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General Discussion >> General Board >> Top blokes, totally out of character http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1489786689 Message started by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:38am |
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Title: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:38am
Top blokes, totally out of character: when five white men beat an Aboriginal man to death
These are the facts, as they were agreed to by the perpetrators. After a long night of drinking, Scott Doody, Timothy Hird, Joshua Spears, Anton Kloeden, and Glen Swain left a casino at 6am in the morning of 25 July 2009. They ranged in age from 18–23. Most of them were drunk, but Kloeden, the driver, was not. Kloeden, in the words of Chief Justice Martin, then thought it would be fun to ‘take on the challenge of driving along the Todd River bed to the Telegraph Station’. Even more fun, Kloeden then ‘made the offensive and stupid decision to harass the Aboriginal people camped in the riverbed’, nearby Schwarz Crescent causeway. They drove towards a group of at least six campers. The campers fled to trees for safety, except for an elderly Aboriginal person, who was too elderly to respond with adequate speed. Kloeden drove within a metre of him, with the intention of terrifying him by narrowly missing him. Having driven away Kloeden turned the car back to the camp due to a fenced off exit. Kloeden had not yet had enough fun for the night: he drove over the elderly man’s swag as they passed the camp again. One female camper, who saw the young men coming, threw a small log at their car. Some of the men got out of the car and ‘yelled abuse’ at the Aboriginal campers. The form of this abuse was not recorded. The night, now morning, was not yet over. Kloeden thought there was more fun to be had, so he drove at another Aboriginal camping group. The three Aboriginal people were sleeping. They were woken up by the car speeding towards them, and fled for their lives. Kloeden parked near the campers, and again ‘words were exchanged’. The sort of words exchanged is not yet on the public record. After this, the group decided to return to the home of Hird and Swain. Fun was still to be had. Once there, the group picked up more alcohol, Hird’s gun and blank ammunition. They drove along and Hird shot his gun, though at one point it jammed. As they approached Schwarz Crescent causeway, they stopped the car so that Hird could fix his gun. Having fixed it, he shot it again. Justice Martin noted that the car was intentionally stopped so that Hird would be able to ‘scare the Aboriginal occupants’ of the first camp they had terrorised previously. This goal was achieved. As Swain testified to the police, the campers began running, and obviously ‘feared for their lives’, according to the judge’s rendition of Swain. Hird plainly contributed to this by holding the pistol outside the car in the direction of the camp. An Aboriginal man, Kwementyaye Ryder, was one of the campers who had been terrorised by Kloeden’s driving in the first instance. He responded this time by throwing a bottle, which hit the side of the car. Kloeden immediately executed a sudden u-turn. He stopped so close to Ryder that Ryder could grab the bullbar. All four passengers raced out of the car, with Hird the first one out. Without checking the damage to the car, they chased Ryder, who tripped and fell. Confronted with a man ‘lying defenceless and incapable of posing any threat to any of the offenders’, they repeatedly kicked him in the head, and Spears struck his head with a bottle. They told him ‘Don’t bugger with us’. Swain, who had kicked Ryder in the head twice, noticed he was lying motionless, and that something was plainly wrong. He called out ‘Let’s go’, considering that the most appropriate reaction. They got into the car. Kloeden hadn’t gotten out of the car because he was executing a three-point-turn. Apparently untroubled by what he saw, Kloeden was ‘seen to drive away at a leisurely, normal pace’. The men proceeded to lie to the police over the course of a week. Swain and Kloeden lied to the police, saying they had gone by themselves to a racecourse and fallen asleep there. Hird lied to the police, saying that he had gone to the casino with Doody and hadn’t seen Swain or Kloeden. Justice Martin did not comment on it, but the matching alibis point to some collusion among the defendants. Justice Martin noted to the defendants that it was apparent they ‘would inevitably be caught’, which may help explain why Swain offered a full confession within a week. Out of the group of five, Swain was the ‘only person who made a full and frank confession to the police and who gave them every assistance possible’. Those are the facts. Justice Martin then had the task of interpreting them. He concluded that this ‘crime is toward the lower end of the scale of seriousness for crimes of manslaughter’. Not enough violence was inflicted, and the defendants supposedly could not have foreseen a serious risk of death from their violent attack. Repeatedly kicking someone in the head and hitting him with a bottle and then fleeing when the victim was motionless is apparently not recklessness, but negligence to Justice Martin. Justice Martin then considered the possible value of inflicting a heavier sentence for deterrence value. He dismissed this too. His grounds for this are particularly striking: the violence ‘arose out of an angry and aggressive reaction to a perceived insult’. Plainly, there could be no value in deterrence with a mere crime of violence perpetrated by intoxicated youths responding to a perceived insult. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:38am
What didn’t feature in his discussion of deterrence was what he acknowledged repeatedly was the ‘atmosphere of antagonism towards Aboriginal persons’ manifested by the defendants. Nor was this mentioned as an aggravating feature. Which goes much of the way towards explaining his lenient sentencing: Doody, who did not physically strike Ryder, was sentenced to four years imprisonment to be suspended after 12 months. Hird, Kloeden and Spears were sentenced to six years imprisonment, with a non-parole period of 4 years. Swain had half a year taken off both measures, on account of his confession.
Yet there is one other factor which played a crucial role in Justice Martin’s sentencing, and is arguably the most appalling part of his decision. Justice Martin went out of his way to provide character references for every single defendant. Doody is ‘a person of positive good character’. Hird is a ‘solid, hard-working young man of good character’. Kloeden has an ‘underlying good character’. Spears is a ‘person of very good character’. Swain, like Kloeden, was a ‘person of underlying good character’. These men of good character repeatedly terrorised Aboriginal people for being Aboriginal, before getting a gun to terrorise them further, ending the night by beating a man to death, and then casually driving away without checking if their victim was okay. Justice Martin’s grounds for these conclusions are astonishing. He notes character references in their favour, proving that many of them have friends and employers who think nice things about them. This hardly balances out what they did. He then scrapes the barrel in special pleading on their behalf, holding, for example, that Spears had never previously ‘come into contact with the criminal law’. Considering he was 18 at the time, this is hardly such an achievement. Hird, Kloeden, and Swain, on the other hand, despite their youth had previously had difficulties with the law. Yet Justice Martin was able to claim that this was ‘totally out of character’ for all of them, and also that they were ‘genuinely sorry’. Presumably he was able to judge their tremendous remorse from how they casually left the scene of the motionless man who soon died from their beating. This too was in their character. Or perhaps their remorse was manifested in the lies they worked on together to tell the cops. Or perhaps he judged their remorse in the fact that four out of five of them didn’t cooperate with the police at all, and the only one did when it was already apparent that they would be caught. What was missing from Justice Martin’s sentencing remarks, and sentence, was a sense of revulsion at what happened. The five young men engaged in recreational activities that wouldn’t be out of place in a gathering of Klansmen. This disgusting crime was not just an attack on Ryder. It was an attack on Aboriginal people in Australia. It – and Martin’s judgement – was an attack on our decency as a people. I am appalled as a human being to live in a country where such a terrible crime can take place, where the media and public intellectuals – with the honourable exception of National Indigenous Times Chris Graham, who gave me the judgement on Friday – have reacted with complete indifference. I am horrified as a Jewish person to live in a country where a member of a small, vulnerable minority can be victimised in such a shocking manner, and the perpetrators can still be described as basically good people. https://overland.org.au/2010/05/top-blokes-totally-out-of-character-when-five-white-men-beat-an-aboriginal-man-to-death/ |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am
Why wasn't this all over the media at the time?
What could possibly excuse this judge? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by gandalf on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:54am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am:
Because the lefty media is too busy apologising for and covering up those dastardly minoriti... oh wait... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:57am polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:54am:
Yes indeed. But the Aboriginal people probably bring it on themselves ... seeing as their of a different race to us and don't assimilate. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:58am
how do you know it wasnt????...all over the media in 2009/10???????..
for what reason are you bringing it up now?....it happened 7 years ago. its horrible stuff...but talking about why wasnt it all over the media wont change that... gandy may have a point...but if its racism you are looking at,. may I suggest you contact the Judge... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:04am cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:58am:
I think i would remember it. I am thoroughly disgusted. Are you not disgusted Cods? And i am "bringing it up" because it has only just come to my attention. Anyway, why didn't you ask Gordy why he brought up the Punchbowl Primary story? That was years ago too. No comment? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:06am
Did the article Cods?
"I am appalled as a human being to live in a country where such a terrible crime can take place, where the media and public intellectuals – with the honourable exception of National Indigenous Times Chris Graham, who gave me the judgement on Friday – have reacted with complete indifference." |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:06am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:04am:
::) ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:07am
So no comment then.
