Who's behind the Safe School videos? The concerned mums' political connections

Marijke Rancie peers intently into the camera and calls on Victorian parents to "get really angry".

Her outrage is directed at Safe Schools, a program the Melbourne mother claims is trying to "erase gender", expose children to dildos in the classroom, and teach them how to masturbate using household items.

"I kid you not, the rumours about this program are 100 per cent true – this program sexualises children!" Rancie declares, in a 14-minute video that has so far been viewed online more than 4 million times.

"Safe Schools is teaching your children anal sex and anal sex positions. It's teaching them STIs like it's no big deal. The concept is hyper, hyper-sexual. I'm not OK with that. This is grooming."

Rancie's claims have been disputed by the Victorian Education Department but if clicks are anything to go by, there's no doubt her video has struck a chord since it was uploaded on her Facebook page "Politicalpostingmamma", and later on an anti-Safe Schools website called You're Teaching Our Children What.

But why does this supposedly parent-driven website have the same server and registrar as the Australian Christian Lobby? Why has there been a sudden resurgence in campaigning activity against Safe Schools in recent months: from travelling roadshows and viral posts, to angry letters to principals and politicians?

And should Rancie have disclosed on the video that she's a Liberal Party member, part of growing network of so-called "mumma warriors" who are waging what critics claim is essentially a right-wing political war dressed up as a "grassroots" movement?

In the corridors of power at Spring Street, in the suburban branches of Liberal heartland, and in the meeting rooms of the party's Exhibition Street headquarters, a stoush over the party's internal culture has been brewing for months.

At its centre is Marcus Bastiaan, the charismatic 27-year-old who who has made it his mission to re-energise the Liberals' conservative base through a membership drive targeting everyone from Mormons and Evangelical Christians to Probus and ethnic community groups. Safe Schools, according to one Bastiaan ally, has been "a good recruitment tool".

Rancie, a born again Mormon, signed up to the party 17 months ago, one of many recent converts to the Liberal cause. Joining her on the new frontline are several others with links to the party or the religious right. This includes teacher Moira Deeming, a former Liberal candidate; former councillor Christine Stow, who recently ran a Safe Schools "information session"; and Melbourne mother Cella White, whose story about pulling her son out of Frankston High School in protest of Safe Schools has been heavily promoted by the ACL.

Another Liberal member, Vikki Fitzgerald, was also behind a leaflet distributed in Education Minister James Merlino's electorate in May, purporting to be from a group of concerned constituents, going by the name of the Parents Speaking Out Group.

Facebook posts show a number of the women campaigning in Melbourne's east for federal MP Michael Sukkar, a staunch conservative who recently headlined an anti-Safe Schools forum for the Chinese community at the Liberal Party's head office.

The event, also attended by state president Michael Kroger, was advertised in Chinese media groups, and included a flyer falsely claiming that Safe Schools "educates children by teaching them to act like homosexuals and bisexuals, so that they will conform to new age ideas of gender".

This session was just one of many. Another recently took place at the Cranbourne Golf Club, featuring right-wing upper house MP Inga Peulich as a key speaker. A similar forum was held in late June at the Bendigo Baptist Church, attended by Bastiaan, his pro-life wife Stephanie, and conservative physician Ivan Stratov.

Stratov used his keynote speech to lash Safe Schools, as well as abortion, euthanasia, and marriage equality. The Bastiaans used the event to garner support for the party more broadly.

In a statement to Fairfax Media, Rancie says she had never been interested in joining a political party "until Safe Schools invaded my kids", and that she posted her video "out of sheer frustration" because no one seemed to know what it was really about.

"[It's] a Trojan horse for transgender activism and gender theory and not really an anti-bullying program at all," she says. "The feedback has been incredibly supportive, apart from a few activists who are childless and seem to have a clear agenda."

But others say the latest campaign isn't just politically motivated and filled with homophobic falsehoods, it's also doing "untold damage" to LGBTI children and their families, already reeling from the federal debate over marriage equality.

"We are really hurting," said Jo Hirst, the mother of a transgender child and the author of the children's book The Gender Fairy.

"The voices of these groups are loud and insistent, but what they say is factually incorrect. I understand that the parents of Australia have a lot of voting power. But when you know 50 per cent of transgender children will attempt suicide if not supported, can you ethically justify spreading misinformation? Is a vote worth a child's life?"

Meanwhile, schools have also found themselves in the firing line. Frankston High School principal John Albiston receives a steady stream of emails from people opposed to the program, including members of the Australian Christian Lobby and Rise Up Australia.

The emails started when Cella White withdrew her 14-year-old son from Frankston High last year and publicly claimed that a teacher had told him that he could wear a dress to school.

Mr Albiston denies this. He says that if he had overhauled the school's uniform policy he would have received complaints from other parents.

"We were under attack," he explains. The school's phone lines were inundated with angry callers – none of whom had a connection to the school. "It seems to be more of an adult issue. It's not an issue for kids."

Back at the Liberal Party, the battle continues. As one insider explained this week, Safe Schools has become a powerful drawcard in an increasingly fickle political climate, where people are more likely to join parties on a single issue rather than on brand loyalty.

But while the program may be bringing new members, it is also causing some internal rifts. Twelve months after Guy announced he would replace Safe Schools with a "genuine anti-bullying alternative", some Liberals are angered there has been no policy work done. Others accuse him of being soft on these issues.

The matter has become such a sensitive topic within sections of the party that a new Liberal Pride group – headed by federal Minister Christopher Pyne's adviser, Rory Grant – recently met with state education spokesman Nick Wakeling to raise concerns about the lack of policy direction. As one well-placed source told Fairfax Media after the meeting: "The last thing we want to see is LGBTI students being placed at risk."

As for Rancie and her "mumma warriors", they're not going anywhere. Deeming says LGBTQI students had been "betrayed" by the makers of Safe Schools, "who have clearly used it as a ruse to sneak erotic sexualised content that has nothing to do with bullying into the classroom."

Rancie agrees. "The deception from the department of education is completely despicable," she says, "and I look forward to exposing them more."

True or False?

Marijke: "Safe Schools is teaching your children anal sex and anal sex positions."

Department: Safe Schools is not a sex education program, nor does it teach sexual practices.

Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders."

Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this.

Marijke: "Is not and never was an anti-bullying program."

Department: It is a sad reality that LGBTI young people are more likely to be bullied at school than elsewhere and this has a major impact on their educational outcomes. Safe Schools provides information and resources to schools to raise understanding and awareness of sexual and gender diversity.

Marijke: "His friends in year 8 had come out and told him that a teacher had shown him a dildo."

