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General Discussion >> State and Local >> Return to SA?
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Message started by augcaesarustus on Oct 10th, 2016 at 1:49pm

Title: Return to SA?
Post by augcaesarustus on Oct 10th, 2016 at 1:49pm
Hello Territorians,

Just for a hypothetical argument and out of curiosity: would you mind if the NT was return to South Australia, but on the condition that the NT was guaranteed self-government (i.e. by the Parliament of South Australia)?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Raven on Oct 13th, 2016 at 6:59pm
Nope
Bring on statehood

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by miketrees on Oct 13th, 2016 at 7:05pm
How the hell can you have self government and be returned to SA?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by augcaesarustus on Oct 13th, 2016 at 9:00pm

miketrees wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 7:05pm:
How the hell can you have self government and be returned to SA?


In a hypothetical situation, it would be done as an agreement between South Australia and Northern Territory, that the latter would be conferred with self-governance by legislation as a condition for being 'symbolically' returned to South Australia.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by miketrees on Oct 14th, 2016 at 6:54am
SA has nothing to offer the NT

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by UnSubRocky on Nov 4th, 2016 at 11:51pm
Would probably call for a name change to the state. Central Australia, or something like that?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Unforgiven on Nov 5th, 2016 at 1:27am

Auggie wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 1:49pm:
Hello Territorians,

Just for a hypothetical argument and out of curiosity: would you mind if the NT was return to South Australia, but on the condition that the NT was guaranteed self-government (i.e. by the Parliament of South Australia)?


Can you take Tasmania, Victoria and Queensland as well?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by UnSubRocky on Nov 5th, 2016 at 10:23pm

Unforgiven wrote on Nov 5th, 2016 at 1:27am:

Auggie wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 1:49pm:
Hello Territorians,

Just for a hypothetical argument and out of curiosity: would you mind if the NT was return to South Australia, but on the condition that the NT was guaranteed self-government (i.e. by the Parliament of South Australia)?


Can you take Tasmania, Victoria and Queensland as well?


What? And make NSW feel even more inferior than it already is?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:30pm

Unforgiven wrote on Nov 5th, 2016 at 1:27am:

Auggie wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 1:49pm:
Hello Territorians,

Just for a hypothetical argument and out of curiosity: would you mind if the NT was return to South Australia, but on the condition that the NT was guaranteed self-government (i.e. by the Parliament of South Australia)?


Can you take Tasmania, Victoria and Queensland as well?


Sure, why not?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:31pm

miketrees wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 7:05pm:
How the hell can you have self government and be returned to SA?


The Federal government could repeal the Acceptance Act, which transferred the NT from SA. If they repealed the Act, then the NT would constitutionally belong to SA.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:32pm

miketrees wrote on Oct 14th, 2016 at 6:54am:
SA has nothing to offer the NT


That's not the point: it used to belong to us; the Constitution specifically states "and the northern territory of South Australia".

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 4th, 2016 at 11:51pm:
Would probably call for a name change to the state. Central Australia, or something like that?


I could live with that; but I would prefer the 'north territory of South Australia'.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:34pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 1:49pm:
Hello Territorians,

Just for a hypothetical argument and out of curiosity: would you mind if the NT was return to South Australia, but on the condition that the NT was guaranteed self-government (i.e. by the Parliament of South Australia)?


On second thought, I wouldn't grant northern territory self-government; we would include NT and SA MPs in the same Parliament.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm
Doesn't SA have enough trouble trying to run it's own State? Let alone taking on the responsibility of another people way up there in the far north - that should have developed into a State of their own accord by now.
SA trying to take on too much for a Territory that is giving so little?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:41pm

Vulcan wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
Doesn't SA have enough trouble trying to run it's own State? Let alone taking on the responsibility of another people way up there in the far north - that should have developed into a State of their own accord by now.
SA trying to take on too much for a Territory that is giving so little?


By reducing the role of the Federal Government, SA can take on any State in Australia. The problem is that the States are strangled by the feds through taxes and grants.

NT is a territory for a specific reason - it is sparsely populated and doesn't have enough population to warrant Statehood.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:48pm

Auggie wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:41pm:

Vulcan wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
Doesn't SA have enough trouble trying to run it's own State? Let alone taking on the responsibility of another people way up there in the far north - that should have developed into a State of their own accord by now.
SA trying to take on too much for a Territory that is giving so little?


By reducing the role of the Federal Government, SA can take on any State in Australia. The problem is that the States are strangled by the feds through taxes and grants.

NT is a territory for a specific reason - it is sparsely populated and doesn't have enough population to warrant Statehood.