Typical. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am
mothra I cannot argue or talk with you..
everything is WAR with you.. I prefer less stress thank you.. I did answer I highlighted the comment you claim I didnt make.... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:14am cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:09am:
No Cods. It's not all WAR with me. I just stand my ground. But i'm not interested in what you think of me .. what do you think of of a judge who lets a bunch of hooligans terrorise Aboriginal people for hours and then kill one refer to them as "good blokes" and give the such pissy little sentences? Do you have an opinion on that? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:28am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:14am:
there you go...already disagreeing.. its how I see you... not what you think... but yes I do. but I wont expand because whatever I say you will shoot full of holes...so far you have done that with everything in every single thread I have given an opinion... mothra... I mean virtually everything...lets leave it at that.... you see you argue.... I dont want to do that...back and forth.. saying the same thing a dozen different ways stresses me out.. I have an opinion and so do you.. we do not agree on just about everything... I dont need an opinion on something that happened 7 years ago... whats the point.. I am more concerned with today..bringing up old wounds doesnt heal anything in my opinion.. its history its set in concrete cannot be changed cannot be undone....I prefer we are better than this judges summing up...and hope we have come a long way since then... if we are doing that thats all I can hope for... we sadly have a situation now where the Stolen Generation is doing far more harm.. than it ever did all those years ago... our future generations are going to have to find a way to live with the history we are creating RIGHT NOW.in 2017 :( :( :( :( :( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:35am cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:28am:
There i go again? I'm standing my ground Cods. I don't agree with you summation of me. I a quite entitled to say so. Now, have a look back through this thread and see who drew first blood. Did you ask Gordy why he started a thread on something that happened years ago? And what the hell do you mean you "don't need to have an opinion on this"? What the hell are you doing in this thread then? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:46am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:35am:
????????? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:50am
Read the judgement here.....
http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/1712rydersentencing.html I don't recall the case in the media at time the sentence was handed down, however it certainly was at the time Justice Martin was appointed to head up the Royal Commission into Juvenile Detention in the NT (2016 if my memory is correct.) Thank heavens he did not take up that appointment.... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:53am cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:46am:
\ Oh for crying out loud ... do you ever read what is said to you? You say you "don't need to have an opinion on this" ... yes? So what are you doing in this thread if "you don't need to have an opinion on this"? Trolling me? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:13am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:35am:
Firstly, I don't think your posting an old story requires explanation particularly as you're posting it not to discuss the actual story but it's level of interest to the media and public. However, comparing it to the Punchbowl Public story is not fair as my article was new Yahoo7 on March 16, 2017, 7:15 am and the reason I posted it, and why it was re framed by the media is because it hold fresh relevance with the ongoing Punchbowl High issues. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:16am
Taking all the sensationalist emotion out of it, an 18 year old got 6 years for manslaughter. Nothing unusual about that. Thats in par.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:21am Alinta wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:50am:
Thanks Alinta ... and yes, agreed. The fact he was even considered for the job outrages me. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:22am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Seriously? After terrorising Aboriginal people all night: "Kloeden immediately executed a sudden u-turn. He stopped so close to Ryder that Ryder could grab the bullbar. All four passengers raced out of the car, with Hird the first one out. Without checking the damage to the car, they chased Ryder, who tripped and fell. Confronted with a man ‘lying defenceless and incapable of posing any threat to any of the offenders’, they repeatedly kicked him in the head, and Spears struck his head with a bottle. They told him ‘Don’t bugger with us’. Swain, who had kicked Ryder in the head twice, noticed he was lying motionless, and that something was plainly wrong. He called out ‘Let’s go’, considering that the most appropriate reaction. They got into the car. Kloeden hadn’t gotten out of the car because he was executing a three-point-turn. Apparently untroubled by what he saw, Kloeden was ‘seen to drive away at a leisurely, normal pace’." Should be murder. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:23am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:16am:
The sentences seem a bit on the light side, but not surprising with the softcock slaps with a wet hanky we regularly see. What were the ages of the 5 perps? I've opened a few articles and they've all been referred to as boys |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:25am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:16am:
and the others got 3yrs...I thought the judge was quite scathing in his summing up of what they did... but maybe thats not important.. a character assassination would have been far better.. a judge today has recommended raising the Juvenile crime age to 21.... as he says the brain isnt fully matured till then... ::) ::) just thought I would mention that... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:27am cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:25am:
Crazy, can you link to the that? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:27am Gordon wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:23am:
I dont know gordy a man got 6 years for killing a 3 yr old girls setting fire to her body and burying her in the bush... after claiming she had been kidnapped... :'( :'( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:28am
[url][/url]
Gordon wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:27am:
[urlhttp://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1489791111][/url] http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1489791111 |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:32am
Doing a google news search of the story it seems there was a fair bit of coverage but I'd suggest any perceived lack is due to eastern centric news desks.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:34am Gordon wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:32am:
you cant read DT?>... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:35am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am:
Are you kidding? This story was given very big exposure in the media. It's not because of alcohol that Muslims are before our courts all the time, and it's not because of alcohol that Muslims require several national security policing agencies to keep an eye on them. Nice try but no cigar. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:36am Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:35am:
Muslims? Are you mixing up your prejudices, Herbie? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:37am
we shouldnt sneer at new ideas..
its worth looking at.. lets face it gordy what we are doing isnt stopping anything.... mind you at the same time they will need to raise the drinking law ages as well.. most kids in the N,.T, are troubled by alcohol... maybe raise the age to 25.. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:38am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:22am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Unforgiven on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:39am
The law enforcement and justice system in Australia is patently corrupt.
If perpetrators had been Muslims they would have got life sentences. Police and prosecution trivialized the murder. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by FRED. on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am Unforgiven wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:39am:
And you know this how were you there fknuckle ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:38am:
After terrorising Aboriginals all night (for which they were not punished), they, quite deliberately, kicked a man to death. Nice of you to make excuses or them. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am
Four Corners covered it well.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20100719/alice/ |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am Unforgiven wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:39am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:43am Unforgiven wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:39am:
Agreed. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:44am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:44am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Yes they were acting like barbarians all night, but the actual death was manslaughter. That's the way the law works. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:45am Gordon wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Thanks for the link. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by FRED. on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:46am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:43am:
;D ;D ;D Ff.s you know so much already and you have just found out about it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:48am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:44am:
Did you read the court transcripts? The judge was a raving racist. He described the foul creatures as "good blokes". What, pray tell, do you think happens to a person who is already immobolised when you kick the repeatedly about the head? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:53am
Emotional argument. The fella that didnt hit anyone got 4 years. Do you think thats right?
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:55am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:48am:
Quote:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by miketrees on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:56am Without alcohol this would never have happened. You can wark on all you like about injustices etc. But the sacred cow of alcohol must be preserved at all cost. Alcohol even in this case has been used as a mitigating circumstance. These clowns should not have had the privilege of access to alcohol |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:56am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:53am:
For what they did? Damn straight. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:02am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:56am:
So he got 4 years for what they did. 18 years old, 4 years in max is a life changer. I also suggest that 6 years for the main perpetrator is also a life changer. Particularly in a jail system where the majority of inmates are aboriginal. What do you want Mothra, all their old lives are gone, demolished, should they be hanged do you think? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:06am
Well there seems to be a stack of media coverage including a Four Corners cover story.
Do doubt if it occurred on the east coast the Sydney Melbourne Brisbane centric news desks would have covered it more. Sorry guys, what happens in the arse end of Australia doesn't hold much interest. Not fair, but it is what it is. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:32am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:02am:
6 years for kicking a man in the head until he i dead? After terrorising innocent people with all night? Are you serious? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:01am
He didnt get 6 years for kicking a man in the head until he was dead. You arent following this too well.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:43am mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:35am:
;D ;D ;D Stop bullying codsey! She has every right to reserve her opinion. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:45am Unforgiven wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:39am:
Nonsense. There were mitigating circumstances. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:47am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Correct. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:52am Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:45am:
And they were? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 1:05pm
Sounds like all involved did a good job not encouragong a race riot
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 18th, 2017 at 1:11pm rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:02am:
hanging would be a fair judgement. They didn't accidentally kill someone, they kicked him in the head until he died. If you think kicking someone in the head repeatedly isn't going to kill them then you should probably be hung anyway |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:08pm mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:32am:
20 years with 15 years parole, and not the death sentence only because the government is partly responsible for legalising the consumption of alcohol. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:08pm John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 1:11pm:
;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:10pm Nonsense. There were mitigating circumstances. mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 11:52am:
The consumption of copious amounts of alcohol - a known mind-altering drug. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:15pm
wouldnt want to be your 18 year old son thats for sure..
how many males can honestly claim they never did something they are ashamed of in their teens.. or even later with some of you...sadly some dont get away with it as in this case someone lost their life...its the same with the King Hit.. some die some dont...but you can bet your socks.. Mr alcohol Abuse was involved. :( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:28pm Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:10pm:
I see. So, if a Muslim group of idiots gets pissed and repeats this incident.....you'd excuse it because of the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol - a known mind-altering drug? And this, from cods, was noticeable: Quote:
That never stopped you from expressing your opinion on e.g. Rolf Harris who has been dragged through the Courts for events which happened "27" years ago. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:32pm Aussie wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
aussie... nice one... can you tell me what one thing has to do with the other...??????>. I was b eing asked.. about the JUDGES SUMMING UP>> WHICH AT THE TIME WAS NOT THE FULL PICTURE>>> can you explain when I commented on the JUDGES SUMMING UP OF ROLF> |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:55pm cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:15pm:
I wouldn't want my son to be out camping and have a bunch of dickheads to that to him either. Your point? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 18th, 2017 at 6:09pm
If I had been the Prosecutor, I would have hammered these arseholes. The attitude seems to be.....oh.....it doesn't matter, the victims were just a bunch of dero Abos living in bark humpies on the river bank. Everything about this from start with the idiots to finish with the Judge is shouting out....just a bunch of boongs, who cares.