Department: The Department of Education and Training provides evidence-based information, written resources and professional learning for school staff to use as they see fit to support schools to prevent, and respond to, discrimination against LGBTI students. These resources do not include props.


http://amp.theage.com.au/victoria/whos-behind-the-safe-school-videos-the-concerned-mums-political-connections-20170811-gxukuu.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu_hA3wA04U

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 9:35pm:

Meanwhile, schools have also found themselves in the firing line. Frankston High School principal John Albiston receives a steady stream of emails from people opposed to the program, including members of the Australian Christian Lobby and Rise Up Australia. The emails started when Cella White withdrew her 14-year-old son from Frankston High last year and publicly claimed that a teacher had told him that he could wear a dress to school. Mr Albiston denies this. He says that if he had overhauled the school's uniform policy he would have received complaints from other parents. "We were under attack," he explains. The school's phone lines were inundated with angry callers – none of whom had a connection to the school. "It seems to be more of an adult issue. It's not an issue for kids." Back at the Liberal Party, the battle continues. As one insider explained this week, Safe Schools has become a powerful drawcard in an increasingly fickle political climate, where people are more likely to join parties on a single issue rather than on brand loyalty. But while the program may be bringing new members, it is also causing some internal rifts. Twelve months after Guy announced he would replace Safe Schools with a "genuine anti-bullying alternative", some Liberals are angered there has been no policy work done. Others accuse him of being soft on these issues. The matter has become such a sensitive topic within sections of the party that a new Liberal Pride group – headed by federal Minister Christopher Pyne's adviser, Rory Grant – recently met with state education spokesman Nick Wakeling to raise concerns about the lack of policy direction. As one well-placed source told Fairfax Media after the meeting: "The last thing we want to see is LGBTI students being placed at risk." As for Rancie and her "mumma warriors", they're not going anywhere. Deeming says LGBTQI students had been "betrayed" by the makers of Safe Schools, "who have clearly used it as a ruse to sneak erotic sexualised content that has nothing to do with bullying into the classroom." Rancie agrees. "The deception from the department of education is completely despicable," she says, "and I look forward to exposing them more." True or False? Marijke: "Safe Schools is teaching your children anal sex and anal sex positions." Department: Safe Schools is not a sex education program, nor does it teach sexual practices. Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Marijke: "Is not and never was an anti-bullying program." Department: It is a sad reality that LGBTI young people are more likely to be bullied at school than elsewhere and this has a major impact on their educational outcomes. Safe Schools provides information and resources to schools to raise understanding and awareness of sexual and gender diversity. Marijke: "His friends in year 8 had come out and told him that a teacher had shown him a dildo." Department: The Department of Education and Training provides evidence-based information, written resources and professional learning for school staff to use as they see fit to support schools to prevent, and respond to, discrimination against LGBTI students. These resources do not include props. http://amp.theage.com.au/victoria/whos-behind-the-safe-school-videos-the-concerned-mums-political-connections-20170811-gxukuu.html

Perhaps they should have them filmed and shown to parents then. Let the evidence be shown and let parents make up their minds.

Anything to do with alphabet soup sexuality should be taught at home, as with any sexuality. School is for Math, Science, English, History.
Bullying? Just come down on it no matter the reason or send your kids off to martial arts of some description that gives them the confidence to say enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbRAaziPEI

"Who's behind the Safe School videos?"

Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity?

https://www.facebook.com/familyvoiceaustralia/videos/778255198941671/

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:33pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 9:35pm: Meanwhile, schools have also found themselves in the firing line. Frankston High School principal John Albiston receives a steady stream of emails from people opposed to the program, including members of the Australian Christian Lobby and Rise Up Australia. The emails started when Cella White withdrew her 14-year-old son from Frankston High last year and publicly claimed that a teacher had told him that he could wear a dress to school. Mr Albiston denies this. He says that if he had overhauled the school's uniform policy he would have received complaints from other parents. "We were under attack," he explains. The school's phone lines were inundated with angry callers – none of whom had a connection to the school. "It seems to be more of an adult issue. It's not an issue for kids." Back at the Liberal Party, the battle continues. As one insider explained this week, Safe Schools has become a powerful drawcard in an increasingly fickle political climate, where people are more likely to join parties on a single issue rather than on brand loyalty. But while the program may be bringing new members, it is also causing some internal rifts. Twelve months after Guy announced he would replace Safe Schools with a "genuine anti-bullying alternative", some Liberals are angered there has been no policy work done. Others accuse him of being soft on these issues. The matter has become such a sensitive topic within sections of the party that a new Liberal Pride group – headed by federal Minister Christopher Pyne's adviser, Rory Grant – recently met with state education spokesman Nick Wakeling to raise concerns about the lack of policy direction. As one well-placed source told Fairfax Media after the meeting: "The last thing we want to see is LGBTI students being placed at risk." As for Rancie and her "mumma warriors", they're not going anywhere. Deeming says LGBTQI students had been "betrayed" by the makers of Safe Schools, "who have clearly used it as a ruse to sneak erotic sexualised content that has nothing to do with bullying into the classroom." Rancie agrees. "The deception from the department of education is completely despicable," she says, "and I look forward to exposing them more." True or False? Marijke: "Safe Schools is teaching your children anal sex and anal sex positions." Department: Safe Schools is not a sex education program, nor does it teach sexual practices. Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Marijke: "Is not and never was an anti-bullying program." Department: It is a sad reality that LGBTI young people are more likely to be bullied at school than elsewhere and this has a major impact on their educational outcomes. Safe Schools provides information and resources to schools to raise understanding and awareness of sexual and gender diversity. Marijke: "His friends in year 8 had come out and told him that a teacher had shown him a dildo." Department: The Department of Education and Training provides evidence-based information, written resources and professional learning for school staff to use as they see fit to support schools to prevent, and respond to, discrimination against LGBTI students. These resources do not include props. http://amp.theage.com.au/victoria/whos-behind-the-safe-school-videos-the-concerned-mums-political-connections-20170811-gxukuu.html Perhaps they should have them filmed and shown to parents then. Let the evidence be shown and let parents make up their minds. Anything to do with alphabet soup sexuality should be taught at home, as with any sexuality. School is for Math, Science, English, History. Bullying? Just come down on it no matter the reason or send your kids off to martial arts of some description that gives them the confidence to say enough.

Will you print this for your grandkids?

---

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 9:35pm:

Frankston High School principal John Albiston receives a steady stream of emails from people opposed to the program, including members of the Australian Christian Lobby and Rise Up Australia.

The usual suspects.

::)

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:42pm:

"Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity?