It took me a while to figure out how to do that quote thing in reply.
Yes - I do agree with you on that. By reducing Federal domination, the States would indeed do a lot better. They only seem to get empowered against the Feds when they are all of the same party in opposition to the Federal party.
ie: all ALP States v NLP Federal.
Power to the States.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 1:03pm

Vulcan wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:48pm:

Auggie wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:41pm:

Vulcan wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
Doesn't SA have enough trouble trying to run it's own State? Let alone taking on the responsibility of another people way up there in the far north - that should have developed into a State of their own accord by now.
SA trying to take on too much for a Territory that is giving so little?


By reducing the role of the Federal Government, SA can take on any State in Australia. The problem is that the States are strangled by the feds through taxes and grants.

NT is a territory for a specific reason - it is sparsely populated and doesn't have enough population to warrant Statehood.


It took me a while to figure out how to do that quote thing in reply.
Yes - I do agree with you on that. By reducing Federal domination, the States would indeed do a lot better. They only seem to get empowered against the Feds when they are all of the same party in opposition to the Federal party.
ie: all ALP States v NLP Federal.
Power to the States.


Exactly, and the best thing is for NT and SA to amalgamate and reduce the number of governments and politicians.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:36am
Then we could have just three States. Western, Central & Eastern Australia. thats if we merged Qld, Nsw & Vic together as well.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by miketrees on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:48am

Then we could have just three States. Western, Central & Eastern Australia. thats if we merged Qld, Nsw & Vic together as well.


And give Tasmania to NZ

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by miketrees on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:49am


How about we saw off Northern Australia and make a state of that.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by BigOl64 on Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:41am

miketrees wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:49am:
How about we saw off Northern Australia and make a state of that.



How's about fkken no?


How about you southerners stop dictating your pig ignorant opinions to the north?


If the NT wants to be part of SA or even their own state then fine they are happy as they are then so be it.


Same applies to North Queensland for that matter.



Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 4th, 2017 at 11:29am

BigOl64 wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:41am:

miketrees wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:49am:
How about we saw off Northern Australia and make a state of that.



How's about fkken no?


How about you southerners stop dictating your pig ignorant opinions to the north?


If the NT wants to be part of SA or even their own state then fine they are happy as they are then so be it.


Same applies to North Queensland for that matter.


I am sympathetic to the concerns of Nth Queenslanders, but I don't believe that your own State is the answer. There needs to be more decentralization toward the States and local councils. Maybe you could think about having the State government decentralize more responsibilities toward to local councils in Nth Qld?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by BigOl64 on Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:13pm

Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 11:29am:

BigOl64 wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:41am:

miketrees wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:49am:
How about we saw off Northern Australia and make a state of that.



How's about fkken no?


How about you southerners stop dictating your pig ignorant opinions to the north?


If the NT wants to be part of SA or even their own state then fine they are happy as they are then so be it.


Same applies to North Queensland for that matter.


I am sympathetic to the concerns of Nth Queenslanders, but I don't believe that your own State is the answer. There needs to be more decentralization toward the States and local councils. Maybe you could think about having the State government decentralize more responsibilities toward to local councils in Nth Qld?



The various state governments tried a bit of decentralisation and failed.



The north will only prosper when we have true representation and a government that gives a sh1t about the people, not some self serving deadsh1ts who gold plate one small corner of the state.




Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:55pm

BigOl64 wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:13pm:

Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 11:29am:

BigOl64 wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:41am:

miketrees wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:49am:
How about we saw off Northern Australia and make a state of that.



How's about fkken no?


How about you southerners stop dictating your pig ignorant opinions to the north?


If the NT wants to be part of SA or even their own state then fine they are happy as they are then so be it.


Same applies to North Queensland for that matter.


I am sympathetic to the concerns of Nth Queenslanders, but I don't believe that your own State is the answer. There needs to be more decentralization toward the States and local councils. Maybe you could think about having the State government decentralize more responsibilities toward to local councils in Nth Qld?



The various state governments tried a bit of decentralisation and failed.



The north will only prosper when we have true representation and a government that gives a sh1t about the people, not some self serving deadsh1ts who gold plate one small corner of the state.


I'll promise to ensure decentralization to Nth Qld and give them special status. I'll also create a Regional Council chamber in the Parliament to represent all regions in Qld. They will be elected directly by the people and must cast a vote as one bloc on behalf of the region.

Can I count on your vote?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by greggerypeccary on Dec 4th, 2017 at 1:01pm

Can't we just give the NT to someone else?

Indonesia, maybe?

:-/

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 4th, 2017 at 2:10pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 1:01pm:
Can't we just give the NT to someone else?

Indonesia, maybe?