Pricks, everyone involved! |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:08pm Aussie wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Who said anything about 'excusing it'? Alcohol is a legal drug that is known to reduce moral inhibition. That's why I hypothetically elected to give the guilty parties 20 years with 15 years parole instead of the death penalty. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:10pm Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:08pm:
You did. Quote:
That is, grog. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:11pm Aussie wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:10pm:
That's not excusing it. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:13pm
What is it, then?
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:17pm
Now you're just trolling.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:18pm Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:17pm:
No. Mitigation/excuse. Same same. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:23pm John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 5:55pm:
my point you said.. John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 1:11pm:
18 year old kills man it happen a lot.. one day it could be your son .....or daughter.....being charged... and by the sound of this you would tell the judge to hang him/.her. >:( >:( >:( if you think you can stop your children doing what they do at 18... have I got news for you. besides you told me once you tell your kids all the facts of life you want them to know everything...at a young age... telling them all about grog/drugs wont stop them trying it... nothing is that easy! |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:41pm Aussie wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
funny I dont recall you being this upset when it was Brett Cowan.. and what about that creep arsehole who killed his wife and still pretends he didnt.. Gerard or something.. then that guy whos lady friend fell off his balcony that only happened to be 15 floors up and he locked her out on it...then went out to buy pizza while they scraped her off the pavbement.. no I dont recall any words like..... :( :( perhaps you can prove me wrong and punch them up... you seem to have allsorts put away about PA I am sure you can find something just as unpleasant you said about those guys... ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:51pm cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
+1 million |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:54pm John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 1:11pm:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:57pm Aussie wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:59pm cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:01pm Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:08pm:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:49pm cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
and he should hang for it |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:51pm rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:54pm:
most people don't get kicked in the head repeatedly. If you think you can kick someone in the head repeatedly and they'll be fine, then you should hang just for being so stupid. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 8:05am John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:49pm:
like I said.. I wouldnt want to be a son of yours... I guess you get the point now... I cant help myself I believe just about every 18 yr old makes mistakes... some worse than others.... and I would never hang one... I believe in a second chance.......you dont you have made that clear. unless of course this wasnt the first time for these lads. ::) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lord Herbert on Mar 19th, 2017 at 8:11am John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:49pm:
I wouldn't cut the rope before they pulled the lever. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:34am cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 8:05am:
no son of mine would ever do anything so stupid. If they did they'd do so knowing they have to accept the consequences. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:34am cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 8:05am:
beating someone to death is not a 'mistake'. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:37am cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Rubbish cods. Apples/apples please. In each of those cases, an obvious racial factor was not apparent. Here it is. The victims were 'filthy boongs living in squalor' so lets go terrify 'em, kicks their heads in, fire some shots at 'em for a bit of jolly happy joy joy fun. That is how the system seems to have dealt with it as well. Those people don't count, but these were fine, mighty fine upstanding white men. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:39am rhino wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 9:57pm:
No, what I am saying is that they were treated with kids gloves because their victims were just filthy boongs etc. but they were whitey's finest exemplary young men. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:41am John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:34am:
As did these five fellows when they pleaded guilty to manslaughter. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by John Smith on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:43am Alinta wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:41am:
they pled guilty to manslaughter to avoid the higher charge of murder |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:49am John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:43am:
I'll take your word for that Mr Smith. If I had been the prosecutor, there would have been no deal. It would have been a murder trial, and if I lost on that charge, there is no way a Jury acting in good faith would not convict of manslaughter. He always had them on manslaugther, deal or not. The pricks should have been charged and tried for murder....if the Jury could not be convinced of that, no way could they not convict of manslaughter. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:58am Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:37am:
oh come on.......did they scream racial comments as they hooned around... not that i read.. its your lousy mind thats what keep racials going,... they probably would have done it no matter who was there... they were loaded up...give us a break please...you use anything as an excuse you are worse than the perps sometimes... these young lads acted extremely badly and sadly a man died and they will live with that the rest of their lives.. sadly a little boy dies.. daniel his name was.. and a young mum died. Allison her name was.. just because they were white doesnt make them any less dead... two were deliberate.. >:( >:( >:( >:(... and both were hidden......... >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( you didnt say too much about that either. and I dont recall you condemning the perps for doing that.... I am sure you would have done so had Daniel and Allison been filthy boongs though must remember that... >:( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:59am Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:49am:
yet is was ok with you to reduce Gerards murder charge to manslaughter.. what a joke you are. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:01am Quote:
What part of that do you disagree with, cods? Quote:
The joke is on your, cods. He was charged with murder, not manslaughter. He was convicted of murder. No deal done. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:07am Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:01am:
selecting the bits that fit in with your crosseyed make on things doesnt do it for me aussie.. I have said what they did was bad....I am making allowances for age.. GERARD was not 18 when he killed and hid his wifes body.. which you believe was really manslaughter.. yet you would deny these boys the same tights to the law.. where they can plead guilty to a lesser charge... yep try and find a bloody excuse for thinking like that... you are the one using APPALLING words like FILthy BOONGS>. I dont even know what that means... never heard it before.. but I am guessing, its what you call them.... not what these lads called them??. at least i didnt see it in the summing up.... perhaps you can point it out to me... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:09am Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:01am:
The joke is on your, cods. He was charged with murder, not manslaughter. He was convicted of murder. No deal done.[/quote] wanker he got it reduced to manslaughter until the public went mad and made them rebuke the judgement.....and you were all for it.. said it was quite right it was manslaughter..... you even porclaimed the public protest would do no good.. well we shut you up good and proper so that why you can now say what you are saying... you are such a wanker. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:11am
btw aussie..
why do you keep refering to these people as ' FILTHY BOONGS!!! is that just your preferred name for aboriginals???????.. >:( >:( >:( >:( because I do not like it one bit... and you are the only one I have seen use it.. >:( >:( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:18am
cods, I have read about 50 lines of the judgement and found this:
Quote:
Have to go out now, and will read the rest of the judgement when I get back. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:37am Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:18am:
I still didnt see FILTHY BOONGS though.. your name for them... not mine...... or theirs as far as I know.. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 19th, 2017 at 11:38am cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:37am:
That expression does not appear in the judgement Cods. In a nutshell, the part that galls me the most is that Justice Martin concedes racial motivation, lists aggravating factors, then overly (my opinion only) relies upon character references in passing sentence. I accept reduction for the guilty plea, but overall, too light. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 19th, 2017 at 11:50am cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:11am:
You're right, dear. The correct term is dirty Boongs. Enough with the euphemisms, Aussie. Stop trying to be so PC. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 2:43pm
Sorry Karnal. You are right.....dirty boongs it is.
Do you reckon cods will understand the metaphor? Perhaps if you ask her, it might be better than if I do. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:09pm Alinta wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 11:38am:
what would have been fair seeing as how they pled guilty..??? the judge said he would have given them the higher sentence other wise.. sorry alinta... but look what they did in the Baden Clay trial.. they even blackened her name..... try to say she caused all the problems in the marriage.. it was terrible.. yet aussie never complained about that.. I am talking about aussies attitude alinta... n ot the judges... go back and read what he says if he had been the prosecutor.... he just stopped short of hanging them... do you agree with that attitude.???>..for 18 yr olds... one at least put his hand up....he was the worst of a bad lot... the op I believe is complaining about the judges summing up.... are judges not allowed to mention character or behavior |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:10pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
I think its disgusting.. ....and I wouldnt want anyone to call me that if I was aboriginal.. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:12pm cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
And neither am I, cods. Read what I have posted. It is reeking with sarcasm and satire 'Dirty boongs' (among other things) is what these pricks regarded their victims as. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:28pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:12pm:
no sir.. you have repeated it over and over... dont blame those lads.. as alinta has pointed out nothing like that said in the summing up.. you are disgraceful... only people with LOW minds use language like that.. I have been here a long time and never heard that word in my life until now... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:34pm
Why do you have to be spoon fed explanations for the most simple and obvious?
If you did not live as a kid, like I did, where aboriginals were many ... you'd not know. My parents drilled respect for them into me. The parents of other kids did the opposite. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:12pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:34pm:
bull shite.. if your parents did that no way would you use words like that.. just to make a point.. no way at all...I am over you aussie....you forget yourself so many times... you cant disappear these threads so its there for ever more... you think patronising me as is your wont.. will shut me down.. and believe your twaddle.. not any more I am like all your mates at PA>. disgusted.... admit you were wrong... admit it.. but your wont... I have no respect left for you aussie none at all. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:23pm
From the judgement:
Quote:
Gee cods, I wonder what that abuse was? Quote:
An exchange of recipes not doubt. Quote:
Abuse, hey. Wonder what the words were, cods? Care to guess? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:27pm cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:12pm:
Gawd you make it so hard to take you seriously. Fair dinkum. Go down to the Pub on Saturday night and listen to the language used by the white drunks when Aboriginals are being discussed. Read: Link. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:29pm cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
Absolutely Cods........but it's my opinion that Justice Martin gave it overly favourable weight in respect of sentence.....that opinion may be incorrect, nevertheless that is how I see it. At the end of the day though, they pleaded guilty, were convicted and sentenced. Whether or not the sentence appears to me lenient is irrelevant........they'll serve their time and be released, but they will always carry a manslaughter conviction. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 19th, 2017 at 7:16pm
Thread has now probably run its course.
