anywhere from mortgage interest, state and local taxes, medical expenses, student loans interest and other higher education tax benefits.

Trump's elimination of tax credits for medical expenses will have a devastating impact on the elderly people with high medical bills. Trump's repeal of education tax breaks will only add an estimated $65 billion to the federal tax coffers over ten years, at tremendous cost to undergrads and graduate students as myself who are seeking to pay off student loans and graduate students whose tuition waivers will become taxable income.

And that's only a drop in the bucket Trump wants to pull in spiraling America down a slope upon it will never recover from.
http://www.fox21online.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Ron-Johnson.jpg
Oh look, another white guy

If any hope is one the horizon, passage of this ridiculous bill by the Senate remains unclear; Rethuglicons, with a narrow 52 to 48 majority, can afford only two defections from their ranks. Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin announced that he would oppose the present bill, and several other Republican senators have voiced doubts over the measure. So who knows?

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Nov 17^th, 2017 at 8:51pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 7:17pm: Tax change is almost never reform. Here is another example. a change is a reform Puddle Duck... you are like Dead-End... its like you never get sick of being wrong...  ::)

A reform is a change that improves something. Change for the sake of change, change for ideology or change which has a negative impact is not reform.

More of a deform really.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 5:35am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:51pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 7:17pm: Tax change is almost never reform. Here is another example. a change is a reform Puddle Duck... you are like Dead-End... its like you never get sick of being wrong...  ::) A reform is a change that improves something. Change for the sake of change, change for ideology or change which has a negative impact is not reform. More of a deform really.

I thought that was obvious, but when you are dealing with a flat-earther, pro-pedo poster like mechanic, nothing can be assumed.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 5:35am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:51pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 7:17pm: Tax change is almost never reform. Here is another example. a change is a reform Puddle Duck... you are like Dead-End... its like you never get sick of being wrong...  ::) A reform is a change that improves something. Change for the sake of change, change for ideology or change which has a negative impact is not reform.

https://s7.postimg.org/7yzlw07aj/The_Beef.gif

Simplistic in nature, but there's enough meat there to agree upon......  https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/cheerskj4.gif

Panther wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 8:25am:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18th, 2017 at 5:35am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:51pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 7:17pm: Tax change is almost never reform. Here is another example. a change is a reform Puddle Duck... you are like Dead-End... its like you never get sick of being wrong...  ::) A reform is a change that improves something. Change for the sake of change, change for ideology or change which has a negative impact is not reform. Simplistic in nature, but there's enough meat there to agree upon......  https://33sm.net16.net/smileys/cheerskj4.gif

hey DNA.... panther agrees with you. Do you feel soiled, like when you and a pro-pedo agree?

This so-called reform is not a Trumpism. It is another manifestation of the long-standing Republican Party's intention to financially hamstring the Federal government. By including increases in military spending, the combination makes it harder to fund social programs. They know they cannot stay in power indefinitely, but they can leave Democrats in the politically unenviable position of raising taxes. In the mean time Vice President Pence says prayer is more important than gun-control. The "Republicans" are not so much a political party, as a cabal.

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:

This so-called reform is not a Trumpism. It is another manifestation of the long-standing Republican Party's intention to financially hamstring the Federal government. By including increases in military spending, the combination makes it harder to fund social programs. They know they cannot stay in power indefinitely, but they can leave Democrats in the politically unenviable position of raising taxes. In the mean time Vice President Pence says prayer is more important than gun-control. The "Republicans" are not so much a political party, as a cabal.

I think you are being generous. the 21st century Republicans are more of a neo-fascist, racist, sexist infection in public life. Our own Liberal party is right wing but so far left of the GOp they have more in common with the Democrats.

issuevoter wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:

This so-called reform is not a Trumpism. It is another manifestation of the long-standing Republican Party's intention to financially hamstring the Federal government. By including increases in military spending, the combination makes it harder to fund social programs. They know they cannot stay in power indefinitely, but they can leave Democrats in the politically unenviable position of raising taxes. In the mean time Vice President Pence says prayer is more important than gun-control. The "Republicans" are not so much a political party, as a cabal.

Good points, Issue, but therein lies the problem. The Democrats can't raise taxes once in. Not only do many of their own members share a belief in small government, tax rises are politically impossible - or at least, that's the thinking.

There will also be a significant number of Republicans in any future government. They'll probably keep Congress. Big business will rally behind a corporate tax cut like this. Imagine Rupert Murdoch not doing everything in his power to keep a 15% cut in his tax.

Whatever tax cuts end up being legislated, they won't be put back up. Humpty Dumpty can never be put back together again.

Trump - and especially Bannon - know this. It is, after all, their message. Bannon calls it a revolution.