:-/


Why?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by greggerypeccary on Dec 4th, 2017 at 2:38pm

Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 2:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 1:01pm:
Can't we just give the NT to someone else?

Indonesia, maybe?

:-/


Why?


It's a bit of an embarrassment to the rest of the country, don't you think?




Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 4th, 2017 at 3:10pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 2:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 1:01pm:
Can't we just give the NT to someone else?

Indonesia, maybe?

:-/


Why?


It's a bit of an embarrassment to the rest of the country, don't you think?


Not at all. You know, NT used to belong to South Australia, which at the time was the most enlightened State in the Commonwealth. The first telegraph line in Australia was built in SA and ran through NT and connected the rest of the empire. It, along with SA, was enlightened.

That changed when the SA government surrendered NT to the Commonwealth - biggest mistake SA ever made; SA should've never given it up. It is rightfully SA's. 

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:51pm
I can see where BigOL64 is coming from. Talk of Queensland splitting into two is being taken seriously. There are other parts of Australia that could go it alone by themselves. While others would suffer as they would be less self sufficient.
So which way to go?  Make Australia into One Nation?
Or slice it all up into smaller more compact States?

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 5th, 2017 at 12:00pm

Vulcan wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
I can see where BigOL64 is coming from. Talk of Queensland splitting into two is being taken seriously. There are other parts of Australia that could go it alone by themselves. While others would suffer as they would be less self sufficient.
So which way to go?  Make Australia into One Nation?
Or slice it all up into smaller more compact States?


The issue is, Vulcan, that the more States we have, the more politicians in Canberra we need to have. The Senate has be at least half the size of the House of Reps, according to the Constitution, so 12 senators for each new State would put the Senate at more than 100 senators, and more than 200 members of the House of Representatives. This would just simply give more power to Canberra at the expense of the States.

Unless of course, we're willing to amend the Constitution to remove the so-called 'nexus' which was tried in 1970s. But, I don't think the people would want that.

This is the issue with having more States. What is the better option, given our unique Constitution, is to have greater decentralisation within the existing States.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 5th, 2017 at 1:52pm
What if North Queensland becomes a new State (would southern Queensland remain as Queensland?)? Would we see a domino effect? Maybe to accommodate more states, we would need a restructuring of Parliament as it would not be suitable to squeeze so many more into Parliament House. But if for hypothetical instance. Australia did fracture into another 5 States. What then would happen, especially in the likelihood that more States will appear in the following decade? I know the USA was a whole number of different states that became United. Australia seems to have been originally united to begin with (as far as I know) as One Nation and mostly empowered by Federal level more so than lower levels for starters. I know that Northern WA could go it alone. Some places in NSW.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:39pm

Vulcan wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 1:52pm:
What if North Queensland becomes a new State (would southern Queensland remain as Queensland?)? Would we see a domino effect? Maybe to accommodate more states, we would need a restructuring of Parliament as it would not be suitable to squeeze so many more into Parliament House. But if for hypothetical instance. Australia did fracture into another 5 States. What then would happen, especially in the likelihood that more States will appear in the following decade? I know the USA was a whole number of different states that became United. Australia seems to have been originally united to begin with (as far as I know) as One Nation and mostly empowered by Federal level more so than lower levels for starters. I know that Northern WA could go it alone. Some places in NSW.


The solution in that case would be to reduce the number of senators each State would choose. The problem is that this would favour the big two parties, so I don't think this is a viable solution.

The best situation is to retain 6 six States, amalgamate NT and SA, and abolish ACT government.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:42pm
Abolish ACT government. Wow that is a big call. You realise it is the only place Politicians can rip off the country - legally.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by AugCaesarustus on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:45pm

Vulcan wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
Abolish ACT government. Wow that is a big call. You realise it is the only place Politicians can rip off the country - legally.


That's why we need more masochists in power.

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by Vulcan on Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:16pm
Haha!

Title: Re: Return to SA?
Post by BigOl64 on Feb 11th, 2018 at 10:43am

Vulcan wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 1:52pm:
What if North Queensland becomes a new State (would southern Queensland remain as Queensland?)? Would we see a domino effect? Maybe to accommodate more states, we would need a restructuring of Parliament as it would not be suitable to squeeze so many more into Parliament House. But if for hypothetical instance. Australia did fracture into another 5 States. What then would happen, especially in the likelihood that more States will appear in the following decade? I know the USA was a whole number of different states that became United. Australia seems to have been originally united to begin with (as far as I know) as One Nation and mostly empowered by Federal level more so than lower levels for starters. I know that Northern WA could go it alone. Some places in NSW.



Not "what if", but when, after getting screwed over by puddle duck and her labor government we will be seeking independence sooner rather than later.



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