Details of the Committal Hearing are scant but this sheds some light on at least part of what was said.. "In evidence given to the Committal proceeding in the Alice Springs Magistrate's Court in December 2009, one of the campers told the Court that the "words exchanged" included "You black nice people - bugger off out of this Todd River" and "Get out of the Todd River, you motherbuggerers".." guess I should have known I couldn't post what was really said!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 19th, 2017 at 8:08pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
No worries. I say, Cods, do you think calling a decent white person a wanker is preferable to calling some drunken Abo a filthy Boong? A simple yes or no will suffice, dear. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:30pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:27pm:
no mate I am reading what you say.. and thats who i am disgusted with... you are a piece of work. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:33pm John Smith wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 10:51pm:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:36pm John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:34am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:37pm John Smith wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:34am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:37pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:27pm:
Go down to the taxi rank on a Saturday night and listen to the language used by taxi drivers when Uber drivers are being discussed. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:38pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:39am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:39pm Aussie wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:49am:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:49pm Alinta wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 4:29pm:
EXACTLY.. this is what I mean.... they did what alot of people do... get soaking drunk then abused decent people...but it ended up very bad the worst....... and they will live with that forever... it can happen to anyones son or grandson or cousin or nephew..... it breaks my heart what they have done.. but nothing in this world will undo it... to my mind the judge was saying....exactly that.. there but for the grace of god... goes anyones son.. it doesnt sound as if they were hill billies or roughnecks.... what makes them go off like this.... who knows ::) ::) I am sure there are many young men in jail right now whos parents are saying the same thing.. what happened we didnt bring him up to do this... :( no not for murder maybe but near murder when they knock someone into the next world and put them in comas....some to spend their lives in wheelchairs because of some ,....... idiot.... who thinks he can drink... my son did the drinking and the drugs.. he gave us quite a torrid time....two of his mates are dead car crashes.. and one committed suicide...one is a dead set alcoholic..who fights with everyone.. hopeless.. so I think I am lucky my son survived and is the dad of two very bright kids...of whom I am very proud...but he knows he pushed it......my son that is....and he is more than relived his son hasnt taken after him.. hes 21 now..my son did most of his bad stuff before that age.. today another young man has been charged with MURDER. he stole a car last year the police chased him he drove into someone house and back yard and killed a 2 yr old girl.... it was manslaughter but now they have upgraded ,it... the toddlers parents will never get over it.... and neither I am sure will this young mans parents.... we tend to forget about them as well.. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:59pm
That's true, Cods.. Killing a dirty Boong... It's an easy mistake to make... Anyone could do it.
I feel for the parents too, dear. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:01pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:59pm:
What sound do they make when they hit the bullbar? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:05pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 9:59pm:
no you dont pet... everyone can see through you please go back to doing what you do best |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:06pm Gordon wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
I am sorry to see you joining in his smarty pants FUN gordy thought you would be above that. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:20pm cods wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:06pm:
Karnal and Aussie are using that language in an accusatory way against everyone else. I'm just throwing extra shittt on their already big pile of shitt |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Setanta on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:26pm Gordon wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:20pm:
If they were my kids I'd be petitioning the parole board to keep them in their full term and they be lucky if I didn't give them a good smacking around the head when they were released. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:32pm Setanta wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
If it was my loved one they killed I'd be watching Charles Bronsen movies everyday until they were released from jail |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:09am
Get over it, Gordon. As Cods points out, it was only a mistake.
You never give up on your kids. Never. Unless they're a dirty Boong. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:28am
Boong is slang for 'abang" , malay or indonesion for "brother"
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Raven on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:30am
Poor sentencing has always been a problem.
A 9 year old Aboriginal boy was killed while riding his bike in a hit and run. The driver had a history of meth use and his sister told police he "appeared high" on the day in question. He received an 18 month suspended sentence and 6 months home detention. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Setanta on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:36am Raven wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:30am:
Was it on purpose Raven? People make mistakes but there are mistakes and mistakes. People that would purposely go looking for abos to scare and drive at, run over are at the level of people who would torture animals for enjoyment. I'd feel so very failed as a parent to have them as my kids and would wish their whole sentence carried out. Something like that is not out of the blue. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:59am rhino wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:28am:
Take your apologist krap back to Bali, Rhino. Cods and I aren't too fond of race-traitors. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:06am Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:09am:
What if they're a clean one? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:29am Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:06am:
They're rare. You should know - you pashed one once. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:40am Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:59am:
ahh our very own resident STAND UP COMIC... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:48am Setanta wrote on Mar 19th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
it wouldnt UNDO ANYTHING though would it.. poo happens some of us are so lucky to miss out on this nightmare...all those in jail for whatever all have parents.. some times we do see this coming we just dont want to... young boys right at this moment are falling through the cracks some are even being "radicalised" without mum and dads knowledge.....its crap but its happening.... some people do bad things deliberately... but others do it in a senseless blind moment.... doesnt matter what the sentence it doesnt bring back a life....this is the message that needs to be brought home to kids in danger of falling through the cracks... we cant undo anything if we break it it stays broken... the real world is nothing like an xbox game.. :( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:48am Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:29am:
Have you ever pashed or something given an aboriginal a handjob? I call into question your commitment to race relations. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:02am Gordon wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:48am:
I'm nowhere near as inclusive as you, dear. And don't forget - you're intact as well. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:15am Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:02am:
Am I? Why won't you tell me about Fairfield? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:27am
Fairfield, 29 km from the Sydney CBD. Sister-city of Furstenfeldbruck, Germany. Developed through land-grants to returned veterans of the Great War. Home of the endangered bird-billed frog, which breeds on the banks of the Georges River, near Lansvale. LGA: Fairfield City Council. Home to Gough Whitlam (deceased), Jon English (deceased, and the electrical retailer, Bing Lee.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Raven on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:41am Setanta wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:36am:
Yes people make mistakes. He killed a 9 year old boy, fled the scene and tried to hide the damage to his car. For this he got an 18 month suspended sentence. Melbourne July 30 2016 a man kills a woman with his car and flees the scene, sentenced to 11 years. Darwin December 31 2015 hit and run, 5 years. Adelaide December 2013 another driver under the influence of drugs kills a cyclist in a hit and run, 5 years. Victoria November 26 2013 another cyclist killed in hit and run, driver sentenced to 11 years. These people received more jail time then the men who brutally murdered an Aboriginal man and terrorised a group of aboriginal people minding their own business. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 12:00pm
Boys will be boys, dear.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 12:48pm Raven wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:41am:
raven they are all different States each State has its own sentencing laws... I know I put my hand up many times when I see the sentences being dished out....but the thing is we can protest... you can protest..to the DPP http://www.odpp.nsw.gov.au/ it is up to them whether to appeal a sentencing.. but its worth a try.. no good telling us about it.. we cant do a thing... the rules have to be changed....was it a Police car that hit the boy??...from memory this is what made the difference.... yes very sad mate but nothing will change and bring him back.... have you any cases where a black man has killed more or less the same as a white but his sentencing has been larger????????... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gordon on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:09pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 11:27am:
1/10. You've failed to impart any personal experience and it looks like you've plagiarised from the internet. Just this once, I'll give you the opportunity for a re-do. Can I suggest you rewrite it more in the same style of your piece about the city where Aussie touched an Indian elephant. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:23pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:59am:
yeah i know, you look stupid now. ;) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Raven on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:39pm cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 12:48pm:
Cods it wasn't a police car that killed the boy, it was a man with a history of meth abuse. His sister told police that her brother looked high before he got in the car but because he fled the scene this was unable to be ascertained. In Australia, there has recently been a proliferation of studies in the area of Indigenous sentencing disparities. However, there have only been three prior investigations of Aboriginality and sentencing in Australia’s lower courts. This is a good report investigating disparity between Indigenous and non-indigenous offenders There does appear to be however apathy on behalf of non-indigenous people towards indigenous victims of crime. There was a case in 2007 where an 8 year old Aboriginal boy went missing from a small town called Borroloola in the NT. Two days after his disappearance his shirtless body was found in a muddy creek less than a kilometre from where he lived. Police rapidly concluded he wondered off alone, slipped and hit his head and accidentally drowned. How they came to this conclusion remains unclear. They ignored evidence of footprints showing a child and adult walking in the direction of the creek. They failed to show the family a shirt found near the creek. But most importantly they ignored evidence of rocks in his pockets to weigh him down and a large rock that was on his chest to keep him under the water. Not only that they also threw out potentially crucial evidence gathered when the body was discovered without forensically testing it. For three years police failed to investigate a possible killer in the town of 800 people. Even after the Coroner reopened the the investigation and savaged the police in his final report there was no community outrage at gross negligence of the investigators. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:51pm rhino wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 1:23pm:
I dont like being called a racist for having an opinion some people throw the word around as if its confetti...sadly they do it no favours.. making jokes of it doesnt do it for me either.. I find it best to ignore. . Raven wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:39pm:
thank you for that raven.....sounds a shocker... I would love to bang the drum to have the case reopened...no child should die without reason....I am appalled there is now a program on TV regarding unsolved murders...I would be ringing this station and asking them how do they get the case of this child before the public.. >:( >:( >:( >:( come on raven its not good enough to talk about this on a small forum like this.... look what happened when Gerard Baden Clay has his charge down graded.. its was NOISE raven just angry NOISE>. it doesnt matter to me the boy was aboriginal.. it matters he is dead.. just like Daniel....a wicked crime was done...... did you say a community of 800 people.. ::) ::).. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm
This is a good report investigating disparity between Indigenous and non-indigenous offenders:
http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/1213/11-0910-FinalReport.pdf - Raven Thanks for the link. I've read similar reports but this is an excellent resource. Good luck getting anyone on here to read it though. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lisa Jones on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:52pm cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:58am:
It was all over the media at the time Cods. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:54pm Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:52pm:
Let's see some links then. Should be easy, Jones ~ given you claim it was 'all over the media at the time.' |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:56pm
"There was a case in 2007 where an 8 year old Aboriginal boy went missing from a small town called Borroloola in the NT. Two days after his disappearance his shirtless body was found in a muddy creek less than a kilometre from where he lived."