I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core should be under the same opt in/out. I would rather my kid spend his time in the library than sit in in gender diversity studies. No need for it.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:45pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 9:35pm: Frankston High School principal John Albiston receives a steady stream of emails from people opposed to the program, including members of the Australian Christian Lobby and Rise Up Australia. The usual suspects. ::)

I liked this bit particularly:

"At its centre is Marcus Bastiaan, the charismatic 27-year-old who who has made it his mission to re-energise the Liberals' conservative base through a membership drive targeting everyone from Mormons and Evangelical Christians to Probus and ethnic community groups. Safe Schools, according to one Bastiaan ally, has been "a good recruitment tool"."

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:48pm:

lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core ...

Define "core".

Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are.

My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark.

Define "core".

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:54pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:48pm: lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core ... Define "core".

I suspect one of your pedantic setups but... Schools should be aimed at Math, Science, Language, History.

This is what we know, this is how we know, these are the people that showed us, stand on the shoulders of these giants! Don't be a whiny crossdresser with an attitude, be a Turing, not a cry baby.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:54pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:48pm: lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core ... Define "core". I suspect one of your pedantic setups but... Schools should be aimed at Math, Science, Language, History.

I gather you mean 'Maths'.

Or, do you call statistics 'Stat'?

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:54pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:48pm: lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core ... Define "core". I suspect one of your pedantic setups but... Schools should be aimed at Math, Science, Language, History.

x2............................. 8-)

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:03pm:

I gather you mean 'Maths'.

Both are correct. ;)

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark.

No. I think much of school is about socialisation.

I want my kids to learn life skills at school.

I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially.

For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them.

And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:03pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:01pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:54pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:48pm: lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core ... Define "core". I suspect one of your pedantic setups but... Schools should be aimed at Math, Science, Language, History. I gather you mean 'Maths'. Or, do you call statistics 'Stat'?

I think you really showed me tonight Greg. ::)

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:03pm: I gather you mean 'Maths'. Both are correct. ;)

Do you call statistics 'Stat'?

Does anyone?

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:06pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:03pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:01pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:54pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:48pm: lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core ... Define "core". I suspect one of your pedantic setups but... Schools should be aimed at Math, Science, Language, History. I gather you mean 'Maths'. Or, do you call statistics 'Stat'? I think you really showed me tonight Greg. ::)

Why do you say 'math'?

Do you think it's trendy to sound American?

And, you didn't answer: do you call statistics 'stat'?

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:06pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes?

School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it.
Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, to grey haired children, their elders. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:10pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:06pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes? School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, grey haired. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions.

I strongly disagree. Children should learn how to navigate all sorts of different kinds of people.

How else to test the values you and the tribe instil in them so they know they mean something and can represent them?

Or you pick a really good school and it comes with a tribe.

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:13pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:06pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes? School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, grey haired. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. I strongly disagree. Children should learn how to navigate all sorts of different kinds of people. How else to test the values you and the tribe instil in them so they know they mean something and can represent them? Or you pick a really good school and it comes with a tribe.

I thought you would. My statements are based on what I have done, how humans lived in the past, how things were handed down.

My children were never sent off, they were invited to the adults table when we were taking crap, to put their two bob in. They were never excluded, they could say what they wanted and though they did at times, they mostly listened. It happened at home.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:17pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:13pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:06pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes? School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, grey haired. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. I strongly disagree. Children should learn how to navigate all sorts of different kinds of people. How else to test the values you and the tribe instil in them so they know they mean something and can represent them? Or you pick a really good school and it comes with a tribe. I thought you would. My statements are based on what I have done, how humans lived in the past, how things were handed down. My children were never sent off, they were invited to the adults table when we were taking crap, to put their two bob in. They were never excluded, they could say what they wanted and though they did at times, they mostly listened.

Same with my kids. Always treated with the same respect shown any adult and always included and taken everywhere.

But i can't sing the praises of the school i picked for my kids enough.

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:20pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:17pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:13pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:06pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes? School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, grey haired. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. I strongly disagree. Children should learn how to navigate all sorts of different kinds of people. How else to test the values you and the tribe instil in them so they know they mean something and can represent them? Or you pick a really good school and it comes with a tribe. I thought you would. My statements are based on what I have done, how humans lived in the past, how things were handed down. My children were never sent off, they were invited to the adults table when we were taking crap, to put their two bob in. They were never excluded, they could say what they wanted and though they did at times, they mostly listened. Same with my kids. Always treated with the same respect shown any adult and always included and taken everywhere. But i can't sing the praises of the school i picked for my kids enough.

Then why do you think it's the schools job? Our network of friends and their influence in discussions the kids sat in on carried much more weight that what was taught at school, just as I disabused them of bible crap when hey brought it home.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:24pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:20pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:17pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:13pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:06pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes? School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, grey haired. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. I strongly disagree. Children should learn how to navigate all sorts of different kinds of people. How else to test the values you and the tribe instil in them so they know they mean something and can represent them? Or you pick a really good school and it comes with a tribe. I thought you would. My statements are based on what I have done, how humans lived in the past, how things were handed down. My children were never sent off, they were invited to the adults table when we were taking crap, to put their two bob in. They were never excluded, they could say what they wanted and though they did at times, they mostly listened. Same with my kids. Always treated with the same respect shown any adult and always included and taken everywhere. But i can't sing the praises of the school i picked for my kids enough. Then why do you think it's the schools job? Our network of friends and their influence in discussions the kids sat in on carried much more weight that what was taught at school, just as I disabused them of bible crap when hey brought it home.

I didn't say it was the school's job.

But are you seriously placing society's overall health in the hands of parents alone? Do you know how much crap is out there? Not to mention that a concerted effort needs to be put in regards to the  internet .. for a number of reasons.

Half the time, teachers are correcting bad information the kids have picked up along the way.

what about protection from bullies on the internet?????


anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance???

:( :( :(

wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean..

safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::)

well we all live in hope dont we?...