Yes Raven, "Little Boy Lost"...... http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/02/24/3948892.htm |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:57pm mothra wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
????? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Lisa Jones on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:59pm Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
I'm reading the articles in said links atm. Interesting stuff. While I continue reading....how about you: 1. Clean your sewer and 2. Google these links yourself Thanks ;) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:59pm
4 Corners doesnt get much more exposure than that I am sure..
so far I havent seen anyone offer any advice on getting this story reopened by the police..... ::) ::) am I the only one that thinks thats a good idea?> |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:03pm Quote:
Great. Let's see 'em. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:20pm mothra wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
You can lead a horse to water........as the saying goes..... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:21pm Alinta wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:20pm:
thanks alinta... :( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:22pm Alinta wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:20pm:
Indeed. Even copy and pasting it in doesn't help much of the time. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:25pm cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:21pm:
Why sad face Cods??????/ |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:26pm cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 6:21pm:
Why on god's green earth would you take that personally? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:57pm
Cods, this....
Link. ...and page 9 of the same Thread shows you where these pricks get their attitudes from.....that is, adult people like Nappy and those who think those 'jokes' reflect what we are. On the other hand, maybe it does show what some of us are...people who regard Aboriginals as just dirty boongs they are at liberty to do with as they please. Nah. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:48pm Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 7:57pm:
speaking only for myself.. I gave up living in the past years ago.. it happened when I realised nothing in gods world will change what happened all I can do is try to stop it happening again.. today I sign all sort of petitions that come through my email....I am not in legal or govt and have no way whatever of changing anything other than signing for what I believe in...a fair go for everyone.. as for these young men being brought up to hate no I dont think so...yes they picked on weak victims...and I am more than sorry to read of that....did they go in with bats and bottles... not that I know of...which is the usual weapon of choice when its hate rage.. I asked raven to give me an idea what he meant when talking about injustice.. and he did with links.. which I READ.. with great interest and if you are interested you may have read my reply to him... for me this isnt about black v white I want us to get over that....I dont want to rubbish this country any more its been very very good to me....yes there are some rough people out there and yes there are many mistakes made.. we a re all human.. I dont believe in calling any 18 yr olds all the names under the sun.....thats all!!! if that makes me a bad person so be it! dont bring other people into something they have taken no part in whatever.... ask karnal about his form of jokes that try to take every serious thread down to the lowest point,... if you are taking a dig at myself with that line about page 9.. where I have posted...then I would appreciate you putting it all up so I know what you are POINTING at...thank you... what people regard aboriginals on here as dirty.filthy boogns. as I pointed out to you I have never seen that word before you mentioned. it.. and I pretty sure I have never seen it here or PA... you are the only to talk like that..... >:( I am not sure fd would put up with it either... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:59pm
You might have given up living, sweetheart, but never give up loving.
You have your sleeper and a nice lie down. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:14pm mothra wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
Quote:
Thanks for that. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:18pm Quote:
Heavens, no, Cods. Just a fast moving vehicle running over bodies and beds, their boots and a gun. Nothing serious like bats and bottles. You can relax. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:19pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:59pm:
,whos given up living.???... if you tried to be serious once in a while people might even be interested in what you have to say.. as it is!......................... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:23pm Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:18pm:
oh dear the blank gun you mean.....yeah I am sure rough necks would have used blanks.. ok aussie you win but you are still the only one to use appalling language when describing these people.. thats is a fact you cannot deny... even though it is one you try to avoid....in your usual fashion....if I ever see it anywhere else I will always associate it with you.. it sounds like its on a par with the N word in America.. well done aussie for bringing it too our attention. >:( >:( |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:30pm cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:23pm:
No need to thank me cods. Nappy has educated you far more extensively than I as to why the good white people of Australia, refer to these people as 'dirty boongs.' It's all meant harmlessly, you know. That's why 18 - 23 year old arseholes get to terrorise them at their Homes......it's all just jolly good fun, you know. A dirty boong is killed and they'll all be out in a few short years on probation. As for karnal and what he writes ~ he is the World Champion at ironic sarcasm. I'm just a first year apprentice. You'll work it out one day. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Alinta on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:33pm cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 8:48pm:
Ahhh.....now I understand your "thanks" comment to me, Cods I did not realise at the time that the link Raven supplied in response to your request led to the same report Mothra cited a little later. The comment I made to Mothra was general and in no way directed towards yourself. I can now however appreciate why you thought it was. I'm sorry you took offence.......it was never intended. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:41pm Alinta wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:33pm:
I tried reading the other link.. but would need a week to get through it and not sure I would be any the wise... as you can see I get shot down anyway so not matter no harm done.. in some threads I get the distinct idea some folks dont want positive.. they want to read awful stuff and act as if its still going on....... I should no better and keep my big mouth shut. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Raven on Mar 21st, 2017 at 2:05am cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 4:51pm:
It is just noise and it's not enough to talk about it on small forums, which is why Raven has spent his adult life bringing these issues to people's attention, but the apathy remains. When white children go missing we rally, when aboriginal children go missing we turn away. Back in 2014 a red-headed, freckled-faced 11-year-old girl was, thankfully, found safe and sound in a stranger’s house after disappearing from her family home in Bondi. Michelle Levy had reportedly run away from her family after a fight over a chocolate. In the two days she was missing, her face dominated social media, and found its way into mainstream media as well. Around 1,000 volunteers mobilised to help search for the girl. People dropped whatever they were doing and joined in. There was something about this case that touched people in a very real way and they reached out to help. When children go missing, you would hope this is always the sort of response. But the awful truth is that the disappearance of a child doesn’t always garner such attention. We may all be created equal, but in the eyes of the Australian community – and in particular the Australian media – some children are more equal than others, and more worthy of media attention. The difference is their race, and their financial circumstances. Three Aboriginal children were murdered from the same mission between 1990 and 1991, and despite there being overwhelming evidence pointing to one person – a non-Indigenous man – he has never been convicted. In the first crucial days of the kids’ disappearances, they were completely ignored by local police, who told parents that their children had probably gone ‘walkabout’. In fact, Colleen’s mother, Muriel Craig-Walker, was questioned by police about whether or not she was, in fact, Colleen’s mother, and whether Colleen was even Aboriginal, given her fair complexion. The only other contact Muriel ever received from police in the original investigation was a phone call weeks after Colleen’s disappearance, to inform her that her daughter had been found on a bus on the way to Brisbane. When Muriel rushed to the police station, she was told it was a case of mistaken identity – the Colleen Walker on the bus was an elderly white nun. Clinton Speedy-Duroux’s father, Thomas, was told by NSW Attorney General Greg Smith that it was time he got counselling and moved on, but only after Smith first mistakenly called him by the alleged killer’s name. The families had to protest outside the police station in 1991 simply to get investigators to take notice. Furious about the lack of action, Colleen’s aunty, Elaine Walker asked the local police inspector Bob Moore why he didn’t listen to the community when they gave him information about the killer’s identity. Inspector Moore’s response was that “you people” had to work with police in solving the crime. It's this level of apathy that these families have had fight against for 27 years. Raven witnessed one protest in Macquarie Street as people strode through banners with Justice for Bowravill and listening to people yell out "get a job." So why didn’t Bowraville receive the same level of attention as other cases? The reason can be found in the testimony of Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin, who headed the second investigation into the case in 1997. Jubelin brought to the case 20 years experience investigating homicides, and he says the Bowraville story can’t be told without mentioning one word: Racism. He told the parliamentary inquiry in 2014 Quote:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Raven on Mar 21st, 2017 at 2:19am
Continued...