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:24pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:20pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:17pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:13pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:06pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:58pm: Actually, for the people that think anything outside of the core subjects should be taught at school, consider why you hold those opinions and let us know what/why they are. My kids went to a christian school, had crap put in their heads, I flushed it when they came home. The home will always override what is taught in school. The home is where "non core" subjects find their mark. No. I think much of school is about socialisation. I want my kids to learn life skills at school. I will work at home with my kids through everything they have been introduced to. Be that academically or socially. For instance, i think they should teach you how to do a tax return at school ... navigate bureaucracy ... read contracts. These are things that bugger people up f their parents don't show them. And sex-ed has always been part of schools. Otherwise they're going to have some big questions in biology, yes? School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, grey haired. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. I strongly disagree. Children should learn how to navigate all sorts of different kinds of people. How else to test the values you and the tribe instil in them so they know they mean something and can represent them? Or you pick a really good school and it comes with a tribe. I thought you would. My statements are based on what I have done, how humans lived in the past, how things were handed down. My children were never sent off, they were invited to the adults table when we were taking crap, to put their two bob in. They were never excluded, they could say what they wanted and though they did at times, they mostly listened. Same with my kids. Always treated with the same respect shown any adult and always included and taken everywhere. But i can't sing the praises of the school i picked for my kids enough. Then why do you think it's the schools job? Our network of friends and their influence in discussions the kids sat in on carried much more weight that what was taught at school, just as I disabused them of bible crap when hey brought it home. I didn't say it was the school's job. But are you seriously placing society's overall health in the hands of parents alone? Do you know how much crap is out there? Not to mention that a concerted effort needs to be put in regards to the  internet .. for a number of reasons. Half the time, teachers are correcting bad information the kids have picked up along the way.

I'm placing what kids will learn, no matter what the school teaches, in parents hands. If you can understand that, then what is taught at school is irrelevant. Hence my position of teaching what is factual at school and leaving the rest of the social crap to the tribe.

If you want to change the tribe, don't do it in school.

cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:31pm:

what about protection from bullies on the internet????? anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance??? :( :( :( wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean.. safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::) well we all live in hope dont we?...

We do Cods. But it's interesting how we are expecting our kids to behave better than us.

Another reason why such lessons need be taught to school children? For fear they are not learning how to speak to and about people with respect from their parents?

How many little eyes peering over shoulders while parents and grandparents behave appallingly on social media?

cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:31pm:

what about protection from bullies on the internet????? anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance??? :( :( :( wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean.. safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::) well we all live in hope dont we?...

Grow a set? And, no, set is not me.

Give me a boy at the age of five and he is mine forever....... old church saying...

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:35pm:

I'm placing what kids will learn, no matter what the school teaches, in parents hands. If you can understand that, then what is taught at school is irrelevant. Hence my position of teaching what is factual at school and leaving the rest of the social crap to the tribe. If you want to change the tribe, don't do it in school.

I see it differently. I see it as school validating most of what i teach my kids and challenging them to hold what i have taught them up against differing perspectives when they arise.

I have faith in what i have taught my kids.

I hear you do too.

Yet not all parents are as you and i, Setanta. These kids have to learn. Knowledge never hurts. More good comes out of education than harm.

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:36pm:

cods wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:31pm: what about protection from bullies on the internet????? anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance??? :( :( :( wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean.. safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::) well we all live in hope dont we?... We do Cods. But it's interesting how we are expecting our kids to behave better than us. Another reason why such lessons need be taught to school children? For fear they are not learning how to speak to and about people with respect from their parents? How many little eyes peering over shoulders while parents and grandparents behave appallingly on social media?

We teach out kids to behave better than us, at home. My youngest son is a far better man than I although I could kick his arse. He is a fa more grounded person than I, he does not get as angry as I, I have told him why things influence me the way they do, try to explain my "problems". He's grown up with me, he knows them, the understanding comes with knowing the other. This is not something that can be taught.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:45pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:36pm: cods wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:31pm: what about protection from bullies on the internet????? anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance??? :( :( :( wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean.. safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::) well we all live in hope dont we?... We do Cods. But it's interesting how we are expecting our kids to behave better than us. Another reason why such lessons need be taught to school children? For fear they are not learning how to speak to and about people with respect from their parents? How many little eyes peering over shoulders while parents and grandparents behave appallingly on social media? We teach out kids to behave better than us, at home. My youngest son is a far better man than I although I could kick his arse. He is a fa more grounded person than I, he does not get as angry as I, I have told him why things influence me the way they do, try to explain my "problems". He's grown up with me, he knows them, the understanding comes with knowing the other. This is not something that can be taught.

I would say the same about my son... he just always automatically does 'the right thing'... it's in the genes a lot.. and he was raised much as you say yours were, as was his sister... always part of the team, but his dad has a lot to deal with.  At least his kids adore me as grampa, without judgement.

I blame Islam.

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:47pm:

I blame Islam.

.. and the feminists and their running dogs..... for raising the level of violence and intolerance within society.....

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:47pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:45pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:36pm: cods wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:31pm: what about protection from bullies on the internet????? anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance??? :( :( :( wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean.. safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::) well we all live in hope dont we?... We do Cods. But it's interesting how we are expecting our kids to behave better than us. Another reason why such lessons need be taught to school children? For fear they are not learning how to speak to and about people with respect from their parents? How many little eyes peering over shoulders while parents and grandparents behave appallingly on social media? We teach out kids to behave better than us, at home. My youngest son is a far better man than I although I could kick his arse. He is a fa more grounded person than I, he does not get as angry as I, I have told him why things influence me the way they do, try to explain my "problems". He's grown up with me, he knows them, the understanding comes with knowing the other. This is not something that can be taught. I would say the same about my son... he just always automatically does 'the right thing'... it's in the genes a lot.. and he was raised much as you say yours were, as was his sister... always part of the team, but his dad has a lot to deal with.  At least his kids adore me as grampa, without judgement.

Grap! What are you doing in my genes? ;D

I had middle son ask me about a business decision, "it would be so much cheaper", my answer was what have I taught you.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:48pm:

lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? I honestly have no idea but when I was a parent of kids at a state school I removed them from religious education. Every subject that is not core should be under the same opt in/out. I would rather my kid spend his time in the library than sit in in gender diversity studies. No need for it.

Yes the same Roz Ward that admitted it wasn't about bullying but changing society.

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:45pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:36pm: cods wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:31pm: what about protection from bullies on the internet????? anyone got any ideas on that... safe political forums for instance??? :( :( :( wouldnt it be nice to be able to come to a place.. lets say like....ozpol   and not be bullied by a certain class of people.. wouldnt it be nice to think those who are vulnerable had people they could turn too in the hope of putting a stop to it.... the bullying I mean.. safe schools   I am sure making a law will stop people being nasty.. ::) ::) well we all live in hope dont we?... We do Cods. But it's interesting how we are expecting our kids to behave better than us. Another reason why such lessons need be taught to school children? For fear they are not learning how to speak to and about people with respect from their parents? How many little eyes peering over shoulders while parents and grandparents behave appallingly on social media? We teach out kids to behave better than us, at home. My youngest son is a far better man than I although I could kick his arse. He is a fa more grounded person than I, he does not get as angry as I, I have told him why things influence me the way they do, try to explain my "problems". He's grown up with me, he knows them, the understanding comes with knowing the other. This is not something that can be taught.

as an adult   anger is something only YOU can get over....even you must see that.....children mostly learn by example... and of course lots of praise ..dont forget the kids today have so much temptation to deal with..and parenting isnt anythin g like it used to be..so many children are  put into childcare soon after they are born   dont tell me thats a good thing...

.the schools in Canberra now have fences and gates all round them  [ a sign of the times]... but I think it was also to stop those dropping their kids off before any adults arrived.....some parents have no shame....

lee wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:42pm:

"Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? https://www.facebook.com/familyvoiceaustralia/videos/778255198941671/

I only have one question how did Roz Ward get to be the founder of this program.......?

Just by looking at her you can tell she is a troubled individual.

The education department needs an overhaul.


Quote:

Leaked video: Safe Schools is "not about stopping bullying"! Co-founder Roz Ward had admitted the program is actually about supporting gender and sexual diversity - not anti-bullying. Please share this video. We must protect our kids from this dangerous Marxist ideology!

Ajax wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:41am:

lee wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm: "Who's behind the Safe School videos?" Isn't it Roz Ward who has admitted it wasn't about anti-bullying but about supporting gender and sexual diversity? https://www.facebook.com/familyvoiceaustralia/videos/778255198941671/ I only have one question how did Roz Ward get to be the founder of this program.......? Just by looking at her you can tell she is a troubled individual. The education department needs an overhaul. Quote: Leaked video: Safe Schools is "not about stopping bullying"! Co-founder Roz Ward had admitted the program is actually about supporting gender and sexual diversity - not anti-bullying. Please share this video. We must protect our kids from this dangerous Marxist ideology!

Thanks for that post. It's hard to believe that she was allowed to instigate such a narrowly focused program in the guise of a wider bullying program.

mothra wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 10:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:45pm: mothra wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 9:35pm: Frankston High School principal John Albiston receives a steady stream of emails from people opposed to the program, including members of the Australian Christian Lobby and Rise Up Australia. The usual suspects. ::) I liked this bit particularly: "At its centre is Marcus Bastiaan, the charismatic 27-year-old who who has made it his mission to re-energise the Liberals' conservative base through a membership drive targeting everyone from Mormons and Evangelical Christians to Probus and ethnic community groups. Safe Schools, according to one Bastiaan ally, has been "a good recruitment tool"."

Is that Matty?

Setanta wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 11:10pm:

School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, to grey haired children, their elders. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions.

Disagree ..... school is a large part of that tribe. We tend to congregate with people most like us, limiting kids exposure to your circle of family and friends limits their interactions. It doesn't teach them how to deal with people who are 'different', confrontational, people they don't like.

An old psychology teacher once told me he preferred his kids socialise with the wrong crowd, than no crowd.

John Smith wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 10:29am:

Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, to grey haired children, their elders. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. Disagree ..... school is a large part of that tribe. We tend to congregate with people most like us, limiting kids exposure to your circle of family and friends limits their interactions. It doesn't teach them how to deal with people who are 'different', confrontational, people they don't like. An old psychology teacher once told me he preferred his kids socialise with the wrong crowd, than no crowd.

And I prefer mine to socialise with the right crowd rather than the wrong. I can see a heirarchy forming here.

In a tribe, the kids learn and interact with all ages, not just their peers. Thinking that kids should spend all/most of their time with their peers is just wrong. They need to associate with their whole tribe not their peers to get a well rounded view of how to behave.

But they need peers too.

And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:32pm:

But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with.

And protecting them from people who may disagree with them; helps them how?

lee wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:35pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:32pm: But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with. And protecting them from people who may disagree with them; helps them how?

I don't know why you are asking me that question.

I have given no indication that i think children should be protected from those who may disagree with them.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:32pm:

But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with.

Never said they didn't need peers, the best way for them to learn how to "get along" is to watch adults that can do it. All kids look to those older than them to learn how to behave, their mums and dads, older siblings, cousins, their family, their tribe.

Sticking a bunch of kids of the same age together without the other members of the tribe to lead them will lead to mayhem.

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:37pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:32pm: But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with. Never said they didn't need peers, the best way for them to learn how to "get along" is to watch adults that can do it. All kids look to those older than them to learn how to behave, their mums and dads, older siblings, cousins, their family, their tribe. Sticking a bunch of kids of the same age together without the other members of the tribe to lead them will lead to mayhem.

Who said there should be no tribe to guide them?

Anyway, kids need to test themselves out and all they have learnt against the society they will be living in.

If you've done your job as a parent, you have nothing to fear from a good school and much to gain.'

If you haven't done your job as a parent, then the school is even more crucial.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:40pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:37pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:32pm: But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with. Never said they didn't need peers, the best way for them to learn how to "get along" is to watch adults that can do it. All kids look to those older than them to learn how to behave, their mums and dads, older siblings, cousins, their family, their tribe. Sticking a bunch of kids of the same age together without the other members of the tribe to lead them will lead to mayhem. Who said there should be no tribe to guide them? Anyway, kids need to test themselves out and all they have learnt against the society they will be living in. If you've done your job as a parent, you have nothing to fear from a good school and much to gain.' If you haven't done your job as a parent, then the school is even more crucial.

Are we talking across each other? ;D

If you have done your job as a parent, these programs are pointless, if you haven't, they are still pointless as what happens in the family will override what is taught at school. Better school be left for academic achievement than social engineering.

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:45pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:40pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:37pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:32pm: But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with. Never said they didn't need peers, the best way for them to learn how to "get along" is to watch adults that can do it. All kids look to those older than them to learn how to behave, their mums and dads, older siblings, cousins, their family, their tribe. Sticking a bunch of kids of the same age together without the other members of the tribe to lead them will lead to mayhem. Who said there should be no tribe to guide them? Anyway, kids need to test themselves out and all they have learnt against the society they will be living in. If you've done your job as a parent, you have nothing to fear from a good school and much to gain.' If you haven't done your job as a parent, then the school is even more crucial. Are we talking across each other? ;D If you have done your job as a parent, these programs are pointless, if you haven't, they are still pointless as what happens in the family will override what is taught at school. Better school be left for academic achievement than social engineering.

Social engineering? Now we're getting to the pointy end.

Your criticismisn't so much that they are being taught .. it is that you think what they are being taught is social engineering?

Do you not think there should be sex ed at school?