Again looking at the case of the Borroloola boy his father asked a valid question: Quote:
Why do children like the boy from Borroloola and the kids from Bowraville remain unknown, while Daniel Morcombe is a household name? Why are his parents afforded one level of attention, while we ignore the cries of Aboriginal parents? Now Raven doesn't claim that Daniel is not deserving of our attention, he was a young boy taken by evil. But why are aboriginal kids less deserving? It illustrates the difference in this country, the black and the white. And the sad fact is the onus is always on Aboriginal people to try and bridge the divide. Aboriginal people are forced to protest for their justice, and they risk the continual demonization of their communities when they do. They risk their own incarceration. Look at the death in custody of Mulrunji Doomdagee, who was savagely beaten to death by a police officer on a watchhouse floor on Palm Island. Mulrunji had his liver cleaved in two, and suffered the sorts of injuries you might expect to see from the victim of a plane crash. Both the Queensland government, federal government and the media all ignored it. The community were forced to stage an uprisingm and curn down the courthouse, police stations and police barracks before they were afforded any level of attention – media or government – and even then it was negative, and resulted in the incarceration of almost two dozen protestors. To this day, the only people who have served jail time over the killing of Mulrunji Doomadgee have been Aboriginal people. No cop has lost a cent of pay, let alone seen the inside of a jail cell. The apathy shown to aboriginal victims is still a blight on our society. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:29am
he reason can be found in the testimony of Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin, who headed the second investigation into the case in 1997. Jubelin brought to the case 20 years experience investigating homicides, and he says the Bowraville story can’t be told without mentioning one word: Racism.
He told the parliamentary inquiry in 2014 Quote: I have been investigating crimes for 20 years and I am still shocked by the lack of interest that has been shown in this matter. We have a serial killer and three children were murdered. It has been heartbreaking to see the families suffering. The only time they seem to get things happening is when they attract the media’s attention or when they publicly protest. That is very unfortunate. The families know the reason. The families told me the reason when I first met them in 1997. They said ‘it’s because we’re Aboriginal’. At the time when I met the families I did not believe them. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is, having worked with the families now for the past 18 years, I think they identified the problem. It is all very nice for society to say that all victims are treated equally. I do not think that is entirely correct. I am a homicide detective; I am not a do-gooder or a bleeding heart. However race, and to a lesser degree, socioeconomic factors have impacted on the manner in which these matters have been investigated thank you rave.. thats awful stuff to read in this day and age... I do remember very well the missing 3 children..and I remember the man . as far as I know they have arrested him again...yes yes yes I can see the apathy if thats what it is...but we can change that rav en....speak up LOUD...write to every media outlet..look at the project they do more than just talk about Muslims...lets talk about this..its important to get these messages out.....we live in shocking times... so we have to work together to protect all children....they only have us dont they..... what we mustnt do is get bogged down with past mistakes... what we have to do is they dont keep happening....thats my point.. I want to change things.. I dont want to blast the past....what good does that do.. tell us raven what can we make that I ....do to change this we can challenge the media......they are the ones keeping this from us??....... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:12am cods wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:41pm:
The link of Raven's that you claim to have read is the exact same link that i posted that you claim to have "tried" to read but "would need a week to get through it and not sure I would be any the wiser(r)". I merely quoted Raven. Why lie, Cods? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:23am rhino wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Talk about confirmation bias! Tell me Rhino, why did you choose to omit this and rather copy and paste in an hypothesis?: "In all study jurisdictions, there were three consistent findings: Indigenous defendants were more likely than non-Indigenous offenders to be sentenced to prison. While Indigenous/non-Indigenous disparity was consistently more pronounced in the baseline statistics, it remained even after accounting for other influential sentencing determinants. These results support both differential involvement and negative discrimination hypotheses. Indigenous defendants were less likely than non-Indigenous offenders to be sentenced to a monetary order (compared to other non-imprisonment penalties). The initial baseline difference was reduced, but did not dissipate completely after controlling for other important sentencing factors. Although these results support the differential involvement hypothesis, they do not necessarily suggest negative or positive discrimination. This is because monetary orders may not always be harsher than other non-imprisonment orders. Indigenous defendants were sentenced to monetary orders of a lesser amount than non-Indigenous offenders. Adjusting for other important sentencing factors reduced initial differences, but evidence of a continuing direct effect was found. Thus, the results support both differential involvement and positive discrimination hypotheses." |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:24am mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:12am:
you are correct..I am lying.. this is what I took to be a link from mothra... Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Reply #146 - Yesterday at 5:48pm Quote mothra This is a good report investigating disparity between Indigenous and non-indigenous offenders: http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/1213/11-0910-FinalReport.pd... - Raven it is what I was replying to alinta about.... posted by mothra but referenced to raven.. my apologese...... I made a mistake...... and should have linked my comment to raven.... this from alinta...... who also got confused.. Quote:
I guess I am just not as smart as most... and will be more selective in the threads I join in in future. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:46am
It doesn't matter how smart you are, Cods. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Just don't lie whilst taking thinly veiled pot-shots at other posters and you won's be called on it. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:00am mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:46am:
well if you can tell me where I am SMART I could reply to that.. thinly veiled threats ::) ::) is that the same as thinly veiled pot-shots?.. its not what I say its how it is processed .... thats important to a conversation.. everything I say is wrong as far as you are concerned mothra...which is of course your absolute right... you treat a lot of what people say! with contempt.. I agree you are very dedicated to your causes.. but we all have our own special causes mine happens to be children all children...but those living in todays climate not years ago... I am sorry for what happened years ago but think its more about seeing we do better in the here and now... I like serious topics where the more noise and talking about can inspire change.. but I dont like being bullied for not agreeing with everyone... and thats how you make me feel... as you can see we all have opinions about each other... |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:09am cods wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:00am:
No Cods, when i agree with you i say so .. just as i commended a post you made the other day. I don't hold grudges. I tend to fight the ball, not the player. If i agree with i will say so ... if i do not agree with you, i will say so. Thinly veiled threats? Where? Has that sprung from the same fertile imagination that compelled you to accuse e of hacking you? Twice? As for bullying, only yesterday you were piling on to a post that wished me dead. People in glass houses, Cods. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:25am
White Man’s Manslaughter. Black Man’s Murder. White Man’s Riot. Black Man’s Uprising.
By Chris Graham on August 31, 2016 The violent clashes between police and protestors in Kalgoorlie yesterday followed the charging of a 55-year-old man with manslaughter over the death of a 14-year-old Aboriginal boy, Elijah Doughty. Twelve police officers were injured, dozens of Aboriginal people are expected to be arrested, police vehicles have been damaged, and court house windows were smashed. Media are calling it a riot. But one person’s riot is another person’s uprising, writes Chris Graham. The smartest thing Palm Islanders ever did was burn the local police station, court house and part of the police barracks to the ground. That was in Queensland in November 2004, after Senior Sergeant Chris Hurley – the most senior cop on the island, standing six foot six inches tall and weighing 115kg – beat an Aboriginal man to death on the floor of the local watch house. The victim, Mulrunji Doomadgee, was just over half Hurley’s size. Mulrunji’s ‘crime’ was to walk past Hurley – who was arresting another Aboriginal man – and swear, while singing, ‘Who let the dogs out’. Within an hour he was dead. Mulrunji suffered a ruptured spleen, broken ribs, and his liver was all but cleaved in two, held together by a couple of blood vessels. That’s the sort of fatal injuries you might expect to see in the victim of a plane crash. Mulrunji Doomadgee, beaten to death by Senior Sergeant Chris Hurley at the Palm Island police station in 2004. As Mulrunji’s body lay cooling in the morgue, Hurley was drinking beer and sharing a meal with police from the Ethical Standards Command, senior officers who’d been sent to the island specifically to ensure that the police investigation into one of their own was not corrupted. One of the lead detectives assigned to the case was Hurley’s close friend and neighbour, Senior Constable Darren Robinson. As tensions grew, and police spread rumours in the media that Mulrunji may have suffered his injuries prior to his arrest, calls for calm from community leaders grew. And then a forensic pathologist’s report was read out to Palm Islanders at a public meeting six days later. It found that Mulrunji had died after tripping up a single step, and falling onto a flat floor. Before that report, just one media outlet saw fit to cover the story, another non-descript report about another tragic ‘death in custody’. Within an hour of the report being read out, the Palm Island police station, court house and Hurley’s home were a smouldering mess. And suddenly, media were very, very interested in the story. Thousands of stories have been written since. A movie was made. We still read about it today. History now records the extraordinary attempted cover-up by police, for which, more than a decade later, no-one has ever been held responsible. We now know that the extent of police injuries during the uprising was a single bruised hip. And we also know that Palm Islanders didn’t fare so well. Patrick Bramwell, an Aboriginal man who lay next to Mulrunji as he writhed in agony in his cell and comforted him as he died, took his own life two years later. Mulrunji’s son also suicided, a week before the coronial inquest into his father’s death was to commence. Dozens of Aboriginal people were arrested and jailed. Most claim to have been assaulted in the process. Children were held at gunpoint by tactical police dressed in black, wearing masks. They sat scared in their homes with laser targets pointed at their heads. An entire community of Aboriginal people was terrorised by Queensland’s ‘finest’. The man who led the uprising, Lex Wotton, spent several years in jail. The morning after his conviction, Queensland Police announced bravery awards for officers who served on the island during the uprising. Six of the police who received those awards were adversely named in a subsequent Crime and Misconduct Commission report. No real sanctions have ever been imposed against them. For his part, Hurley went on to defraud Queensland taxpayers of more than $100,000, after being given an ex-gratia payment by the Police Service for property lost in the fire. And that was after he claimed $35,000 from his insurer for the very same property. After authorities initially decided Hurley had no case to answer, public outrage – driven in large part by outstanding reporting from The Australian newspaper – forced a criminal trial. Hurley was acquitted. He walked out of court and told media he now accepted responsibility for causing the death of Mulrunji. Hurley was moved to the Gold Coast, promoted briefly to Acting Inspector, and never lost a cent of pay. Indeed, he took extended leave, on full pay. The QPS was finally motivated to take action against Hurley when he targeted one of his own. In March this year, Hurley was charged with two counts of assault for pushing a female colleague. We would almost certainly know none of this if there had been no uprising on Palm Island. The death of Mulrunji Doomadgee would have been yet another quiet cover-up. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:27am
Of course, police are not in the frame over the death of 14-year-old Elijah Doughty in Kalgoorlie on Sunday. A 55-year-old man is accused of the crime. Police allege he used his vehicle to strike Elijah, who police say was riding a stolen motorbike. As the man faced court in Kalgoorlie yesterday, tensions boiled over.
He is entitled to his day in court, but there is seething anger in the Kalgoorlie community around the charge the man is facing – manslaughter. If you know anything about the history of Aboriginal deaths in this country, then you might understand the reaction of Kalgoorlie protestors. The charge Chris Hurley beat was also manslaughter. When John Pat, a 16-year-old Aboriginal boy was beaten to death in the streets of Roebourne in WA in 1983, five police officers were tried over the death. They also faced manslaughter. Like Hurley, they were also acquitted, and returned to active duty. When Mr Ward, an Aboriginal elder, was cooked to death in the back of a prison transport van on his way to Kalgoorlie – for the crime of drink driving – no-one was charged with anything, despite repeated warnings about the dangers of woefully inadequate prisoner transport. And that’s just Western Australia. When five white youths kicked an Aboriginal man – Kwementyaye Ryder – to death next to the Todd River in Alice Springs in 2009, they also faced manslaughter charges. They bucked the trend and were convicted. Their sentences ranged from 12 months to three and a half years, despite driving up and down the dry river bed targeting homeless Aboriginal people and firing a replica pistol at them. The judge in that trial – Brian Martin, the man appointed by the Turnbull government recently to lead the Royal Commission into the abuse of Aboriginal children in juvenile detention (he has since resigned) – described the boys as “otherwise of good character”. The response from those in power to the death of Mulrunji Doomadgee, and John Pat, and Mr Ward, and Kwementyaye Ryder, is precisely what Aboriginal people in Australia expect when one of their own is killed. They expect a manslaughter charge, if they’re lucky. And while those deaths are amongst the nation’s most infamous, they’re far from the only examples of the spectacular failures of our criminal justice systems when it comes to black lives snuffed out. There’s the Bowraville murders. Three children – Colleen Walker, 16, Evelyn Greenup, 4, and Clinton Speedie-Duroux, 15 – murdered by a local white man over a six month period in the early 1990s. The community was investigated for child abuse. Two decades later, the serial killer remains free. There’s Ms Dhu. She was arrested in August 2014 for outstanding fines and held at the South Hedland police station in WA. She tried repeatedly to convince police she was seriously ill. She died in agony two days later. Video footage of her being dragged around and dropped on the floor by police has been suppressed by the WA coroner. There’s Eddie Murray. He was found hanging from bars in the Wee Waa police station in 1981. Somehow he managed to smash his own sternum prior to his death. And Lloyd Boney. In 1987, he was found hanging by a football sock in a police cell in Brewarrina. The Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths In Custody was scathing of police conduct. Here was the police response – a video of officers at a costume party in 1992, mocking Boney’s death. And they say Australia has no history of blackface. And there’s Kwementyaye Briscoe. His crime was to be publicly drunk in Alice Springs in 2012. Taken into ‘protective custody’ he was dragged into a police cell, dumped on the floor and left to die while officers surfed the internet and listened to music. There are many, many, many more stories like this. David Gundy – an innocent man – gunned down in his own home by police who were looking for someone else. There’s Jack Sultan Page, an eight-year-old Aboriginal boy, run over and left to die in November 2014 in a hit and run by man who was on bail for drugs charges. The killer, Matthew Alexander, aged 23, was sentenced to six months home detention, and an 18-month suspended sentence. During the course of Alexander’s committal hearing, Jack’s mother was warned by Magistrate Greg Cavanagh, “You’ll be arrested if you don’t shut up. This is a court of law. Not a pub where people can yell at each other.” This is just a short roll call of the dead – a tiny proportion of the ever-growing list of Aboriginal people, many of them children, who have been brutally killed, then let down by the system they are told is there to protect them. So the question now becomes, will Elijah Doughty become the latest victim of a vulgar, corrupt, indifferent system? And the answer, sadly, is that Aboriginal people have no logical reason whatsoever to believe he won’t. There isn’t an Aboriginal family in this country untouched by state-sanctioned violence. They know that while black lives do matter, they don’t matter as much. They expect that the deaths of their loved ones will mean less. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:28am
The most senior police officer on the ground in Kalgoorlie yesterday was Acting Commander Darryl Gaunt. He has more than 30 years experience in the job, and told media he’s “never seen anything like this before”.
Describing some social media commentary as “disgusting and racist”, he added, “It has absolutely inflamed the situation, without a doubt.” And yet, a white man allegedly killed a black child, but the people being cast as animals in Kalgoorlie this morning are those who reacted to a well-worn history of brutal oppression by clashing with police, and smashing some windows. This is despite the reality that the victim’s family, and Aboriginal elders, supported police and tried to calm protesters. Those flames were still being fanned overnight – here’s some posts from Kalgoorlie’s infamous ‘Crimes Whinges and Whines’ Facebook page which comes with this description: “Warning: Posts and comments here may be offensive to some people. We encourage anyone who is offended by this group to remove themselves as it is a closed group and you have the option of leaving.” In the midst of all this, Elijah Doughty, a 14-year-old boy who dreamed of being a star footballer, is lying dead in a morgue. He was someone’s cousin, nephew, brother, grandson, friend. Those condemning protestors in Kalgoorlie would do well to remember that. And they would do well to remember that the system entrusted to deliver justice for this young boy is the same justice system that freed the killers of John Pat. It’s the same justice system that saw no response, no accountability, for the death of Mr Ward. It’s the same system that ignored the cries of Ms Dhu. Nauru-children-jailedAnd it comes from the same nation that does this to children on Nauru, and men and women seeking asylum. All eyes are now on that system, and how it responds to Elijah’s death. None of this means that Aboriginal people can expect justice will be delivered. It wasn’t for Mulrunji, for John Pat, for Mr Ward, for Kwementyaye Ryder, for the Bowraville children and for many, many others. But it does mean that a system which has brutalised Aboriginal people for more than 200 years will come under far greater scrutiny. The fact is, violence sometimes is the answer. It was our answer in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Vietnam. It’s our answer on Manus and Nauru. It is frequently our answer when it suits white interests. State sanctioned violence is carried out in all our names, for all our benefit. While yesterday’s violence was not state sanctioned, this morning, you’re only reading about it because Aboriginal people fought back. Just like on Palm Island. Unless you’ve lived an Aboriginal life – and experienced that violence – you’re in no position to pass judgement on the response to it. https://newmatilda.com/2016/08/31/the-kalgoorlie-uprising-a-rational-response-to-another-black-death/ |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:23am rhino wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:24am mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:23am:
Up for Rhino ... you must have missed it so i'll bump it for you, shall i? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:48am
You are done Mothra, you posted an article which supports the opposite of which you claim but which supports what I have been claiming all along. You cant backpedal fast enough to get out of this one.
Bye bye Mothra ;) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Rhino on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:51am
Lol, what a maroon, of course indigenous are more likely to go to prison even though they are dealt with more leniently in general.