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:48pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:45pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:40pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:37pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:32pm: But they need peers too. And they need to learn to deal with people they don't agree with or get along with. Never said they didn't need peers, the best way for them to learn how to "get along" is to watch adults that can do it. All kids look to those older than them to learn how to behave, their mums and dads, older siblings, cousins, their family, their tribe. Sticking a bunch of kids of the same age together without the other members of the tribe to lead them will lead to mayhem. Who said there should be no tribe to guide them? Anyway, kids need to test themselves out and all they have learnt against the society they will be living in. If you've done your job as a parent, you have nothing to fear from a good school and much to gain.' If you haven't done your job as a parent, then the school is even more crucial. Are we talking across each other? ;D If you have done your job as a parent, these programs are pointless, if you haven't, they are still pointless as what happens in the family will override what is taught at school. Better school be left for academic achievement than social engineering. Social engineering? Now we're getting to the pointy end. Your criticismisn't so much that they are being taught .. it is that you think what they are being taught is social engineering? Do you not think there should be sex ed at school?

It is social engineering and it will be undone at home if the parents don't like it, just as religion was undone at home in my family even though all the kids spent a good deal of time at a Christian Community School and none of them are believers.

Biology is a part of science, so yes.

What part of the safe schools program do you think is social engineering, Setanta?

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:54pm:

What part of the safe schools program do you think is social engineering, Setanta?

Telling kids what to believe is social engineering, just as teaching them religion is. Are there 63 genders, or 62 other genders they should not pick on? Should they just be told don't pick on or bully "people"? Do kids need "gender studies" to understand this?

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:59pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:54pm: What part of the safe schools program do you think is social engineering, Setanta? Telling kids what to believe is social engineering, just as teaching them religion is. Are there 63 genders, or 62 other genders they should not pick on? Should they just be told don't pick on or bully "people"? Do kids need "gender studies" to understand this?

Did you read the OP? Nowhere in the Safe Schools program do they talk about 63 genders.

Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders."

Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:02pm:

Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this.

Quote:

Speaking at a Victoria University event organised for Pride Week last month, Ms Ward took aim at conservative politicians, ­academics and the Murdoch press (which includes The Aust­ralian), blaming them for the controversy over sexual and gender diversity program.

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/korean/en/content/australian-safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag

Quote:

The architect behind a contentious sexual diversity program set to become mandatory across all Victorian schools is an outspoken hard-left warrior who has publicly denounced Immigration Minister Peter Dutton as a sexist prick.

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/sites/sbs.com.au.yourlanguage/files/styles/body_image/public/podcasts//site_197_Korean_477155.JPG

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Quote: Speaking at a Victoria University event organised for Pride Week last month, Ms Ward took aim at conservative politicians, ­academics and the Murdoch press (which includes The Aust­ralian), blaming them for the controversy over sexual and gender diversity program. http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/korean/en/content/australian-safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag [quote]The architect behind a contentious sexual diversity program set to become mandatory across all Victorian schools is an outspoken hard-left warrior who has publicly denounced Immigration Minister Peter Dutton as a sexist prick.

[/quote]

Yes. And?

Help me, i'm lost.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:11pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:05pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Quote: Speaking at a Victoria University event organised for Pride Week last month, Ms Ward took aim at conservative politicians, ­academics and the Murdoch press (which includes The Aust­ralian), blaming them for the controversy over sexual and gender diversity program. http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/korean/en/content/australian-safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag [quote]The architect behind a contentious sexual diversity program set to become mandatory across all Victorian schools is an outspoken hard-left warrior who has publicly denounced Immigration Minister Peter Dutton as a sexist prick.

Yes. And?

Help me, i'm lost.
[/quote]

It seems so.
What gender diversity do you think they mean and why is it taught in school?

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:15pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:11pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:05pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Quote: Speaking at a Victoria University event organised for Pride Week last month, Ms Ward took aim at conservative politicians, ­academics and the Murdoch press (which includes The Aust­ralian), blaming them for the controversy over sexual and gender diversity program. http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/korean/en/content/australian-safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag [quote]The architect behind a contentious sexual diversity program set to become mandatory across all Victorian schools is an outspoken hard-left warrior who has publicly denounced Immigration Minister Peter Dutton as a sexist prick. Yes. And? Help me, i'm lost.

It seems so.
What gender diversity do you think they mean and why is it taught in school?

[/quote]


That the binary of masculine and feminine doesn't apply to everyone and more and more people in society at large are evidencing that. They may even feels that themselves .. or know someone who does.

It's out there. No unringing that bell.

I've got kids in the school system currently. They're talking about this.

So what to do?

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:19pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:15pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:11pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:05pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Quote: Speaking at a Victoria University event organised for Pride Week last month, Ms Ward took aim at conservative politicians, ­academics and the Murdoch press (which includes The Aust­ralian), blaming them for the controversy over sexual and gender diversity program. http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/korean/en/content/australian-safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag [quote]The architect behind a contentious sexual diversity program set to become mandatory across all Victorian schools is an outspoken hard-left warrior who has publicly denounced Immigration Minister Peter Dutton as a sexist prick. Yes. And? Help me, i'm lost. It seems so. What gender diversity do you think they mean and why is it taught in school?

That the binary of masculine and feminine doesn't apply to everyone and more and more people in society at large are evidencing that. They may even feels that themselves .. or know someone who does.

It's out there. No unringing that bell.

I've got kids in the school system currently. They're talking about this.

So what to do?[/quote]

Tell them the truth, there are two genders and some people are queer. Don't pick on people.
Not, it's ok to want to be a dolphin, you can be anything you want.

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:22pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:19pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:15pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:11pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:05pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Marijke: "The safe schools program teaches children that there are 63 types of genders." Department: The Safe Schools program does not teach this. Quote: Speaking at a Victoria University event organised for Pride Week last month, Ms Ward took aim at conservative politicians, ­academics and the Murdoch press (which includes The Aust­ralian), blaming them for the controversy over sexual and gender diversity program. http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/korean/en/content/australian-safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag [quote]The architect behind a contentious sexual diversity program set to become mandatory across all Victorian schools is an outspoken hard-left warrior who has publicly denounced Immigration Minister Peter Dutton as a sexist prick. Yes. And? Help me, i'm lost. It seems so. What gender diversity do you think they mean and why is it taught in school? That the binary of masculine and feminine doesn't apply to everyone and more and more people in society at large are evidencing that. They may even feels that themselves .. or know someone who does. It's out there. No unringing that bell. I've got kids in the school system currently. They're talking about this. So what to do?

Tell them the truth, there are two genders and some people are queer. Don't pick on people.
Not, it's ok to want to be a dolphin, you can be anything you want.
[/quote]


I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:23pm:

I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth.