Their criminal records are much more extensive. Game set match, Rhino. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:02pm rhino wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:48am:
Curious analysis, after being exposed. Seems you are desperately trying to evade the question. Tell me Rhino, why did you choose to omit the consistent overall findings and rather copy and paste in an hypothesis? And why only include the hypothesis that adheres to your confirmation bias? You didnt feel inclined to post in this one: The Negative Discrimination Hypothesis This hypothesis argues that Indigenous status directly impacts sentencing, resulting in harsher outcomes. In other words, the baseline sentencing disparity noted in the government court data (see above) is not attributable to differences in other influential sentencing determinates (e.g. past and present offending) as suggested by the differential involvement hypothesis. Developed in early United States sentencing research, the theoretical foundations for this hypothesis are based in the conflict school of criminology, where sentencing discrimination was thought to be inevitable for minority groups because they posed a ‘threat’ to the privileged position of whites in American society (Peterson and Hagan, 1984; Hawkins, 1987; Steen et al., 2005). Applying the conflict perspective in an Australian context, harsher sentencing of Indigenous peoples would be predicted, given this country’s history of colonisation and the continuing oppression of Indigenous people as evidenced by their marginalised and disadvantaged social, political and economic status (Jeffries and Bond, 2009: 50). More recently, the negative discrimination hypothesis has been theoretically positioned within the focal concerns perspective (Bond and Jeffries, 2011a: 2). Research suggests that sentencing decisions are guided by a number of judicial focal concerns, particularly: offender blameworthiness and harm caused by the offence; community protection or risk; and practical constraints presented by individual offenders, organisational resources, political and community expectations (Steffensmeier, Ulmer and Kramer, 1998: 766-767). Similar concerns have been found among Australian judges (see Mackenzie, 2005). http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/1213/11-0910-FinalReport.pdf |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:02pm rhino wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 11:51am:
You didn't understand the report at all, did you. The reason given for the increased prison sentences and the context in which that reason was given is that non-Aboriginal people are more likely to receive fines than prison terms. It's quite clearly stated. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:42pm
Here is an example:
Courts 'harsher' on Aboriginal driving offences ABORIGINAL offenders convicted of driving while disqualified in remote and regional NSW are being sentenced to jail at three times the state average. The Aboriginal Legal Service has accused country magistrates of falling into "errant, idiosyncratic and overly harsh sentencing patterns". That assessment is based on an analysis of 264 cases involving Aboriginal clients charged with driving while disqualified who had been sentenced between 2006 and 2012. The exercise revealed 46 per cent had been given prison sentences. That figure rose to 60 per cent when suspended sentences were taken into account. The study, which included all matters in which the ALS has acted in Dubbo and NSW circuit courts since 2006, showed that not only were jail sentences for indigenous people handed out more often, but they were also for longer than the state average. The study covered local and district courts in central-west towns including Dunedoo, Wellington, Warren, Peak Hill, Nyngan, Narromine, Coonabarabran, Forbes, Parkes, Mudgee and Gilgandra. The jailing rate for the ALS Dubbo clients was 46 per cent, the study showed, whereas of all people convicted in local courts for driving while disqualified across NSW between April 2008 and March 2012 the jailing rate was only 15 per cent, according to the Judicial Commission of NSW. More than one-third of the ALS clients in the Dubbo region who received jail terms were sentenced to terms of imprisonment of 12 months, compared with a 26 per cent state average. And 17 per cent were sent to jail for 18 months, compared with only 8 per cent of the general population. Almost 60 per cent of ALS clients sentenced in Dubbo and circuit courts received jail terms of 12 months and more, compared with a state average of 46 per cent. A large number of Aborigines , who are grossly over-represented in the prison system, are serving sentences for petty offences or what the ALS describes as "poverty offences" such as driving while disqualified. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/courts-harsher-on-aboriginal-driving-offences/news-story/12ff7e6a67181b23db8ceb9c9c69a759 |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 12:55pm
And:
The Position with Minor Offences. The exorbitant crime and imprisonment rates recorded in these studies are not confined to serious or violent crimes. At least in recent times, a high proportion of Aboriginal offences has been of a minor, repetitive, sometimes even trivial character.[11] The New South Wales Anti-Discrimination Board in a study of street offences by Aborigines found that: in 10 NSW towns with high Aboriginal populations, Aborigines charged with minor offences in public places greatly outnumber non-Aborigines. The behaviour resulting in the charges was in the main or’ a trivial nature,the majority of offences involving the use of unseemly words. Penalties, too, have a more severe impact on Aboriginal people. An appreciable number of those convicted and fined in the 10 towns in this study went to jail rather than pay the fine, even though jail is not a punishment option available under the Offences in Public Places Act.[12] In South Australia between 1 January 1983–30 June 1983, 34% of all persons convicted of ‘drunkenness’, ‘minor street offences’ an ‘offences against order’ were Aboriginal.[13] In country areas a similar pattern emerges to that in NSW: A study of court records ... show that courts servicing communities with a substantial Aboriginal population ... have markedly higher rates of imprisonment for vagrancy offences and fines and imprisonment for public drunkenness offenders than other courts. An Aboriginal defendant charged with offensive behaviour before the country courts in this State is five times more likely to receive a prison sentence and six times more likely to be refused bail than non-Aboriginals.[14] http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/17.%20Aboriginal%20Customary%20laws%20and%20the%20Criminal%20Justice%20System/statistical-background |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:33pm Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
They're only Boongs, Aussie. They don't know any better. I blame their filthy apologists. You? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:44pm mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 10:09am:
me throwing stones.......I do not know what to say.... I have apologised... for a comment you took offense at....the slightest thing I get wrong.. about a link and you explode I do not engage with you anymore... just what is it you want mothra????>.. spit it out... I dont tell lies I make mistakes...as I did about that link...whats so terrible about that???????????????????????????? dont pretend because you said.. "Good Post" that excuses everything else I have taken from you... I need neither your applause or bullying....thank you. you have turned me off several topics on here.. because I find you abrasive... and all that C&p is not my idea of debate..and moving forward |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by mothra on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm
Quite the dummy spit, Cods.
So you always do this when you are proven wrong? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:55pm mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm:
which part did I GET WRONG this time? ::) |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:09pm mothra wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:48pm:
Oh no, Cods does it anyway. She's quite flexible that way. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:19pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:09pm:
now now pet back to the oral sex thread.. you are at your best there. I am sure.. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Frank on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:33pm mothra wrote on Mar 18th, 2017 at 7:39am:
Michael Brull, eh? In 2010. Who else has he been hysterical about recently, one wonders, in New Matilda..... He's a right Mothra, our Michael. Anyway, the ABC reported at the time: Kloeden, Hird and Spears were each sentenced to six years in jail, with a non-parole period of four years. Mr Ryder's mother, Theresa Ryder, walked out during the sentencing, saying loudly: "Always good on the outside, inside there's racism straight out." But outside the court, Ms Ryder said she was satisfied, especially after the family of one of the men came to offer their condolences. "They come up and said they were sorry and comforted me and I appreciate them for doing that to me and it sort of made me feel satisfied. "I guess I've been waiting for that. Mr Ryder's sister-in-law, Karen Liddle, said the family is happy with the sentences but there are no winners. "I feel sad for everybody: us for our loss and also those families too for how foolish those boys were," she said. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Unforgiven on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:34pm cods wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 1:55pm:
Let's narrow this down to what Cods got right. This usually reduces the workload considerably. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Frank on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:36pm
Also in the news in 2010:
APRIL 9 2010 Alcohol 'primary cause' of Aboriginal violence Ari Sharp INDIGENOUS people are up to 20 times more likely than the rest of the population to commit violent crime, according to a new study that finds alcohol is the biggest risk factor. http://www.smh.com.au/national/alcohol-primary-cause-of-aboriginal-violence-20100408-rv67.html |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Unforgiven on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:38pm
Alcohol is also the biggest risk factor in pom and closet-pom violent crimes.
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Karnal on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:44pm Unforgiven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:34pm:
There was a post in 2010, I believe. I forget what it was about now. Not oral sex, shurely. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:46pm Unforgiven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:34pm:
not the bits I got right about you though... sweetheart! keep those fingers crossed I dont let the cat out of the bag... just get me riled and BINGO.. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:47pm Unforgiven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:38pm:
and blue people with pointed heads.. so I have been told. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:48pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:44pm:
no pet thats your pet subject everyone knows that... in fact did you say you were an authority .. I am sure it was you! |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Unforgiven on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:54pm cods wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:47pm:
That just exemplifies Cods' gullibility. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by cods on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:23pm Unforgiven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:54pm:
not really pet.. its what we gain from your massive posts. as well as your pic..its not hard to do! |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gnads on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:45pm Aussie wrote on Mar 20th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
What a load of shyte Aussie. Where is that happening? I'd say you know naff all about who's terrorising who in their homes. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Unforgiven on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:49pm cods wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:23pm:
Gnads, darling, liberate yourself from the wood-shed. |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gnads on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:59pm Raven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 2:05am:
Surely you jest? |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Gnads on Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:00pm Unforgiven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:49pm:
I'd say liberate yourself from the Gin bottle you ol' cupboard lush you responded with the wrong quote/post. ;D |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Aussie on Mar 21st, 2017 at 7:43pm Gnads wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 6:45pm:
Ima glad you asked. It is the incident under discussion.....initiated by the OP. I recommend you read a Thread before posting as though nothing happened before your magnificence turned up. Link. Go Gnads, you bloody bewdy!!!! :D |
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Title: Re: Top blokes, totally out of character Post by Frank on Mar 21st, 2017 at 8:09pm Unforgiven wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:38pm:
Still INDIGENOUS people are up to 20 times more likely than the rest of the population to commit violent crime. Proportion. You wouldn't have a clue about what proportion means, ya mad smurf. |
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