I'm reasonable confident the largest percentage of people are hetro from my interactions with them.
Could certainly cut the alphabet sexuality down to H(hetro), B(bi) and Q(queer). Even HQ.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:23pm:

I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth.

Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated? 

rhino wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:30pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?

Why, through sex, Rhino.

Didn't they teach you that in school?

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:27pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. I'm reasonable confident the largest percentage of people are hetro from my interactions with them. Could certainly cut the alphabet sexuality down to H(hetro), B(bi) and Q(queer). Even HQ.

Yes ... but it's not about sexuality .. it's about gender.

rhino wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:30pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?

The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:27pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. I'm reasonable confident the largest percentage of people are hetro from my interactions with them. Could certainly cut the alphabet sexuality down to H(hetro), B(bi) and Q(queer). Even HQ. Yes ... but it's not about sexuality .. it's about gender.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:33pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender.

Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have.

This isn't about sexuality.

This is where you all get it so horribly wrong.

rhino wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:34pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:27pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. I'm reasonable confident the largest percentage of people are hetro from my interactions with them. Could certainly cut the alphabet sexuality down to H(hetro), B(bi) and Q(queer). Even HQ. Yes ... but it's not about sexuality .. it's about gender. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

This is out of your reach, Rhino.

But make yourself comfy and heckle from the peanut gallery.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong.

Gender is not a social construct, it a biological construct.
If you want to test that hypothesis, give a frontal lobotomy to Qs and I'm sure you will see the difference is in the prefrontal cortex(their sense of self) not their DNA.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:36pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:34pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:27pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. I'm reasonable confident the largest percentage of people are hetro from my interactions with them. Could certainly cut the alphabet sexuality down to H(hetro), B(bi) and Q(queer). Even HQ. Yes ... but it's not about sexuality .. it's about gender. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D This is out of your reach, Rhino. But make yourself comfy and heckle from the peanut gallery.

You are always good for a laugh, im sure you do it deliberately, pick a ridiculously facile statement and then try to defend it at all costs. Gender a social construct, Lol. Keep em coming.

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:39pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong. Gender is not a social construct, it a biological construct. If you want to test that hypothesis, give a frontal lobotomy to Qs and I'm sure you will see the difference is in the prefrontal cortex not their DNA.

No. Sexuality is a biological determination. Gender is a social construct.

What do we call little girls and little boys who don't fit their moulds? The ones we don't try to squash back in that is. Or the ones that just won't fit.

Not to be confused with sexuality .. which has nothing to do with children.

I blame the education system. How on earth can anyone claiming to be tertiary educated be so ignorant? And my taxpayer dollars helped fund it, I want a refund.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong.

If its not about sexuality.

Why do tgey concentrate on genitals, dildos and sexual positions.

The majority of the population are NORMAL

A small percentage are queer or to put it bluntly mentally ill.

Yes homosexuality, bisexuality and other deviations are representitive of mental illness.

Just as being sexually attracted to animals, shoes, even mechanical devices.

This is a mental illness and should be treated as such.

Valkie wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:55pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong. If its not about sexuality. Why do tgey concentrate on genitals, dildos and sexual positions. The majority of the population are NORMAL A small percentage are queer or to put it bluntly mentally ill. Yes homosexuality, bisexuality and other deviations are representitive of mental illness. Just as being sexually attracted to animals, shoes, even mechanical devices. This is a mental illness and should be treated as such.

They don't.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:43pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:39pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong. Gender is not a social construct, it a biological construct. If you want to test that hypothesis, give a frontal lobotomy to Qs and I'm sure you will see the difference is in the prefrontal cortex not their DNA. No. Sexuality is a biological determination. Gender is a social construct. What do we call little girls and little boys who don't fit their moulds? The ones we don't try to squash back in that is. Or the ones that just won't fit. Not to be confused with sexuality .. which has nothing to do with children.

Queer?

And yes, children are sexual beings, not to recognise this is denying children a part of themselves.

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:57pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:43pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:39pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong. Gender is not a social construct, it a biological construct. If you want to test that hypothesis, give a frontal lobotomy to Qs and I'm sure you will see the difference is in the prefrontal cortex not their DNA. No. Sexuality is a biological determination. Gender is a social construct. What do we call little girls and little boys who don't fit their moulds? The ones we don't try to squash back in that is. Or the ones that just won't fit. Not to be confused with sexuality .. which has nothing to do with children. Queer? And yes, children are sexual beings, not to recognise this is denying children a part of themselves.

You would call a child queer? Many children queer?

And what children think of as sexuality has nothing whatsoever with the adult connotations being placed upon it by opponents of the Safe School program. If anything, the Safe School program would encourage healthy exploration.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:57pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:43pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:39pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong. Gender is not a social construct, it a biological construct. If you want to test that hypothesis, give a frontal lobotomy to Qs and I'm sure you will see the difference is in the prefrontal cortex not their DNA. No. Sexuality is a biological determination. Gender is a social construct. What do we call little girls and little boys who don't fit their moulds? The ones we don't try to squash back in that is. Or the ones that just won't fit. Not to be confused with sexuality .. which has nothing to do with children. Queer? And yes, children are sexual beings, not to recognise this is denying children a part of themselves. You would call a child queer? Many children queer? And what children think of as sexuality has nothing whatsoever with the adult connotations being placed upon it by opponents of the Safe School program. If anything, the Safe School program would encourage healthy exploration.

How about "different"?

I never said it had to do with having sex, just they are sexual beings, it's in their biology, it's in the games they play.

I'm all for trying to stop bullying although I think it does a child a world of good to stand up against it him/herself, to fight back. This is the part I have a problem with.
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/sites/sbs.com.au.yourlanguage/files/styles/body_image/public/podcasts//site_197_Korean_477155.JPG

There is also Prof Gary Dowsett behind Safe Schools.

"The Deputy Director of ARCSHS, Prof. Gary Dowsett, is a veteran homosexual activist. In 1982, he authored an article for the journal ‘Gay Information‘ [issue no. 11, pp. 34-38], which was published by a Sydney-based organisation called ‘Gay Information Service’. The article was titled ‘Boiled Lollies and Bandaids: Gay Men and Kids‘ (click here to view the original). Here are some excerpts:

    “First, we have three legal/social questions to win: custody rights for gay men and lesbians; the legal right of paedophiles and their young loves; and finally, the sexual rights of children as a whole.”

    “And I also have a friend, a paedophile, who is working very hard on making sense out of his relations with boys. Those relations consist of, among other things, a large amount of nurture and support for these boys, a real caring for their welfare and growth.”

    “How different then is that gentle, tentative sexuality between parent and child from the love of a paedophile and his/her lover? From all their accounts and from many academic studies (some worse than others), that kind of love, warmth, support and nurture is an important part of the paedophilic relationship.”

    “The current paedophilia debate then is crucial to the political processes of the gay movement: paedophiles need our support, and we need to construct the child/adult sex issue on our terms.” "

"Boiled Lollies and Bandaids: Gay Men and Kids"

https://www.scribd.com/doc/304946253/Gay-Information-Spring-1982

lee wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 4:09pm:

There is also Prof Gary Dowsett behind Safe Schools. "The Deputy Director of ARCSHS, Prof. Gary Dowsett, is a veteran homosexual activist. In 1982, he authored an article for the journal ‘Gay Information‘ [issue no. 11, pp. 34-38], which was published by a Sydney-based organisation called ‘Gay Information Service’. The article was titled ‘Boiled Lollies and Bandaids: Gay Men and Kids‘ (click here to view the original). Here are some excerpts:     “First, we have three legal/social questions to win: custody rights for gay men and lesbians; the legal right of paedophiles and their young loves; and finally, the sexual rights of children as a whole.”     “And I also have a friend, a paedophile, who is working very hard on making sense out of his relations with boys. Those relations consist of, among other things, a large amount of nurture and support for these boys, a real caring for their welfare and growth.”     “How different then is that gentle, tentative sexuality between parent and child from the love of a paedophile and his/her lover? From all their accounts and from many academic studies (some worse than others), that kind of love, warmth, support and nurture is an important part of the paedophilic relationship.”     “The current paedophilia debate then is crucial to the political processes of the gay movement: paedophiles need our support, and we need to construct the child/adult sex issue on our terms.” " "Boiled Lollies and Bandaids: Gay Men and Kids" https://www.scribd.com/doc/304946253/Gay-Information-Spring-1982

And there you have it.

SAFE SCHOOLS PROGRAME IS GROOMING AND GENDER DESTRUCTION TO PROVIDE MORE CHILDREN FOR THE TERMINALLY QUEER TO PREY ON.

Valkie wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 4:19pm:

lee wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 4:09pm: There is also Prof Gary Dowsett behind Safe Schools. "The Deputy Director of ARCSHS, Prof. Gary Dowsett, is a veteran homosexual activist. In 1982, he authored an article for the journal ‘Gay Information‘ [issue no. 11, pp. 34-38], which was published by a Sydney-based organisation called ‘Gay Information Service’. The article was titled ‘Boiled Lollies and Bandaids: Gay Men and Kids‘ (click here to view the original). Here are some excerpts:     “First, we have three legal/social questions to win: custody rights for gay men and lesbians; the legal right of paedophiles and their young loves; and finally, the sexual rights of children as a whole.”     “And I also have a friend, a paedophile, who is working very hard on making sense out of his relations with boys. Those relations consist of, among other things, a large amount of nurture and support for these boys, a real caring for their welfare and growth.”     “How different then is that gentle, tentative sexuality between parent and child from the love of a paedophile and his/her lover? From all their accounts and from many academic studies (some worse than others), that kind of love, warmth, support and nurture is an important part of the paedophilic relationship.”     “The current paedophilia debate then is crucial to the political processes of the gay movement: paedophiles need our support, and we need to construct the child/adult sex issue on our terms.” " "Boiled Lollies and Bandaids: Gay Men and Kids" https://www.scribd.com/doc/304946253/Gay-Information-Spring-1982 And there you have it. SAFE SCHOOLS PROGRAME IS GROOMING AND GENDER DESTRUCTION TO PROVIDE MORE CHILDREN FOR THE TERMINALLY QUEER TO PREY ON.

I wouldn't go that far. I would say it's an attempt to make some people's broken minds seem validated and normal.

mothra wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:56pm:

Valkie wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:55pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:35pm: Setanta wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:33pm: rhino wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:30pm: mothra wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:23pm: I disagree that the gender binary represents a large enough percentage of the population for it to be pushed as the truth. Is this the most incredibly facile comment of the year? How on earth do you think the human race is propogated?  The gender binary is all there is bar from the very small percentage of the population that is XXY or XYY. The rest is feelings, emotion, not gender. Gender is a social construct. More and more people are not feeling represented by it. A statistically important number of people never have. This isn't about sexuality. This is where you all get it so horribly wrong. If its not about sexuality. Why do tgey concentrate on genitals, dildos and sexual positions. The majority of the population are NORMAL A small percentage are queer or to put it bluntly mentally ill. Yes homosexuality, bisexuality and other deviations are representitive of mental illness. Just as being sexually attracted to animals, shoes, even mechanical devices. This is a mental illness and should be treated as such. They don't.

Yes they do.
Its all about gender destruction, making everyone gender neutral.
The perfect foundation for sexual grooming, and conversion into confused and mm alliable young children.

This is how gays and pedophiles work.
Grooming, and confusing children so they can carry out their perversions on them.

But some of us NORMALS still exist.
And to touch my children, grandchildren or even great grandchildren will result in the very prolonged and painful  evisceration and eventual demise of the perverted animal that does it.

I will take no prisoners, and I will willingly go to gaol for my actions.
But be assured, I have gutted kangas, sheep and pigs, one poofta pedophile will bring no more angst than gutting them.

Go ask teachers how they feel about this politically correct bullsh.t that they ARE FORCED to pass on in the schools

The biggest complaint I am aware of is that teachers are fed up to the back teeth with State Governments pushing their favourite wheelbarrows into the school ground and thereby preventing the teachers from doing what they do best..TEACH

Setanta wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 10:29am: Setanta wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:10pm: School is not the place for socialising of kids. It's one of the worst places for it. Socialising a child takes a tribe, all ages, from the infants they look after to the children they rest on their knees, to grey haired children, their elders. Peers, are the worst influences on a child, it takes the input of a range of aged people for the child to make reasonable decisions. Disagree ..... school is a large part of that tribe. We tend to congregate with people most like us, limiting kids exposure to your circle of family and friends limits their interactions. It doesn't teach them how to deal with people who are 'different', confrontational, people they don't like. An old psychology teacher once told me he preferred his kids socialise with the wrong crowd, than no crowd. And I prefer mine to socialise with the right crowd rather than the wrong. I can see a heirarchy forming here. In a tribe, the kids learn and interact with all ages, not just their peers. Thinking that kids should spend all/most of their time with their peers is just wrong. They need to associate with their whole tribe not their peers to get a well rounded view of how to behave.

but they don't spend all their time with their peers. A lot of the time at school is spent listening to teachers, and then they still have you and your social circle when they're at home